Old Farts TIG Welding Class

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Ol' Rick V is taking a GTAW welding class at the local college this semester.Thought maybe you might be interested in what I am experiencing in this tig class.Every Tuesday night, 7 - 10PM for 10 weeks... TIG Welding (credit course).Class #1: Sept 25 - Light coverage of general theory only - 2 hours.The tig-welding instructor is a certified Canadain Welding Board (CWB) inspector. I'd guess he was in his mid 30's.  There are only 7 students in this class - just the minimum to run the class.Really an 'old fart's' class too as 6 of us are in our 50 - 60's with just one youngen - my cross-street neighbour's kid Josh - about 20 years old.In comparison...- My Arc Welding 1 course last year had 10 students... lots of one-on-one time.  There was 2 young colege age guys, 1 guy in the 30 - 40 age range and the rest of us were Old Fart Hobby Welders!- My  oxy-acet course two years ago had been full - 20 students including 1 girl. That class make up was 4 college-age folks, 12 guys in their 30 and 40's and 4 old farts - like me. With with so many students, each of us only got one-on-one instruction once during the 3 hour classes. The college building we are in is one year old; the welding shop in the basement is complete now - about 20+ welding booths.  Most the welders are Lincoln V350pros but there are 6 AC capable TIG welding machines.1st class (lecture room) consisted of meet the teacher, being given a a few handouts, a white-board presentation of the basics of TIG machines and techniques... got hard to stay awake after an hour and a half! The course is to consist of laying down beads, lap, tee and  corner joints (flat position) in cold-rolled mild steel, stainless steel and aluminum - with and without filler.  Reading between the lines of what the instructor said, it sounded like as long as we managed to be adequate in making these 'projects' we'd all be fine.  To me, this grading sounded much more laidback and subjective compared to the ACR-1 course where we were graded on 16 specific items: lap and tee joints in 1/8 and 3/16 inch steel with 3/32 and 1/8 inch electrodes 6010, 6013, 7014 and 7018.  After the lecture, we went off to the welding shop and were shown the booths, tungsten-only grinder (groved from many shapenings) and the TIG metal bins:-  4 x 1.5 inch coupons of 1/16 inch thick cold rolled steel (no hot rolled because "it too dirty for tig"),- 4 x 1.5 inch coupons of 1/16 inch thick stainless steel,- 6 x 1.5 inch coupons of 1/16 inch thick aluminum.- 6 x 1.5 inch coupons of 1/8 inch thick aluminum.The class only lasted 2 hours instead of 3.  According to the instructor, next week we start in the welding shop with a lot of instructor demos before we get welding ourselves.  IMO, this 1st class would have been better if it had been a simple 1 hour lecture followed by 2 hours in the welding shop - with the instructor doing some demos and then getting us welding. I wonder if someone could explain why this tig course is so expensive compared to the oxy-acet and Arc-1 courses of the same duration - 3 hours per week for 10 weeks.- Oxy-acet...$420- Arc-1.........$515- Tig.............$695 In Arc-1 we sure burnt through a lot of metal coupons and electrodes. far more and thicker material than compared to oxy-acet or to this tig course.  So, I'm just wondering why tig costs $180 more than arc-1?   Any ideas?Thanks for reading...Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Interesting to see the class demographic.  I think it really shows the effect of removing vocational ed classes and facilities from middle and high schools over the last 25 years or so.  Without a source for initial exposure, students don't develop an interest or awareness of the trades ..  should get lots of 1 on 1 instruction.    will be nice if you can get to doing some aluminum too.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Great review!  Keep the reports coming! (no hot rolled because "it too dirty for tig")
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpaw...Without a source for initial exposure, students don't develop an interest or awareness of the trades.
