Would you dare?

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Not that it really matters, my working days are over. But I'm always willing to learn. I learn something new here everyday! I've never been a pipe welder, never really allowed to do much of it. Union thing! I have the hardest time judging the depth. Normally I would use 1/8” 6010 for the root, and hot pass. Then switch to 1/8” 7018, or 5/32” 6010. But I'm not good enough to carry enough iron to make the proper amount of fill with 1/8” 7018. Today I used 1/8” 7010 for the root, 1/8” 7018 for the hot pass, then 5/32” 7018 for a 2-pass cap. Just curious, is it a hard and fast rule to use 6010 for the hot pass when pipe welding? I know if you're working under a WPS that calls for it, you gotta do it. But if not working under a WPS would you use 7018 for the hot pass? This is 6”, sch 80 pipe, 30-degree bevel, knife edge, with 7/64” gap. Just curious what you pipe welders do. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I'm not a pipe welder either but when in school I was taught to do both, 6010 hot pass and 7018 hot pass. Same with the tig root joints, sometimes a tig hot pass other times 7018Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:I will weld the hot pass with 3/32 E7018 all the time.  If the opening is large enough, and the root pass is thick enough, you can run the hot pass wiht 1/8" E7018.I think most pipe welders will run a hot pass with EXX10 because it will push the root in any fill any pinholes, windows, or fix suckback.  These can be more likely running E6010 downhill.  Uphill E6010 leaves a thicker root deposit with less possibility for windows or pinholes(all other things being equal).  So in the uphill world running E7018 for the hot pass on pipe is pretty common.  Just my own $0.02.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doSo in the uphill world running E7018 for the hot pass on pipe is pretty common.
Reply:If no one cares I'll always run a downhill 6010 hot pass. I haven't run a stick root in a couple years, though. And that was just a test to get hired on. It was all TIG roots on the job. I would never willingly run a 5/32 7018 cap unless it was a weave.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGI would never willingly run a 5/32 7018 cap unless it was a weave.
Reply:I ran 1/8'' 6010 for the root with a 3/32'' to 1/8'' gap and finished out with 3/32''  7018 . This was on 6'' and down. If you had a couple of 8'' joints we would use the 3/32 instead of opening up a 1/8'' can .
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPReally Tim, why is that?
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1I ran 1/8'' 6010 for the root with a 3/32'' to 1/8'' gap
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGToo much iron for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGToo much iron for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGToo much iron for me.
Reply:I would have to run it too cold to run stringers. The starts can be a problem running cold with that big of a rod.Yours looks good, though.
Reply:Depends what the weld spec is. Mostly I run a downhill 1/8 6010 root, 1/8 6010 fill or step up to 5/32. 3/32 7018 single pass cap up to 6 inch, after 6 inch Ill step up to 1/8 7018. I like a .030 or .035 gap (mig wire) and a factory land of a penny. That way you can push a root in instead of feather it. If the fitter messes up or gets a bad fitting and I am jammed up, Ill crank my machine way up and shove it in.I Mostly run 1/8 6010 and 3/32 7018 simply because I run them at the same amperage, and often times can be 400 feet away from my truck.Root looks good.14' PowerMig 210 MP13'Burntables 5x10 CNC Table14' SAE300 HE on a 12' Ram 4500 60 CA 4x4. Custom bed/bottles/reels.87' SA250d, 78 SA200,11' Ranger 250 GXT AC/DCThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 8112' Lincoln Precision Tig 22508' LN25
Reply:cep,congratulations on your discovery.
Reply:Around here gas is all down except root ,which is up , 1/8" 6010 p 5 plus root grind hot pass, brush/grind where needed.5/32 fill to cap  . sch 80 pipe 6010 p 5 plus, up hill, grind 3/32 7018 up hot pass ,brush . fill and cap 1/8 7018 all weave no stringers (stringers were considered ship yard welding ,I don't know why),.But there are a lot of welders around here that try and do the root and fill pass in one shot with no open root and shallow bevel on one pipe . up one side down the other .
Reply:Originally Posted by gxbxcAround here gas is all down except root ,which is up , 1/8" 6010 p 5 plus root grind hot pass, brush/grind where needed.5/32 fill to cap  . sch 80 pipe 6010 p 5 plus, up hill, grind 3/32 7018 up hot pass ,brush . fill and cap 1/8 7018 all weave no stringers (stringers were considered ship yard welding ,I don't know why),.But there are a lot of welders around here that try and do the root and fill pass in one shot with no open root and shallow bevel on one pipe . up one side down the other .
Reply:Ran this one today. Hot pass, 1/8” Atom Arc 7018. 110-amps, +2.0 on the arc force. Had to use a needle scaler to get the slag out. Then run a zip disk around the toes to get the last bit of slag out. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Cleaned toes. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Hello Cep ,doe you have the sticks in a drying oven ?
