Torch selection for home use

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I am new to the board, so hope this was the right location to place this question. I am looking to purchase my first cutting torch and was hoping to get some advice – I am trying to research on my own also. I have used them on a very limited basis years ago, so pretend you are dealing with a total rookie. A little background on my intended use. It will be for home hobby use, primarily cutting and heating, but welding and brazing are also potentials. I plan to incorporate it into my blacksmithing tool bag as well as for other general uses. I have settled on 80 cf oxy and 75 cf acetylene tanks as these are the largest I can get filled locally without leasing.  I thought I might add propane into the line-up at some point also, since I'll be heating and cutting most of the time. Now I need the torch to go with them – I’m on a budget, but don’t want junk.These are the options I'm currently looking at, but defenitely open to other suggestions. I'd appreciate any advise on what and where to purchase for my needs. 1) I found a Victor Cutskill® Welding and Cutting Outfit No. 0384-2540   http://www.buyweld.com/0384-2500.html   . Its on sale for $178, about $200 shipped.2) I have my grandfaterhs OLD set, victor torch, with a victor oxy regulator, and airco acetylene regulator I could send out for rebuild, but with hoses and shipping would be similar or more cost than the new victor unit I mentioned.3) I know Harbor Freight is often frowned on, but I have seen good reviews for their torch kit, which I could get locally, out the door for about $140.
Reply:Can't go wrong with victor! I run primarily Harris torches but I do have a victor setup I also use. I have run the harbor freight systems and they aren't too bad but for the extra couple bucks I'd definitely stick to name brand stuff!How about a pic of the victor setup you already have? Most of the time the torch bodies don't need to be rebuilt because of age, everything is built to hold up well, the regulators may just need a good cleaning or might even work still if they have been kept dry.And on a side note, I'd love to hear about your blacksmithing set up! I just got into it myself and I'm having a blast with it!Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Some of the Smith (Miller) kits are very reasonably priced at present.https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/ei...EF:X:MB54A-300"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Send the old Victor gear to https://www.regulatortorchrepair.com/ and get it rebuilt. It'll come back like new. If it's good Victor gear, it's probably much nicer than the kit you mentioned. The airco could be nice or cheap, depending. If it costs too much to rebuild, buy something else. I've had great luck on craigslist buying used regs then having them rebuilt. Buy a type T hose and you'll be able to run propane with the same regulator and a couple new tips. Save the acetylene for welding, propane is way cheaper for heating/cutting. Do not buy the HF, there are issues that cause safety concerns with its build.
Reply:Newer Smith has lifetime warranty.
Reply:I'll agree with everything said so far. I'll 2nd the suggestion on sending the gear to Reg and torch repair for a rebuild. They do very nice work. They'll also tell you if it's just not cost effective to rebuild something, say your old Airco. They may have a rebuilt one that they can sell at a decent price or suggest a new reg. Many places just either want to sell you new gear or rebuild your old stuff not caring what happens to you in the long run. Jim at Reg and Torch isn't like that.As far as brands, Victor, Harris, Smith, are all good brands. I'd look at what your local place stocks as far as tips. Most places keep Victor stuff on hand. That means if you have a Smith torch, and fubar a tip, say you drop something heavy on it by accident, you are stuck waiting for mail order. Most of my stuff is Victor simply because that's what I can source local easily. However I also have a Harris cutting rig in propane, and the tech school uses all Smith torches in the OA welding area.Avoid the HF units. I've seen guys buy 3 or 4 sets all at the same time. Later when they need new tips, even though the HF sets are victor clones, the victor tips will not fit all the torches. The tolerances are just out enough on some that the Victor replacement parts don't fit and work right. Consider them a "disposable" torch set.Propane vs Acetylene, tough call. I'm looking right now at setting up a dedicated propane rig for my forge work. That's so I can run the rosebud and bigger tips than I can off my 75 cf acetylene cylinder. For heating / cutting propane has a lot of advantages. However you can't weld with it, only solder braze. No big deal for me since I use mig or tig for all my welds. If I needed to use the torch to weld, I'd have to give up the rosebud and bigger tips with my small cylinder to use acetylene.Since it sounds like your old hose is shot, I'd go with propane rated hose since it will do both propane and acetylene. If your old Airco isn't worth rebuilding, I might just invest in a new propane reg if you choose to go that route. Then all you would need are the propane tip for the torch and a #6 or #8 rosebud for heating and possibly a few standard tips if you don't have any already.Also if funds allow, you might look at the gas savers. They allow you to shut off and relight your torch without changing any settings. I've seen a few forge guys with these setups and they are sweet! Most have the gas saver set up on a dedicated stand that holds the torch. When ready, you pick up the torch and light it from the pilot light ( assuming you already set things up in advance). Then when done heating, you simply set the torch down on the gas saver, and it shuts off the gas flow on both O2 and fuel gas to the torch. When you need it again, you just pick it back up and relight it. The guy in this video is using one..