Ready to buy my first TIG welder...have an idea, but would like some input.

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So, I have been MIG welding with a Hobart Handler 140 for a few years now and would like to pick up a TIG welder in January or February 2013. I have been researching (watching videos, reading reviews, and browsing weldingweb) for a couple of months now and have a good idea of what I'm interested in, so I will start there.I would say my hard cut off budget is $2000, but 2 months ago that number was $1000 until I realized I couldn't get the machine I wanted for that price. So needless to say, I'm not trying to spend $2000, but would potentially go that high if I had to. Also, I'm not interested in a huge transformer based machine. I would like to buy a new or slightly used inverter machine because my garage space is quite limited at this point. Finally, I will primarily be welding 16ga stainless steel with the machine, but am wanting to start welding aluminum as well, so an AC/DC machine is a must.Originally, after I realized my $1000 budget was way off, I was looking at the Miller Diversion 180. I liked that it could run off 115/230, was of the Miller brand, and could be found for about $1800 shipped. Then as I started looking more, I found that it would be a great machine to learn on, but might not be the best machine to have for many years after I got better at TIG welding and wanted more tuneability, esp. for aluminum. Figured the added cost of dual voltage, wasn't worth it to me as well.So, I kept looking and found the announcement of the new Thermal Arc 186. This machine is the front runner for me right now. It seems like they have good customer support and a good reputation for making quality products. The fact that the new machine is Chinese made is a bit concerning, but as long as the company has control of QC and stands behind it, I don't don't have much of a problem. I like all of the tuneability of the welder (esp. with the AC setting), the fact that it has pulse, and both HF and lift start (will be using it while working on my car). Also, the price ($1625 shipped w/ foot pedal from welding web) is right in line with what I feel comfortable spending and seems to be a very good value.The other machine that I keep seeing while watching some of weldingtipsandtricks youtube videos is the Everlast PowerTig 250EX. I hear people call the company "Neverlast" and was wondering how true that is on the 250EX and whether or not it is actually a good machine. The price ($1460 on Amazon) is maybe too good to believe for the power and features that are included.Honestly the machine I want the most is the HTP Invertig 221, but the cost of $2495 is 25% more than I  think I am willing to pay...and is 50% more than the Thermal Arc 186. If I could get one for $2000, I would probably do that in a heartbeat.So any extra input, advice, recommendations, etc would be appreciated. M-P
Reply:For your budget, hands down the Thermal Arc 186, or you could find an Arcmaster 185 on eBay.Get the foot control.  IOC is a great place to buy.  Good people.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thermal-Arc-...item20cdbb3d8dLast edited by kazlx; 12-11-2012 at 04:43 PM.
Reply:Chinese welders get bashed pretty hard around here...except for thermal arc. People seem to like them. If I had to upgrade I would probably get the thermal arc to be honest. I love my diversion 180 though. And the fact that it doesn't have all those settings is nice, because it helped me learn a lot. I bet I would have messed around with all sorts of settings for ever if I had them. So find some good settings that most people use and don't move them if you do aluminum. I've had my machine for I think 3 years now and I love it. You find ways to get it done even without the settings. Doing small beads at a time, or pulsing with your foot or cleaning the metal or preheating it vs adjusting balance. If you want a little cheaper, the hobart 165 is out there. Same as the miller diversion 165 but it includes a foot pedal. Doesn't have a digital display either, but big deal.Everlast. From what I have seen, if you get one and it works you got lucky. If not and you have to send it back, you pay shipping. Longevity. Never really thought too much about the company until they sent Lanse a plasma cutter and stick welder and he seems to love them. Kind of gave me a new outlook on them. They seem like a good product and a good price, only question is how is the customer service?And of course there is the ultra budget eastwood tig welder. Like the rest, it's made in china. But eastwood says it's made to their standards. Sure, I bet all the ones in china are made to someones standards. I know someone that has it and he loves it. I ordered one and it showed up not working (screw loose on the inside) quick call to eastwood and they took it back (and yes they paid for shipping!)I'd have to say if you get a china welder get one where the company has been around for ever and has good customer service. That is what's important.HTP. They are local to me, and I've bought some things from them. Just took a friend over there to pick up their mig 130. The 221 is $2495 (220v only and add $525 for dual voltage). They are all made in Italy and I got to use one. I must say it's a fantastic machine! A lot of performance shops in my area use these. If money was no object, I would have one. I know they just had the 221 on sale, like $350 off? But don't quote me.I'd say keep your eye out for a used diversion 180 or htp or something. If you end up spending 1800 on the miller, you might as well save up and get the htp (if you have 220v). That's what I would have done if I could do it over again.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Budget is just under what a new Syncrowave 200 form Miller would run. Used you can find them for $1000-1500. I'd personally suggest you go that route..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If you like Miller, the syncrowave 200. If you like Lincoln, the PT225. You might try going to your local dealer and make him an offer that fits your budget. It might suprise you.