Reply:Hi Mondo, "I thought everyone knew TIG is the Holy Grail of welding! The price of the course has nothing to do with the cost to run it."  I'm not so sure, maybe it's the cost for the volume of argon, the cost of tungtens?  Maybe someone like DSW who has taught courses may enlighten us.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:With GTAW gas consumption is high compared to wire feed processes.   The flow rate is less but the welding is slow.  The cost of gas eats up the budget quickly.   Novices eat through tungstens and cups and collets.  Unless you have someone like Zap putting the fear of God in them they damage things without any hesitation.  Fortunately 20 hours really does not prepare someone for stainless and aluminum alloys which also cost a bundle.  7 students at 695 each = $4865      30 hours of instruction = $162 per teaching hour  In reality any instructor worth his salt is spending at least one hour extra each night in preparation.The instructor likely is getting 35 to 45 an hour 35X30= 1050   You are left with $3815 to purchase gas, rod and sheet then the high cost of damaged collets etc. ( gas could be as much as $1500 )  Oh yes the department head wants to make a profit after paying overhead.
Reply:My guess is cost of materials plays a large part of this. Cold rolled cost more than hot rolled, Stainless and alum, more than steel. It wouldn't surprise me to see a student burn up 1-2 20' sticks of material in one class when doing joints.  With 6" coupons, that's maybe 15- 20 pieces if you are using 2 pieces per weld coupon. That's one of the reasons we try and get students to just keep adding on to their existing coupon, so we get the most out of the material. Then we cut it all apart and try to make use of it again if possible....Filler would also add to the cost, as SS and alum filler costs more as well. I'll bet you easily would spend more than that extra $180 in materials if you were buying your own..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Ok!  TIG isn't the holy grail of welding.  With the costs of gas, tungsten, CR, SS, and Al it is just plain expensive.There ya go, popping my bubbles again.Member, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VThe course is to consist of laying down beads, lap, tee and  corner joints (flat position) in cold-rolled mild steel, stainless steel and aluminum - with and without filler.  Reading between the lines of what the instructor said, it sounded like as long as we managed to be adequate in making these 'projects' we'd all be fine.  To me, this grading sounded much more laidback and subjective compared to the ACR-1 course where we were graded on 16 specific items: lap and tee joints in 1/8 and 3/16 inch steel with 3/32 and 1/8 inch electrodes 6010, 6013, 7014 and 7018..
Reply:Hey lotechman,I don't know if the argon gas cost is all that high - $1500?If I were to buy it in small user-owned cyclinders (max 60 ft^3) here, it runs about $1 per ft^3.  But the college is using banks of big rental tanks so I expect they are paying no more that say $0.30 per ft^3.  In a 3 hour class, with demos, cheking with the instructor, break, etc., I don't expect anyone is going to welding more than 2 hours.  So at 15 ft^3/hour that's 30 ft^3 of gas per student = 30 x 0.30 = $9 per class/student.  With 9 classes to go, that's $81 of gas per student or with 7 students = $567.Maybe it's as you said, "Novices eat through tungstens and cups and collets". Hey DSW,Yes cold rolled cost more than hot rolled, but isn't tig going to use far less material than stick did simply because of the speed of stick verses tig?You're right about the stainless and alum coupons and filler rods costing more than steel... still I can't really see using that much material - maybe more than the oxy-acet course but certainly less than arc-1 course... but I will soon find out! If I can remember (old guy), I'll try to keep track of what I use each night - like I did on my arc-welding course http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=61791I hope you and lotechman are right and it's not like Mondo said, "The price of the course has nothing to do with the cost to run it. It is just that TIG is a "high fashion" process!" Last edited by Rick V; 09-26-2012 at 01:23 PM.Reason: spellRick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW...My guess is that you all really won't get too far in your joints compared to mig or stick. If you do, chances are you'll still have a very long ways to go before you are doing decent welds. This isn't to discourage you, it's just simple fact.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VHey lotechman,I don't know if the argon gas cost is all that high - $1500?
Reply:Originally Posted by lotechman... I have found them bleeding wide open well over 30 cfh...   For personal use at home I have an argon that seems to bleed from an artery...