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If your doing light to medium work the cut skill will do fine. I have that same set, it's nice for brazing because it's nice and small. It cuts just like any other torch I've used, although 1/4" is the thickest material I've cut with it.Thermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:Wow - thanks for all of the responses.Dantheharleyman99 - I can try to get some pics of the old set, but I am unfamiliar enough with torches and regulators, that I really just wouldn't feel comfortable using them without a rebuild, and I know I have broken and missing guages. As far as my blacksmithing set up goes, I built a coal forge out of scraps bassically, powered by an exhuast fan, and am using a side draft hood I also made.   Works pretty well for what I do. You should check out iforgeiron.com if you haven't already.Oldendum - thanks for the link. Theres not much info, at least at my level of understanding, on the difference between those kits. There are several and they start at $185 and go up, but I can't tell the difference between them. I'd certainly consider Smith, my one concern would be my LWS carries Victor.DeuceTrinal - I have seen a few reccomendations for them on here, and have actually already contacted them to get an idea on the cost. Right now I only have the torch with cutting attachment and the two regulators, so after the rebuild, I'll still need to by everything else, hoses, tips, striker, tip cleaner, etc and  am just trying to weigh my options.DSW - I have that video downlaoded, I think it is a good one for a few reasons.  I also want to get a good compressor and air tools one day too. The gas saver is another on my wish list. Like I mentioned above, this old "set" really isn't much of a set anymore, I'll be needing hoses and tips, which is one reason a new kit seems a little more economical than rebuilding what I have then buying the other pieces seperately.Since we are on the subject - In addtion to the torch, which tips would you guys reccomend?Austin - I will be primarily cutting and heat 1/2 inch and under. Might occasionaly go up to 1 inch and rarely cut thicker, but would like the option.
Reply:Here's a brochure for the various Smith/Miller outfits.  The medium duty ones on page 7 are really reasonably priced at some places.  They are the ones with the CW5A torch (3 year warranty).  The ones on page 6 have the WH100 handle and have a lifetime warranty.http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_...oductGuide.pdf"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Tips will greatly depend on what fuel you choose to use. Acetylene is limiting due to the 1/7th rule. With acetylene, even the smallest rosebud will over draw a 75 cf cylinder of acetylene. Used for very brief periods it is doable, but if you over draw the cylinder and pull the acetone up out of the cylinder, you run the risk of damaging the hoses and reg internals. That pretty much puts you right back here again. Same goes with cutting tips. The really small tips are usable with that size cylinder. A 0 size top is borderline with that size cylinder if cranked all the way up and is about the max size that I'd suggest. Either it or the 00 one size down will cut 1/2" no problem.If you want to weld, the chart below gives some rough ideas what size tip is needed to weld what thickness material with acetylene.http://dennisalbert.com/Welding/WeldingTipGuide.htmHere's a chart that might help. If you look at the right hand side it shows acteylene used in SCFH or cubit feet per hour. Your 75 cf cylinder is good for about 10 cf per hour, so use that to roughly gauge which tips will work for what you want.Propane doesn't have the withdrawal limitations. You can use a rosebud with propane with no issues. I'd suggest a size 6 or size 8 ( larger of the two), depending on how big a piece you need to heat regularly. I plan on getting the 6 when I get mine in a few weeks. Down side to propane heating tips is that most places don't stock them. Some stock  propane cutting tips, but usually not in a huge selection. Some places anything propane has to be ordered.You'll find a lot of guys over on IFI from here. Besides myself I know Shortfuse ( arkie), Jlames, Thor and at least a half dozen others who don't come to mind right now post  there.As far as differences in kits, besides the obvious ones like how many tips are included in each kit, the regs and torch handles are often different. When you start moving up in price, you start moving to heavier duty regs and torches. Most inexpensive kits are single stage regulators. Most bigger top end kits have higher flowing 2 stage regs for example. Torch handles get bigger and are designed for larger flow rates. If you start pumping out preheat with a big propane rosebud, you need a handle with large bores to handle the gas flow ( most big tips want 3/8" gas lines for example) The torches are also more heavily built to withstand heavy use all day long on job sites vs occasional use in a small shop or from a hobbyist.In your case I doubt you need anything super heavy duty. In fact huge torches can be limiting on the bottom end as far as tips. They really don't expect you to weld sheet metal with a torch handle designed to pump out 150 or more cubic feet an hour of fuel gas running rosebuds. In fact if you plan to do a lot of welding vs heating large areas with a rosebud, some of the really small "aircrafter" torches that were originally designed for guys welding aircraft parts day in day out might be a better option.  They are a bit harder to locate as they are not as commonly used today as they were in the past when OA was used commercially. They also aren't designed for heating with a rosebud or doing a ton of cutting ( though some do have a cutting attachment). If you were planning to OA weld your own aircraft, I'd point you that way..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:What he said^  If you are missing parts and need to rebuild the whole set you have... Then yes, you will be better off getting a new medium duty set up for cost purposes. But I wouldn't get rid of the old set, you may want to fix em up one day!Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:I wish I would have seen the charts before, I don't know if I would have even bothered with buying the 75 CF Acetylene tank, seems pretty limited. Propane will probably be my primary. Oh well, live and learn. I guess the key will be not to use any tips that exceed the draw limit of about 10 cfm so I don't damage anything.
