Need help to convince the powers that be on proper aluminum storage and cleaning

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Hello, I am looking for ways to convince the higher ups that we need to do more than just wire brush the extruded aluminum we weld to. Current storage has them laying flat on top of each other out in the weather, and the shop foreman that seems to have plenty of pull has deemed that all that needs to be done is to wire brush it. I have designed a rack that will store the parts vertically and isolated from each other, as well as plastic covered. His complaint is the time to load it, claiming that it will use too much. It would be at most 4 guys for one day 4 times a year. I already ran the figures, and they waste more time wire brushing, so I am looking for other definitive proof that I can use to get the higher ups to over ride this guy so we can get the rework time down, as well as the ergonomic concerns about grinding and brushing when we could prevent it all up front. Thanks!
Reply:Out in the weather sounds awful. And you are right, trapped moisture can stain and corrode the surface deeply. Brushing although effective may embed some of that contamination right back into the metal. Also the surface will show a lack of workmanship. Are the extrusions architectural grade or structural? Where are you located?Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:The extrusions are structural, and are on the underbelly of our trailers. The big kicker is that it is a key weld area, the sections that are staining (ALOT, they turn near black) are essentially part of the frame and are very important for the welds to be strong. We do have recurring troubles with hairline cracks alongside the weld, which of course shows adhesion troubles, most likely due to the aluminum oxide getting into the weld. I have presented sources such as Miller and Lincoln on how this all affects the weld integrity, and did a time comparison, but keep getting stonewalled as the manager for the weld area doesn't agree. Just looking for a source to cite that can definitively show that this is the direction we need to go. I even brought up the brushing embedding the aluminum oxide, along with the likely fact that with the extrusion, there are many small grooves that I have a hard time believing are getting adequately cleaned out. The weld specialist from Miller came out and stated that we could store it outside and be able to deal with it, but the parts must not touch each other. I devised a rack that would give at least an inch spacing, and had plastic lining. Even if it wasn't lined, we would be down to pin point staining over general broadcast as we have now. The concern is that we would spend too much time racking the parts vs just continuing the wire brush method, which I can point to the rework welds for proof it isn't. If I can get some kind of reputable source to show them that the wire brush method is not effective, then I can maybe get somewhere. Right now it seems to be my word against his.
Reply:"convince the higher ups""foreman has plenty of pull""my word against his"If you've already done the math to figure out they're losing time wire brushing, and they won't accept the numbers, you may be banging your head for no reason and making an enemy of the foreman while you're at it.Can you do it on a limited, trial basis? Store some using your method, and compare your handling method to theirs? If they could see positive concrete results rather than theoretical results they may be more open to the change.
Reply:The trick to that is to have the racks made, but perhaps I can figure out a way to do something like that without spending a bunch of money and time to do it. I discovered today that they aren't even wire brushing the extrusions, they are essentially welding straight through the aluminum oxide. The aluminum oxide is very obvious. If I take a piece of scrap with the oxide on it, and then essentially do a weld test type failure test, will that be demonstrative of what will happen? Thought about doing that anyway, as the guys like me and would be happy to do things how I want to. I wouldn't be so hot after this if I wasn't concerned about the failure potential in customer hands. If this was steel and just rust, I would be less concerned. Still not the best, but the strength of the welds are way different. I also neglected to respond to what my location is. I am in east central Iowa.
Reply:I don't have enough experience to say which type of test will prove your point- maybe you could cut and polish the welds through black oxide and compare them to proper welds. My concern is you will piss off the boss / foreman if you don't approach it right, and making a permanent enemy of the foreman is a bad spot to be in. If you go over his head it sounds like he will be pissed. If you allow him to make the decision you already have your answer: no.If they are not even grinding the oxide off then your math has changed. Now the boss sees your proposal as fixing what aint broke, the cost of new racks, plus downtime for 4 guys for 4 days per year = 16 man-days lost. The only way to counter that is to show the dollar comparison of re-working failed welds. Does your company get calls to go fix welds out in the customer space? Have they ever been or could they be sued for failed welds? At some point you may have to tell yourself: I tried, they didn't listen, I will salute smartly and say "sir yes sir" and be done with it, and not let it threaten your work situation.
Reply:I was thinking of doing a comparison test pretty much just like you suggest. I am trying to do it diplomatically, and we do have a weld cracking issue in the field. It is a possibility if these were to all fail there would be a liability issue, but that isn't as likely to happen. What we do get though is unhappy customers. I am doing what I can to approach it with good intent, and this manager has done well to tick off the engineering department as well as those who work directly under him, but all the same we are all on the same team. He is one that likes to be in charge it seems, even when he isn't. I agree though, there comes a point when I will let it go if all the data and such isn't enough for the owners to go with what really should be done, then there is nothing more I can do.  It is frustrating though that they are letting a production manager over ride engineering decisions, even when the owner that is in charge of engineering just stated yesterday that we ultimately have the yes/no  on these kinds of things. (There are 3 owners)
Reply:Perhaps if you do a report for ROI(return on investment). Basically how long it would take to recoup the initial investment. Personally I think storing any metal outside is dumb, even here in dry California.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Re-reading this post, you mention some things that may add to your cost analysis.~ re-work issues: tangible and measureable~ customer satisfaction issues: not tangible, but do you have repeat customers that may be going to a competitor if they see long-term unresolved quality problems~ storage issues: it sounds like you are ordering a lot of inventory in advance. The duration of time in storage is the cause of these problems, as much as the nature of the storage. Can they move to something more like a just-in-time system? It may affect delivery charges and quantity pricing, but it also affects cash flow because they pay up front for material that cannot be recognized as revenue until they make a sale.What kind of material is this, aluminum channel or beams or something? Sounds like some of the storage problems could reduce just by separating "layers" of inventory with a chunk of 2x4, and covering with tarp. And just for curiosity, welding with MIG?
Reply:we just throw a tarp over our aluminum and that solves 99% of black corrosion issues.And what the hell is the scientific explanation for that black corrosion issue anyways? It only occurs when moisture is trapped between aluminum tubes/bars, never on the air to surface?!?!?Problem with tarps is high winds blow them off occaiosnally and then you are screwed.