Shop heat

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I hope this is the right forum for my topic.  With winter coming on I'll be tig welding in my garage for the first cold weather season.  I need to heat about 400 sq.ft.  The walls aren't insulated (yet), though that may be necessary.  I live in central Indiana so it can get mighty cold.  It's an attached garage and thankfully it isn't exposed to the north.  Does anybody have any suggestions on type, brand and/or BTU output needed for the area I described?  Electric, kerosene or propane(?), I don't have natural gas here.  Also, what is the most economical insulation mat'l for this application?  Appreciate all contributions.
Reply:Temporary heat could be as simple as a kerosene or propane fired "torpedo" looking space heater.  My preference would be propane as it doesn't stink.  Down side is that they add a lot of moisture to the area being heated.  Next step up would be a propane fired unit heater, they are vented and work really well, usually hung from the ceiling.  Insulation would probably be fiberglass, as thick as the walls will hold, with a vapor barrier and 1/2 or 5/8" sheetrock.  Cadillac insulation would be sprayed in foam which offers the benefit of totally sealing all cracks so you get down to near zero infiltration.  That too should be covered with sheetrock to protect it from damage and hot berries.
Reply:ditto. my personal idea would be to use the fiberglass (fire-proof and cheap) and to use either moisture resistant (mold-resistant) sheet-rock, or a pressure-treated OSB/Plywood for the sheething. if at all possible, opt for the OSB/Plywood. 1/2" woudl work great to pound temporary nail hangers in and it can hold up to a lot more abuse than sheetrock. however, the fire-factor come into play. as far as the heater source, if you look around, you may be able to find a good electric space heater at walmart or something. when i lived in michigan, i hated having to run and get propane or kerosene when we needed it most. it never seemed to run out when we only had it on for a short while (an hour or so), but any longer than that and it seemed to know that we wanted to be in the garage all day, so at 8 AM it would run out. try to find a propane refill shop open on sunday at 8 AM.hope that helpsAndy
Reply:As far as the insulation, use fiberglass and fire resistant. As far as the heater, I use a Mr. Heater portable propane heater that take the small propane cylinders (this is a camping heater, that I also use in the shop) it works great for me when I cure paint in the winter. I have a adapter to refill the small cylinders with my BBQ propane cylinder to save money.
Reply:Originally Posted by h2oboyAs far as the heater, I use a Mr. Heater portable propane heater that take the small propane cylinders (this is a camping heater, that I also use in the shop) it works great for me when I cure paint in the winter.
Reply:Make your self a stove, and burn anything you have. I made my buddy a stove out of an old 1000 gallon storage tank, and it feeds the whole 250x400 shop, and he dosen't pay for a dumpster in the winterDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:400 sq ft doesn't need a great deal of heat. My shop at woork is also 400 sq ft. It is well insulated and in nw Arkansas. I use a 230 volt space heater I forgot if it was 4500 or 5200 watt. It got down to -1 last year on the coldest day and just that heater kept it in the mid 50's. Most days I never had any problems keeping it 65-70. I'm sure it gets colder where you are so 8000-10000 watt electric heater would be plenty if you have enough electrical capacity to run it.
Reply:Originally Posted by xspykewhat about carbon monoxide poisoning?
Reply:Get one of those portable propane heaters (Mines a small reddy).  I would check out the local propane supplier and get a 100lb tank (just rent it, its hell of a lot cheaper than refilling the little ones, and will heat that 400 ft space like you wouldnt believe).  when the 100lb tank goes empty, Id hook up a small 20lb, go trade out the 100lb, and be back in business.I used kerosene for years, but the smell is awful, and it takes forever to heat the garage (it is a radiant type).  The price of kerosene is rediculous too.  I figured out that it cost a little bit cheaper to use kerosene, but the propane is just to gosh darn efficient.I just dont want to run a pipe for a stove, but if you dont have problems doing a smoke stack, Its even better to use a stove that can handle coal (It will be able to burn anything you throw in it then..)Good luck.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:I did some research on heaters last year to heat my kitchen and a bigger, draughty space - my wife's studio. Didn't end up doing anything - doesn't really get cold enough here apart from about 8 weeks in mid winter.The Europeans kill us when it comes to smart heating.We traditionally try and heat the air by burning gas or oil or solid fuels. Then because we are in contact with that heated air, we get warmed. But imagine the energy it takes to heat up even a 400 sq ft space. Crazy.The Europeans (and increasingly businesses here and the US) are using heaters that send out rays to warm the surfaces they hit. I guess they're similar to heat lights in bathrooms and food warming areas.You would have seen them in indoor stadiums. Every outdoor cafe here has them to encourage patronage in the winter. They're great because they start heating objects (including people) as soon as they are turned on i.e. you don't have to wait till the air warms up.And they work even with the windows open.They're now much cheaper because the domestic market has caught on. One day I'll get a couple for our 8 weeks of winter.Scott
Reply:Originally Posted by scott brunsdonI did some research on heaters last year to heat my kitchen and a bigger, draughty space - my wife's studio. Didn't end up doing anything - doesn't really get cold enough here apart from about 8 weeks in mid winter.The Europeans kill us when it comes to smart heating.We traditionally try and heat the air by burning gas or oil or solid fuels. Then because we are in contact with that heated air, we get warmed. But imagine the energy it takes to heat up even a 400 sq ft space. Crazy.The Europeans (and increasingly businesses here and the US) are using heaters that send out rays to warm the surfaces they hit. I guess they're similar to heat lights in bathrooms and food warming areas.You would have seen them in indoor stadiums. Every outdoor cafe here has them to encourage patronage in the winter. They're great because they start heating objects (including people) as soon as they are turned on i.e. you don't have to wait till the air warms up.And they work even with the windows open.They're now much cheaper because the domestic market has caught on. One day I'll get a couple for our 8 weeks of winter.Scott
Reply:I use a radient heater and extra clothing. I plug in a small dish shaped radient heater and it directs the heat at me.  I have come to appreciate Patagonias thermals, and a good layer of wool, and then my leathers.  For me this works...I have a wood stove, but I only light it when clients come around so that they are comfy, but that works too.  Like mentioned earlier, insulation will make a big difference."deader than downtown alviso on a friday night"
Reply:For the cheapest route. Wood burning stove is my vote. You can get rid off anything that can be burnt and get heat at the same time. Also it will make for a good welding project.Patriot Performance AutoLincoln Power Mig 255CLincoln AC-225 StickVictor Journeyman O/AQuincy QT-5 Compressor
Reply:Problem with most conventional heaters is the time it takes to warm up the space. Radiant heaters work instantly. And they work in draughty conditions. That's why they're so popular in outdoor spaces. I'm still toying with getting a couple.