Reply:That's CFH - cubic feet per hour."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by Eddie MullinsI wish I would have seen the charts before, I don't know if I would have even bothered with buying the 75 CF Acetylene tank, seems pretty limited. Propane will probably be my primary. Oh well, live and learn. I guess the key will be not to use any tips that exceed the draw limit of about 10 cfm so I don't damage anything.
Reply:Also it's possible to exceed that limit within reason for short periods of time. That's how I can get away running a rosebud on my 75 cf cylinder. I just try to limit the time I run it to no more than say 3 or 4 minutes tops, then let the cylinder sit and "recover". I believe my rosebud is a #6 Victor, so that would consume about 14 to 40 CFH roughly.  So far no issues as long as I use common sense. However I don't often need the rosebud. Most stuff I need to heat with a torch is small. Usually rivets or tenons I want to head off, or something I want a concentrated heat on to do a bend. In those cases either a good size welding tip, or even the cutting torch ( being careful not to hit the O2 lever) does the job just fine.I used to have a link to a much better chart on tip sizes etc, but the company who had it posted on their web site has gone out of business sadly..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW - I think our uses sound about the same.What about this outfit http://www.amazon.com/Firepower-0384...elding+Cutting .It says "Includes a triangular tube cutting attachment for all fuel gases and related tips" , would that be suitable for propane? Would this be better than the cutskill I posted earlier?
Reply:Originally Posted by Eddie MullinsDSW - I think our uses sound about the same.What about this outfit http://www.amazon.com/Firepower-0384...elding+Cutting .It says "Includes a triangular tube cutting attachment for all fuel gases and related tips" , would that be suitable for propane? Would this be better than the cutskill I posted earlier?
Reply:God how I absolutely despise Victors website. It's almost impossible to dig out the information you want, even if you know what you are looking for.  From what I can tell, neither of those units are set up for propane. These two things from Victor may help.http://victortechnologies.com/Altern...e_overview.pdfhttp://victortechnologies.com/Altern...re_5-15-11.pdf2nd link tells you exactly how to take Victors part numbers and determine what fuel gas  regs are set up for.http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Upl...29_Sep2013.pdfThis one is actually a bit better than most of their lit.For the Medalist series0384-2544 G250AF-540/510LP w/ 6MFN1 Propane Medalist 250 is the Medium duty rig set up for propane and comes with a #1 cutting tip and a #6 rosebud. No welding tips included in any of the propane units I see.0384-2692 G350AF-510LP w/ 8MFN Propane Medalist 350 Would be the Heavy duty version and is set up with a #1 cutting tip and a # 8 rosebud.Torch handles in both kits are identical. Same goes for the O2 regs and hose. The propane regs are different however, the 1st one having the 250 series reg and the 2nd having the bigger 350 reg. They match the rosebud to the regs, assuming that if you want the bigger reg, you are more likely to want the bigger rosebud. However since the torch handles are identical, both will handle either tip. They do list the 250 as being capable of welding up to 1/4" with acetylene and the 350 regs capable of welding up to 3". Obviously the 350 regs can handle the extra gas flow needed vs the 250.I'm not actually finding any info on the Firepower kits in Propane. They may be acetylene only kits, even if the equipment can be used for propane ( assuming you get the right tips to replace the acetylene tips that come in the kit..1st unit you posted as #1 in post #1 is at the very top of the last chart posted and is only for acetylene.  last one posted is listed at the end of this  link and also is acetylene only.http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Upl..._March2007.pdfThat last link also gives some information about the different Victor "level" Note the Medalist kits have a 2 year warranty, and the Firepower ones are listed as 1 year warranty. Given a choice, I'd probably go with Medalist regs vs the firepower ones since it looks like those might be the better built ones. Not sure where exactly the Cutskill stuff fits in except it's lumped in with the Medalist stuff in some of the lit, making me think it's the upper end stuff.Did I mention I absolutely HATE Victors website and digging out stuff from them... .No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by copeLooks like the same torch, but with more tips, including a rosebud.  I would go for it.
Reply:DSW - thanks for digging though all of the victor literature. From what I can tell it will be cheaper to get an acetylene outfit and buy propane tips and hose.