Reply:kazlx and Gamble, thanks for the input. I don't think I will consider the Eastwood at this point and probably not the Longevity either. I'd prefer to buy from a brand that has a history of customer service.Also, I did read somewhere that calling up HTP, talking to them about your budget, and telling them what other machines you are considering, that there is a chance they will cut you a deal. I just highly doubt that they could make me a deal that would put the machine in my budget. Originally Posted by DSWBudget is just under what a new Syncrowave 200 form Miller would run. Used you can find them for $1000-1500. I'd personally suggest you go that route.
Reply:If you are building any sort of turbo kits or performance products for your personal vehicle or other customer's cars/projects I would try to find a dynasty. I know they are more money but I weld with a syncro at work every day and I prefer my dynasty over that any day. A 200 is small and compact which is what you are looking for and it welds aluminum like a dream. I'm all for the notion that it depends on the person welding to produce perfect welds but the dynasty seems to help out a lot. I don't know exactly what you are wanting to use the tig for but it seems to have the best all around versatility.Miller Dynasty 200Millermatic 211Instagram?.... find me @ WELD_MEDIC
Reply:Barely used Miller Maxstar 150 STL's sell on EBay for <$1K. DC only.
Reply:Looks like you figured it out for yourself ; buy the TA186 or save more money for the HTP
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocharged110kazlx and Gamble, thanks for the input. I don't think I will consider the Eastwood at this point and probably not the Longevity either. I'd prefer to buy from a brand that has a history of customer service.Also, I did read somewhere that calling up HTP, talking to them about your budget, and telling them what other machines you are considering, that there is a chance they will cut you a deal. I just highly doubt that they could make me a deal that would put the machine in my budget.Thanks, but as I stated in my original post I'm not really interested in a large unit like the two you guys mentioned. Garage space is really at a premium now with 2 cars, 2 pit bikes, all my tools and other odds and ends. Seems like the smaller inverter units is all that I am interested in.Thanks everyone...keep the comments coming.
Reply:Originally Posted by nikodellLooks like you figured it out for yourself ; buy the TA186 or save more money for the HTP
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocharged110Also, I wonder if the HTP is even worth the 50% higher cost to me.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleDepends on what you plan on doing with your tig. As of right now no it's not. But later down the line those options may help you out some. All depends on what you are doing.
Reply:Originally Posted by nikodellJust curious what does the HTP do that ThermalArc doesn't? I thought the ThermalArc was a full featured inverter is that not correct?
Reply:Originally Posted by copeHTP is also a full feature inverter, but it's a larger unit..
Reply:I saw a video today by one of our forum members on the longevity 160sx. Just unboxing, and it's the same as the eastwood with 2 exceptions. Eastwood doesn't do stick and is a different color. Everything else is the same, so I looked around to see if eastwood changed their design, nope, but they did drop the price to $799. So I thought wow that is so inexpensive for a ac/dc machine (at least to get started)then looked up the longevity welder...[ame]http://www.amazon.com/LONGEVITY-741360254732-160SX-160AMP-Welder/dp/B0085XM7G4[/ame]$649. Seriously? SOOOO cheap. If it lasts you a few years, then hot damn. But there is a reason why things in made in USA last forever.I'm almost half tempted to buy it just to have the balance control for those sticky tig jobs.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I'd be all over that TA186.  I bought my 185TSW for that much used.  Sold it for the same amount 6 months later.  Went to a Dynasty 200, then back to a TA300 when I found the deal of a lifetime.TA's are great reliable machines.  I personally wouldnt spend that much more for the 20 extra amps and the EN/EP adjustment the HTP gives ya.  If their past performance is any indication of how the new machine will function, you will be very happy.I wouldn't be surprised if the 186 price goes up in the next few years.  That's what happened with the 185 when it came out.  It started out life at $1600 and ramped up to $2600 in a few years.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleIt's not much taller than my diversion 180, and about the same size as the eastwood.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255I'd be all over that TA186.  I bought my 185TSW for that much used.  Sold it for the same amount 6 months later.  Went to a Dynasty 200, then back to a TA300 when I found the deal of a lifetime.TA's are great reliable machines.  I personally wouldnt spend that much more for the 20 extra amps and the EN/EP adjustment the HTP gives ya.  If their past performance is any indication of how the new machine will function, you will be very happy.I wouldn't be surprised if the 186 price goes up in the next few years.  That's what happened with the 185 when it came out.  It started out life at $1600 and ramped up to $2600 in a few years.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWBudget is just under what a new Syncrowave 200 form Miller would run. Used you can find them for $1000-1500. I'd personally suggest you go that route.