Reply:I lucked out this summer. Snaged me a brand new 58,000 btu furnace from a house the company i work for owned. The house was on a property we sold. It was not livable. So I salvaged the furnace for my shop.Patriot Performance AutoLincoln Power Mig 255CLincoln AC-225 StickVictor Journeyman O/AQuincy QT-5 Compressor
Reply:I dunno about you guys, but I have a regular gas furnace suspended from the ceiling.  My shop is 22 X 32 block building with no insulation. My bill is $350 a month in the coldest months.  It gets down to 0* f here or a little colder.  No little propane heater would keep me warm.  I keep it 37 at night and 58 during the 8 to 10 hours I work a day.  There is a lot of equipment and steel to warm up in the morning, but its still cheaper than keeping it warm all night.  My old thermostat only went down to 45.  I bought one of those new eeelectronic ones so I could turn it down to 37 at night.  This helped my heat bill by $50.00 a month.As far as a wood stove, I would need wood.  Cut it in the summer?  NO way.  burn pallets?  It takes a LOT of pallets to just heat for one day.  The other problem is I can't afford the floor space for a wood heater.  600 square feet is a small shop.  Its a good thing its only me working there.labor rate $60.00 per hour.  How many hours can I afford to not work and screw around with finding pallets or gathering wood so I can work?  For me its cheaper to work, and pay the gas bill.David.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:build a custom wood stove to fit neatly in your shop.  or get one of those barrel stove kits. i have one in my shop, it heats like crazy, sometimes too hot.  you can make a small barrel stove [35 gal.]propane is ex$pen$ive,  kerosene stinks   ack!is there a widow in your shop?  you can take out the movable part of the window and replace it with a peice of sheetmetal then run your stove pipe out of the sheetmetal widow. make sure its long enough to get a good draft.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI dunno about you guys, but I have a regular gas furnace suspended from the ceiling.  My shop is 22 X 32 block building with no insulation. My bill is $350 a month in the coldest months.  It gets down to 0* f here or a little colder.  No little propane heater would keep me warm.  I keep it 37 at night and 58 during the 8 to 10 hours I work a day.  There is a lot of equipment and steel to warm up in the morning, but its still cheaper than keeping it warm all night.  My old thermostat only went down to 45.  I bought one of those new eeelectronic ones so I could turn it down to 37 at night.  This helped my heat bill by $50.00 a month.As far as a wood stove, I would need wood.  Cut it in the summer?  NO way.  burn pallets?  It takes a LOT of pallets to just heat for one day.  The other problem is I can't afford the floor space for a wood heater.  600 square feet is a small shop.  Its a good thing its only me working there.labor rate $60.00 per hour.  How many hours can I afford to not work and screw around with finding pallets or gathering wood so I can work?  For me its cheaper to work, and pay the gas bill.David.
Reply:A big stove is nice because anything burnable=heat, and a waste oil drip system makes it even cheaper.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:I would love to find a nice waste oil heater. I just hauled away 50 gal of used oil today.Anyone have a nice used oil heater (overhead) they want to trade for a 1 year old furnace?Patriot Performance AutoLincoln Power Mig 255CLincoln AC-225 StickVictor Journeyman O/AQuincy QT-5 Compressor
Reply:Waste oil heaters are nice, they are just thirsty, and cost$$$ new.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingWaste oil heaters are nice, they are just thirsty, and cost$$$ new.
Reply:OK guys things have changed.  Today I agreed to lease a bigger shop.  Going from 700 sq feet to 1800 square feet. It has a gas furnace and a wood furnace.  I bet that wood furnace learns to burn waste oil.    I'll be moving in jan 1st.Proweld, I do not have any employees.  I work alone all day 6 days a week.  I own a repair shop.  I have customers, mostly commercial fleets.  I'll do what ever I can for them.  I also do private and subcontract welding. I make more welding than I do with the mechanic work.  I started out 3 years ago 10% of my income was from welding, now its 50%.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.