Reply:Originally Posted by denlow60Hello Cep ,doe you have the sticks in a drying oven ?
Reply:that's why you use a smaller rod. or else you need to fill it up more/go wider to eliminate those tracks.That's why I never liked a 7018 hot pass, too hard to get the slag out.
Reply:I always use a 3/32 7018 for the hot pass never ever used 6010 for a hot pass.  I run the hot pass at around 95-100 amps with a 3/32 7018.  Nice and hot and keep a tight weave,  don't forget to pause on the sides,  and it leaves a nice flat hot pass.  Running so hot you burn out anything that is there, and leaves the weld nice and flat when done right...  When I cap with 3/32 7018 I run about the same amperage.  If I was capping with 1/8 I would be hotter 120-130,  depending on pipe size etc...  The slag on the hot pass should chip right off ! Originally Posted by CEPRan this one today. Hot pass, 1/8” Atom Arc 7018. 110-amps, +2.0 on the arc force. Had to use a needle scaler to get the slag out. Then run a zip disk around the toes to get the last bit of slag out.
Reply:A little off topic but what's the difference between E7018 and regular 7018? Or is it the same?Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:The E just means electrode, same thing. It's been a while since I did my 6" pressure test but we always ran 6010 root and 7018 hot pass. The procedure doesn't list a 6010 hot pass option. You could use 3/32" or 1/8" 7018 but you had a 3 1/2 hour time limit and every stage had to be inspected before you could proceed. You could fail if your tacks were too big or too small. 3/32" hot pass was common so you didn't burn through but fill cap was usually 1/8" because of the time limit. I was reading that starting last year, you had the option to do a TIG root for the initial B-pressure test because it is becoming more common. Gap and land was usually the same, ie/ 3/32" or 1/8". I used just under 1/8" land with a 1/8" gap rod. Strangely enough when I did a retest on 2" 6G at an approved retest center, the guy told me to run a 6010 hot pass. I think just so I wouldn't burn through with a hot 7018. Skip ahead to today and I'd need a lot of practice to pass a pipe test. Maybe some bionic eyes too. LoLI didn't like atom arc 7018 because like CEP said it was a bitch to get the slag off ,Excaliber really spoiled me
Reply:I usually tig the root at 5/32 gap. Downhill 6010 hot and filler and uphill 1/8 7018. Only failed xray twice in 8 years with it.
Reply:If i had my choice with stick, I'd use KOBE LB52U 7016's for the root, and WIA TC18 7018 for the fill and cap, but different companies have different procedure's, I've personally only used 6010's for fire water pipelines in a coal mine, any critical pipe welding has been LB52U root with 7018/7016 out, or TIG root and HP with 7018/7016 out, and honestly I don't understand the attraction to a 6010 root other then it being faster then a TIG root, and easier then a low hydrogen root, but I think there's better procedure's for critical work.Last edited by ttoks; 11-09-2014 at 12:55 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Newfie_1986I always use a 3/32 7018 for the hot pass
Reply:that little bit of slag there would burn out on your next filler, providing you didn't run super cold.
Reply:There ya go !  :-)   The hot pass is really no different than any other pass in the pipe,  you should have no slag at the toes if done properly.  No im not saying I always get it right that's why us welders have grinders :-).The only thing with the hot pass is the bevel is narrower, this is where the 3/32 has the advantage,  you can crank the amps and weave a flat hot pass in,  try it with a 1/8 and you wont weave wide enough to flatten it out due to the narrow bevel  (or at least I cant:-) ).With that being said my advice would be to slow down a little on travel speed, cross the center fast, and pause long on either side. Remember you are welding in a uphill progression but it isn't straight up so gravity isn't fighting you as much.  Keep in mind you can pause quite a long time on the toes before metal starts to roll.  You will see the slag roll long before the metal.   Use your wrist while welding hot and fill passes,  point the rod at each bevel when you weave and pause on either side,  it will help eliminate undercut on the bevels which will help hold slag.  On the cap of course go straight in with your weave the surfaces are parallel on the cap so straight in is the way to avoid undercut.This all of course is opinion and what works for me :-) Originally Posted by CEPI read your reply earlier this morning, and I thought hey that's a good idea. Why didn't I think of that!Also thought what better to do on a rainy Sunday morning. So I went out to the shop, beveled a couple pieces of pipe and tried it. I ran this pipe in the 5-G position. WOW! I like that. Even the slag came off easier than the 1/8” 7018. Which is a good thing, because I loaned my needle scaler to a neighbor. I forgot how easy 3/32: 7018 is to run.I ran the die grinder around the toes of the hot pass before doing the fill pass.