Reply:Originally Posted by Gamble Longevity. Never really thought too much about the company until they sent Lanse a plasma cutter and stick welder and he seems to love them. Kind of gave me a new outlook on them. They seem like a good product and a good price, only question is how is the customer service?
Reply:If buying new I would save more dough and go with the htp221 it has more power and more duty cycle than the ta186.. Actually to stay within your budget you might consider a used or old stock TA185, lincoln squarewave 175, miller syncrowave200 or lincoln precision tig 225, maybe even a syncrowave 250 if you have the available input power and room,  dont know where your located but http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/3492417627.html  dont forget your gas and consumables if your figuring those into your final budget..Last edited by brucer; 12-28-2012 at 07:54 PM.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocharged110Thanks. I think I have gotten enough thumbs up to go with the TA186. I'll probably be ordering it the first week of January when my December paycheck comes through. Until then I'm still going to keep my eye out for used TA185 machines, but I'm not holding my breath.
Reply:So I am ready to buy now and will place an order as soon as I am 100% sure of what I want.I still like the TA186 and it is still at the top of my list, but I am having second thoughts towards the Longevity 200 DX. Right now they are offering a 20% off holiday discount making the 200 DX $1116 shipped or the 200 DX Package (with water cooler and cart) $1490 shipped. Also, looking at the features, they seem to be pretty comparable except the TA is fully digital and the Longevity has adjustment knobs.On another note....IOC raised their price on the TA186 w/ foot pedal nearly $200 from $1595 shipped to $1790 shipped in the past month. Cyberweld does still have it for $1625 shipped, but I feel like that price will change soon too because they have been selling so well and I read that Thermal Arc did something similar when they released the 185.I think I am just having trouble pulling the trigger on the TA with Longevity offering significantly more for less cash.
Reply:This has been hashed over so much here why do you ask what to do yet again? Long term  I would say the TA would be the way to go. For myself I would not even consider the other but that is me. I have found over the years 99.999% of the time you are getting what you pay for in the long run.Originally Posted by nikodellThis has been hashed over so much here why do you ask what to do yet again?
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocharged110No need to be a dick about it.
Reply:maybe this will help you..think of it as a shortgevity..ive had a ta185 for years without one offkey fart from it..
Reply:duplicate post.Last edited by cope; 12-30-2012 at 08:13 AM.
Reply:Buy the Longevity, ive got 2 of them. never had a "offkey fart" from either.Longevity 160sx Lincoln 140 miglincoln magnum spoolgunVictor torch and regulators
Reply:Well I bit the bullet and placed an order for a Thermal Arc 186 w/ foot pedal, a pair of Tillman 24C tig gloves, some 1/16'" 308L filler rod, and some 1/16" 2% lanthanated electrodes from cyberweld. Thanks again for all the opinions and advice.
Reply:Please post back your opinions on the machine.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:So, one of my projects for the spring is going to be completely rewiring my garage for more outlets and a dedicated 50A welding outlet. Until then I was planning on running a 25ft 10/3 cord to my 30A dryer outlet in my laundry room, but after reading the 186's owners manual I'm wondering if that is ok to do. Here is a screenshot of the specs that show max input current of 34.9A. The thing that confuses me is where it says "Effective Input Current...(See Note 1)" and then "Note 1: The Effective Input Curent should be used for the determination of cable size & supply requirements." Does this mean that It shouldn't see more than 15.5A  under normal use (I find this hard to believe) or is this something completely different? Attached Images
Reply:You indeed are seeing it correct. The wonders of inverter technology.You should be fine with that cable and 30 amp outlet. I do the same with my Dynasty200.Last edited by shovelon; 01-02-2013 at 12:00 PM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYou indeed are seeing it correct. The wonders of inverter technology.You should be fine with that cable and 30 amp outlet. I do the same with my Dynasty200.