Reply:That I can't say at the moment. I haven't had a chance to do that sort of research yet even for my torch. I'll keep you posted what I determine. From what I've been able to tell so far, my torch handle is the same as those in the links you posted, so propane tips will be the same. I need to price new hoses ( the ones I have on my 2nd set are very stiff and old) as well as getting a propane based rosebud.  I should have the CGA adapter ( if I can find where it went after I set it aside cleaning out my truck a few months back...) see belowOh one other minor note. The CGA 510 fittings that are found on the standard propane cylinders like BBQ grills are not necessarily the same as what is on your 75 cf acetylene cylinder. My 75 cf acetylene has a CGA 300 valve on it. So to use propane, I would also need an adapter to convert from CGA 510 on the cylinder to the CGA 300 on the reg. Not a huge deal, but something to be aware of. Also Acetylene regs are designed so that you can't go above 15 psi in output as acetylene becomes unstable above that.. Propane how ever does not have this issue, and with big tips, you'll possibly want that extra pressure. That's why they usually tell you it's ok to run propane thru an acetylene reg, but not to do the reverse and run acetylene thru a propane reg. It's not about seals and materials, it's that if you set the fuel reg to high you can have the acetylene become unstable and self ignite..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I'm finding the  Medalist with the 250 regs and the #6 torch, for $235 at Cyberweld. The bigger 350 regs and #8 tip looks like it runs about $288.They sell the standard 250 for acetylene for $209. To that you'd need to add grade T hose vs the grade R for acetylene that comes with the kit, Add $37. The #1 propane cutting tip will run you about $14 and the #6 rosebud almost $100. So total you're  close to $360 if you went with an acetylene kit and "upgraded" all the parts, and you would still need the adapter if you wanted to use both acetylene cylinders you have now as well as propane.I'd rather dump that extra $130 or so into a gassaver instead.  Cyberweld sells those for about $180 for propane and I think I saw them cheaper elsewhere.http://store.cyberweld.com/vime25wecuou.htmlhttp://store.cyberweld.com/vime35hecuou.htmlTo be honest I'm really wondering if it's worth using some of what I already have on hand vs buying new. The rosebud, and hose, plus cutting tip is getting me close to $150. For the extra $80 to get the handle and 2 regs is sort of stupid cheap. then I have a ready to go 100% dedicated propane rig..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I didn't realize the rosebuds were so pricey. I had seen some of ebay for $30, but they may have been for acetylene only. I didn't realize different rosebuds were needed, but I do seem to recall seeing a post, maybe on here, about using a pipe coupler, or short peice of copper pipe to slip over the end of an acetylene rosebud to create a recess and using it for propane?BTW - I foud the medalist LP outfit for $225 with free shipping : ) http://www.bakersgas.com/VIC0384-2544.html , and an acetylene outfit for $159, about $180 shipped http://www.threemulesweld.com/victor...fit-0384-2541/  .I know this is a little petty, but I just don't like the looks of the medalist torch handle, but for that price it seems worth a try. Bakers list it as having a 5 yr warranty.
Reply:After a bit more reading on here, its seems to be pretty common to just use larger propane cutting tips rather than a rosebud for propane heating tasks. Definetly the more cost effective route. I have also been looking at Smith propane units, but since they don't come with rosebuds was shying away form them. If the larger cutting tips will work for heating, Smith might be another good option...
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNo as far as I can tell even though it has the CGA 510 connection, all the tips are for acetylene. It took me quite a bit to wade thru Victors literature to find that.Originally Posted by copeI knew that.  I saw where Eddie said he might ad Propane later, and since the set me linked to was O/A, that's what I thought he wanted.
Reply:The Firepower set in post # 16 is for Acetylene.  Just a set with a cutting torch, one cutting tip and one welding tip, and is available from a couple vendors for under $180.  http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Upl...65-2627%29.pdfWhatever you get, you need to look at the included part numbers to really know what series and grade of torch and regulators you are getting. The good ones simply cost more.  The midsized Smith kit for propane  with a heating tip runs about $375.  Lifetime warranty.  It's the one with a WH100 handle, not the CW5A."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by Eddie MullinsAfter a bit more reading on here, its seems to be pretty common to just use larger propane cutting tips rather than a rosebud for propane heating tasks. Definitely the more cost effective route. I have also been looking at Smith propane units, but since they don't come with rosebuds was shying away form them. If the larger cutting tips will work for heating, Smith might be another good option...
Reply:Just starting to look into Harris. I found this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harris-44032...item19dae69b17 for only $128 , which would make buying a new hose and tips still a good deal. Am trying to confirm now propane tips can be used with it. Went to the harris site for more info and found this recall notice http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/recall/ , not a real good selling point for me.