Reply:Just my few observations, What's an oldie?An oldie is someone who is over 50 and knows his best years are gone.If you went and bought a second hand tig outfit and just plugged away till you got it right you probably would have the same result, seeing as how most "oldies" only want to do tig for hobby work.By the time the oldies are good at tig, they're too old to be employed....LOL.Nobody wants an oldie nooby tigger.Oldies have trouble seeing the arc point and need all kinds of aids to get there.Oldies also can't be sitting in one place for too long without having to go for a pee or exercise their stiff legs.Oldies suffer with bad backs and if you have a bad back, sitting stiffly in one position while you attempt to make a steady run is sheer murder.You don't find many good oldies doing tig work.I might be wrong on all those points.Ian.
Reply:i'm 62. i have 3 employees that are in the 55-60 yr. group. i also have 6 employees in the 25-40 age group. thank god for the "old" guys, they do more (correctly and pretty much painlessly) than the younger group. the learning curve seems to be steep and slippery these days.
Reply:Hey there puddytat,RE: An oldie is someone who is over 50 and knows his best years are gone.I'm over 50 (over 60 too) but as to my "best years"... I can't remember! I didn't weld at all until say 5 years ago - at about 60.  If those were my best years, there are many here who will weep  Yes, I was pretty bad. .RE: If you went and bought a second hand tig outfit and just plugged away till you got it right you probably would have the same result, seeing as how most "oldies" only want to do tig for hobby work.I'm not so certain; according to the instructor, 'come and see me when things are not coming together for you - don't waste your time continuing to do it wrong!" RE: By the time the oldies are good at tig, they're too old to be employed....LOL.  Nobody wants an oldie nooby tigger.I'm not looking for a job tig welding - "Relax Everyone!" RE: Oldies have trouble seeing the arc point and need all kinds of aids to get there.There's an arc?Oldies also can't be sitting in one place for too long without having to go for a pee or exercise their stiff legs.Excuse me... I have to go pee.RE: Oldies suffer with bad backs and if you have a bad back, sitting stiffly in one position while you attempt to make a steady run is sheer murder.Fortunatly, I don't have a bad back... well not really - those x-rays lie!RE: You don't find many good oldies doing tig work.Ha, wait until my class graduates!RE: I might be wrong on all those points. Ian. [/QUOTE]I forgot what we were talking about... oops, got to go pee. Originally Posted by dbl612i'm 62. i have 3 employees that are in the 55-60 yr. group. i also have 6 employees in the 25-40 age group. thank god for the "old" guys, they do more (correctly and pretty much painlessly) than the younger group. the learning curve seems to be steep and slippery these days.
Reply:Should have saved your $$$ and just booked a flight to Providence.I will teach you more in 5 Hrs than you will ever learn doing what you are doing..Many former attendees that went to a "Welding School" said the same thing.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by lotechman  Unless you have someone like Zap putting the fear of God in them they damage things without any hesitation.
Reply:Rick, I am looking forward to your posts.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterShould have saved your $$$ and just booked a flight to Providence.  I will teach you more in 5 Hrs than you will ever learn doing what you are doing.  Many former attendees that went to a "Welding School" said the same thing...zap!
Reply:I know I learned a tremendous amount on TIG welding aluminum when I visited Terry at his shop this summer but I had already put in a bunch of hrs practicing.   If I went before I did all that practice, I don't think I would have benefited anywhere near as much from what he showed me.    Maybe Rick should fly down after finishing the class.   Rick. You better get busy shopping for an AC/DC tig machine too...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Rick no need in trying to be brief; it wouldn't be your style!  I like that you are thorough.    It leaves no room for misunderstanding except for when something is over explained and made too complicated and is no longer understandable.  My wife says I do this too much.  It is a symptom of working with young adults that have never worked before and don't know how to operate even a hammer.