Reply:It should be noted that the Longevity stuff in the recent testing posts is all new product lines.  New factory, new QC etc.  I believe the weldall line is being discontinued.   They have noted the reliability issues and r making lots of changes to improve.   I would say that u can expect siimilar results from anything in the same product line.   At least if I make a recommendation about  Longevity products, will be that way...Thus the Forcecut 42i is the first in its line and I cannot comment on their models ending in "0". But if a 62i was made on the same tech and design I think the recommendation could carry over...    keep in mind the company is only about 8 years or so old...   there is a learning curve.   Hopefully they are getting it right now..Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:turbocharged110 you already know what you want so get that TA 186 before you can afford it anymore! Dooooo! He already bought it! You did well I like it and the price even more...Last edited by OldSkull; 01-02-2013 at 02:16 PM.Miller MM211Esab Mini Arc 161LTSEsab Handy Plasma 380Duck tapeTy- rapKool-aid
Reply:I think you did good. I bought my HTP221 last year during their black Friday sale. At the time it was 200 bucks more over the 185 since like other folks said, their price went up from when it was released. I figured the 200 at the time was worth the extra 40 amps and a few features. If it was 1600.00 vs 2500.00, I would have went the 185 route for sure since the 221 is more welder than I probably need (have yet used the top end of the welder). I do really like it but I am sure you will like the 186 too since I hear a lot of good things on the 185.Enjoy your new toy . I wish I had more time to get in the garage and weld more.Hobart Handler 210 with SpoolgunHypertherm PM30 PlasmaHTP 221 Tig WelderHF BandsawHF Auto Dark Helmet
Reply:Originally Posted by OldSkullturbocharged110 you already know what you want so get that TA 186 before you can afford it anymore! Dooooo! He already bought it! You did well I like it and the price even more...
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocharged110Well I bit the bullet and placed an order for a Thermal Arc 186 ...
Reply:SOB..that's a damn good deal... I just might have to invest in one soon as well...Lincoln pro mig 180Lincoln Square Wave Tig 300/wp 20/home built water cooler Victor, Purox, Harris, O/A welding/cutting setupsVintage Craftsman drill pressVintage Craftsman/Atlas 12"x 36'' lathe7''x 12'' w/c band saw Everlast 140 st
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocharged110 Too bad i just got an email from cyberweld today saying that not everything is in stock and it will be 4-7 days before my order ships.
Reply:Welder will be here tomorrow . Planning on taking plenty of high-res pictures of it to post up on the internet because that is something I have had trouble finding.Also I picked up the supplies and will be making my 25' extension cord tonight so I can lay my first beads as soon as I get the welder unboxed.||  Thermal Arc 186  |  Thermal Arc 95s  ||
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocharged110Welder will be here tomorrow . Planning on taking plenty of high-res pictures of it to post up on the internet because that is something I have had trouble finding.Also I picked up the supplies and will be making my 25' extension cord tonight so I can lay my first beads as soon as I get the welder unboxed.
Reply:Anxiously await the pics and review.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Picked the welder up at Fedex last night. It was packaged well and arrive without damage. I didn't get much done with it, however. Just got my 6' long 3-prong dryer plug to 6-50R adapter cable and my 25' 6-50R extension cord made so that I could fire it up and run through the setting.Here's a teaser pic of the first start up...so far the interface seems very user friendly and intuitive. More pictures and info tonight.||  Thermal Arc 186  |  Thermal Arc 95s  ||
Reply:So, I still haven't gotten detailed pictures of the new welder yet because I have been too busy learning how to tig weld. I didn't think it would be easy, but thought I would at least have a leg up because I am good at watching the puddle while mig welding....boy was I wrong. It is like learning to speak again...so frustrating, but I finally feel like I am starting to get somewhere. I promise I will take a bunch of pictures with something other than my phone this weekend.This picture is welding 1/8" thick, 2" square tubing (have a ton of scrap). The welder is set to 125A DC, HF TIG, #6 cup, 3/32" thoriated electrode and 3/32" E70S-6 filler rod. I don't have a welding table built yet, so I am using the torch mounted controls. Top is just watching the puddle without any filler material and I feel good doing that. The problem I am having is with adding filler...I'm just really bad at keeping a consistent torch movement while adding the filler material...that and going in a straight line while using both hands. I feel like I slow WAY down and put to much heat in because I'm concentrating so much on the filler addition.When I switch it to pulse I do MUCH better and I love it, but I want to learn on standard constant current so that I can use any machine and not rely on pulse. Also, I'm really ready to get it on a table so that I can use the foot pedal. The torch controls feel cumbersome and I can't vary the current easily at all. Attached ImagesLast edited by turbocharged110; 01-18-2013 at 09:58 AM.||  Thermal Arc 186  |  Thermal Arc 95s  ||
Reply:You should try to learn without pulse. This is why I'm glad I started with my diversion, no real settings to mess with helps the learning curve.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleYou should try to learn without pulse. This is why I'm glad I started with my diversion, no real settings to mess with helps the learning curve.
Reply:you can also try ER70-S2 instead of the E70S-6.  Supposedly (only because I haven't tried it myself to compare the two  ) S2 flows a bit less than S6, so it might help you establish a nicer ripple/bead.