Reply:Hi all, one thing I have found out.......if you learn to fly in an old bi-plane flying by the seat of your pants and just manage to not kill yourself or the owner, you are well gifted to go to training school and be streets ahead of any other trainee on the course.This is very much like going to an auction and getting a welder with tig capabilities and having a go....eventually you'll learn by experience not to dip the tungsten in the puddle, not hold the filler in your bare hand, not wear just brazing goggles so's you can see the job better, and last of all not to breathe the smoke and fumes that come off of all that scrap metal you practice on without cleaning it first.The settings you experiment with get you there by trial and error, and once you get a puddle going and manage to keep the arc alive to the end of the run you realise tig is great for special work and there are limits as to how thick you can weld with your hobby welder to get the penetration.Once you have "mastered" the technique of getting near to the job with the gas on and flowing enough and getting the arc to strike without poisoning the tungsten, and then learning not to melt the filler until the job is at least a small molten puddle, and probably most important of all not to take the tip away from the weld zone too quickly to prevent the puddle bubbling up like hot jam, you can front up to evening class to "polish" off your expertise knowing the instructor probably can't teach you anymore than you already know....LOL.With evening class it pays to know all the various aspects of tig mode welding and this puts you into a special category of the fast learner in the instructors eye....all you really want to know are the finer points anyway....those that you can't learn on yor own.I had to write down all the settings for various materials etc 'cos I couldn't remember a month later what went with which mode for whatever the material I was using.....that's the problem with oldies....LOL.......you tend to lose a lot of credability with anyone you work for when you pull out a notebook to see what settings you need.Ian.Last edited by puddytat; 09-28-2012 at 06:26 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VIn other words, I have zero prior experience, while what you offer is a tig finishing school.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterDon't be too sure about that..I don't do much..I let you do it and just point out what you should do..Cleaning..Grinding..Prepping that's all basics that anyone should get a grasp of in 5 mins..Most of the prep is the same as what you do already but just that much cleaner...You already know heat ranges for getting things done and it's not all that different from any weld process at all..I have had more than one walk in here and not know the first thing about TIG but walked out later being able to put down a respectable weld..You already DO have an advantage..You are a welder.You already know what you are looking for..You would be 1000 times better after a few hrs with me.TRUST ME ON THIS!!I have actually had people in here that took classes and NEVER TOUCHED ANYTHING THAT ACTUALLY DID THE WELDING!!!How the fuch are you going to learn anything when all you get is a book?Take it for what it is but you would NOT go home dissapointed.....zap!Originally Posted by soutthpawIf I get a chance to get out that way one summer I would love to take you up on the offer if its still open..
Reply:An old Union rule....never put off till tomorrow, what you can do today in overtime....LOL.Ian.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterShould have saved your $$$ and just booked a flight to Providence.I will teach you more in 5 Hrs than you will ever learn doing what you are doing..Many former attendees that went to a "Welding School" said the same thing.....zap!
Reply:Myself?Never went to a welding school..I learned everything in O.T.J. !!I was really lucky I guess.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Class #2: Oct 2 2012 - Demos, grinding tungsten and Tig welding - flat & outside corner joint with no fillerHi All,Here's some photos taken last year during Arc-1 of the welding shop and inside a typical the welding booth showing: welding machine (Lincoln V350Pro), gas distribution system and welding table.Continued... next post Attached ImagesRick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:OK, the 2nd class started at 7PM with all 7 students present.The instructor explained that tonight we would be doing autogenerous welding - using no fillers.  We would be making beads on flat plate and progressing to outside corner welds.The instructor demonstated how to set up the welder, changing from stick to Tig and switching cables around, adding the foot pedal, adjusting argon gas flow, etc.  Then he marched us over to the tungsten grinder and showed us how to prepare a tungsten (red end) for steel.Next, using cold rolled steel coupons of 4 long x 1.5 wide and 1/16 inch thick, he demonstrated how to make a weld bead in the flat position - holding a tight (close) arc and moving slowly.  He then demonstrated making an outside corner joint - again holding a tight arc to make 4 tacks then running the full length (4 inch long) weld bead.  All this with no filler rod.The instructor explained that we had to get that down pat, using only one hand with no supporting hand, because later we would need our other hand to handle filler rod.  At 7:30PM, he sent us off to our booths to set up our machines and get welding.  By about 7:45PM we were all 'welding'.  Well, something appeared to be wrong with my flow gauge - couln't get any argon flow no matter how I set it.  Instructor came in, "Did you step on the foot pedal?"  Duh!  My Bad... hey when you step on the foot pedal you turn on the gas - and can adjust the flow rate!  Who knew? This was my first real experience with Tig and I found that that it was exacting on arc length but very precise.  It was fun!  Sure, I contaminated my tungsten and had three trips to the grinder - there was a line up for a while!  I was not alone! Just in case, I had brought a pair of 1.5 diopter reading glasses with me.  Thank G*d, I needed them!  With tig, to see exactly what I was doing with the tiny arc and tiny weld puddle, I found my face was real close to the arc, almost looking up the ceramic nozzle!  Actually, I could have used more diopters!  Of course, I'm an old fart and can't focus my eyes too close... 1.5 diopters is nice for me reading. After running several beads on a couple of plates, I saw the instructor for feedback - undercut/too long an arc.  Back to the booth, back to the instructor - too much heat.Back to the booth, back to the instructor - arc wandering too much - back to the grinder.  And so it went.For kicks, I tried an outside corner joint - showed the instructor - too much heat.Anyway, I figured it was time to try playing with adding filler.  I asked the instructor where the filler rod was... and was told, 'You don't get filler rod until I sign off on your beads on flat plate and your outside corner weld.'  Whoa... this class was no so 'relaxed' after all... while we were not graded A, B, C, etc., we had to produce a weld acceptable to the instructor before we could move on!  OK, I liked that and motivated, I went back into my booth and worked on those flat plate beads.  Instructor said OK, and checked me off.  Back to my booth and I knocked out three more outside corner welds - finally got one that the instructor accepted and was checked-off again! By that time (9:45PM) it was clean up time.  Amazing - zip all to clean up - no electode ends or slag on the floor and there was no smoke in the room - the instructor hadn't even turned on the welding booth ventilators!Here's a couple of photo's of what I produced - I brought the test pieces home to photgraph; next time I'll bring the camera to the school.  You want close ups?  You ain't going to get em - too embarassing.  The 1.5 diopter reading glasses are in the photos too.Materials Used:All told I counted that I made 30 weld beads and the average time per bead with post flow was about 40 seconds.  Let's see 30 beads x 40/60 = 20 minutes of actual welding / gas on time.  At my 20 cfh gas flow rate, I used all of 6.7 cubic ft of argon... my small tank price about $7, school cost about $2.50.  Add in the cost of 16 plates of 4 x 1.5 x 1/16 inch cold-rolled steel.  Oh, almost forgot - add in maybe an eighth inch of red end tungsten.Wow, I burnt up so much money!  NOT.Looks maybe like this course is priced as Mondo had said - "I thought everyone knew TIG is the Holy Grail of welding!  The price of the course has nothing to do with the cost to run it. It is just that TIG is a "high fashion" process!" Today, I went into the Dollar Store and laid down $3 for three more pair of 'expensive' reading glasses @ 1.5, 2.0, and 2.5 diopters!Next class, I will have a selection!Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:This is GREAT. Very entertaining. Gotta go to the bathroom now.
Reply:I'm surprised Rick can actually remember everything that happened in the class session.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:RATS! Now I gotta re-read the posts. Old Farts also have CRS.
Reply:Hi all, yeah, the bead without filler is a tryer, can lead to making holes especially in 1/16"....that's thin stuff.Rick, give 1"square tubing a try, especially the 1mm thin wall stuff, especially the corner welds when you make T joints etc.......square tubing butt welded on the flat is quite easy when you get the knack, but the corner weld is a tryer.BTW, the outside corner joint is easy, especially with some filler....try the inside corner joint, that'll make you cry....LOL.....you definately DO need filler for that one.I found that when an outside corner weld was needed you overlap the corner as in one part on the other, not leaving a Vee as you would in a stick or Mig weld joint.......due to you not having to add metal as you weld.You then have a self supplying filler as you melt the two halves into one, and you get a nice rounded corner weld.You do need to allow for the overlap of one piece on the other, or else you will get one side 1/16",(material thickness) whatever, shorter then the other.Ian.
Reply:I'm surprised that no one picked up on "20 minutes of actual welding / gas on time"... in my 130 minutes of available welding time. What?  No comments like, "What the 'H'were you doing with 85% of your time?"I could use the standard 'Old Fart' escape route... "Ah, I don't remember."Honestly I am a little puzzled too!Let's see: 15 min break, two 10 minute old guy trips to the washroom , 15 minutes grinding tungsten , 15 minutes talking to instructor, 10 minutes getting material... still short 45 minutes!  ... and I don't recall faling asleep!  It's a Mystery! Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Doesn't really surprise me at all that your weld time was that low. At least you are using cold rolled and don't have to grind all the mill scale off the coupons as well. Trips to cool down your coupons, general "get ready to weld time", time used to examine your welds... it all adds up fairly quick.I find it really takes someone who's super dedicated and is really fairly good, to get a ton of welds done with tig. I often see way too many guys who if anything need to slow down more and take their time. They are in too much of a rush and then don't pay as close attention to what they need to do to get a decent bead..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW... I find it really takes someone who's super dedicated and is really fairly good, to get a ton of welds done with tig....
Reply:Thanks for posting Rick, reminds me of my "school daze"Are you farsighted or nearsighted?  I'm nearsighted, can see close things real good, but not distances.  When welding with my contacts in, I need to wear "cheaters".  My optometrist said the cheater # is the same as my prescription, only the opposite direction so to speak. Didn't used to be like that, but as us "old farts" age, the eyeball doesn't flex like it used to.Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Well Well Well Rick! Since you were so  honest in your opinion about my oil finish, i'm gonna give you my honest opinionon about your tig skills! LOL, only kiddin bud, keep at it I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:After reading all this Rick I must admit that I think your instructor should have everything ready for show and tell about how to set up and run..Ya know..like how to tell if there is gas or not..Not letting you try to figure it out by yourself when you admit you know nothing...Geesh.That's what I go over FIRST before you ever get to do stuff..Small things like this add up to you wasting time when seat time is short as it is..FWIW I think you are wasting your $$$$..From what I am reading it seems like a very steep price...and lets leave it at that.Maybe I should start charging......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by dubl_t... Are you farsighted or nearsighted?
Reply:Almost forgot... On the 1/16 inch thick cold-rolled-steel plates, the average welding current and voltage (according to the V350Pro readouts) were just 35 amps at 10 volts.  Not a lot of power!Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VAlmost forgot... On the 1/16 inch thick cold-rolled-steel plates, the average welding current and voltage (according to the V350Pro readouts) were just 35 amps at 10 volts.  Not a lot of power!
Reply:X2 on what zap said, I just did a whole pile o 1/16, and I had the machine set to 110 with a 3/32 tung. I wasnt hitting it full throttle, but way more than 35.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:If u r reading display immediately after stopping welding it is showing the last current it was welding at.  So if u let off the pedal at the end of the weld it shows the last current which may not be the actual current throughout the weld..Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawIf u r reading display immediately after stopping welding it is showing the last current it was welding at.  So if u let off the pedal at the end of the weld it shows the last current which may not be the actual current throughout the weld..
Reply:That's what I saw on the welder display (TIG) while the instructor was laying down an autogenerous (no filler) weld puddle.  He was using a 3/32 tungsten (red end).  He set the welder to 70 amps max with the pedal full down.  Once he got the pudlle formed, he throttled down the pedal and was 'welding' the rest of the plate at 30 to 35 amps @ 10 volts.   Also, that's what he told us, 'The Magificient 7', to use.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:U will need more heat/amps with filler as the filler will absorb the heat..  set at 70 sounds more reasonable.  I agree with Zap.  A lot of useless info that will do more to confuse than help.   Once u learn to read the puddle it does not really matter where u set the machine as long as u have a high enough amps setting.   Set it higher and u can start the puddle that much faster.  Works great for Al.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:RE:  I agree with Zap. A lot of useless info that will do more to confuse than help.Ahum... I may be mistaken but... Zap quoted you (not me) when he said, "All a BIG bunch of un-needed crap that don't prove anything useful." Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet