Save your switch from the "switch destroyers"

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Hello folks, it seems that no matter how it is explained "students" don't take heed to the care of equipment. We recently added a large number of new welding power sources and feeders(21) and for some reason it is hard for our students to understand the correct care and operation of a machine to help it live to see a ripe old age. For the "enth" time I had discussions of not using a foot to turn a machine on so I decided that I would just have to approach this topic from another angle. These machines are the Miller XMT 350MPa and CC/CV power sources and unfortunately unlike the XMT 304's, they have a switch location that is an easy target for the foot on/off operation. So I constructed a punch for our press brake to make the forming operation easy(no back-breaking & flattening as a secondary operation, or gull wing type forming operation). Machined a typical punch and machined a "window" into it to clear the second flange of the bracket to accommodate the clearance issue with this type of forming. Hopefully this will provide ideas for both machine preservation and also economy forming of other projects. I am including some pictures and likely it will take a couple of posts to get these on here. Best regards, Allan Attached Imagesaevald
Reply:Here are the rest of the photos:Hopefully this might be useful or spark some discussion on issues like these, I like to learn from all of you. Best regards, Allan Attached Imagesaevald
Reply:That should stop em.
Reply:The college that I teach at has both 304's and 350's very few of the students like the 350's everyone wants to use the 304's do you see the same thing at your school
Reply:Hello skipweidner, for those who have been used to the 304's I could possibly say that. For the other new students though, no, I don't believe so. Personally, one of the big differences to me, is with the dig/inductance controls, particularly between the 304/350 CC/CV's as they are more apples to apples than the 304 CC/CV's to the 350 MPa's. I noticed right off that on the inductance/dig control for the 350 CC/CV that it has an "FCAW" setting on that control that isn't on the 304's inductance/dig control knob. If you muddle your way through the information on the 304's I believe there is some information that suggests a setting of "30" for the inductance on those machines when you are operating them with the FCAW wire.I like the "arc control" settings on the 350 MPa, yet they are likely a bit complicated for a lot of students to understand without some time on the machine after they have gotten a good handle on laying down some good beads. I'll have to watch and see if I start noticing what you have relayed about your students and I'll also have to see if I can catch any of that personally when I am out there doing demonstrations and such. Thank you and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Funny you say that Steve, right after I installed the "prototype" I got quizzed on what I was doing and after the explanation one of the students made that exact same comment..... Just to see if they could, they might consider trying it. Of course, they were pushing buttons, yet when they saw my facial expression I believe they knew that I wasn't in "kidding" mode. Regards, AllanEdit: I also had a discussion with them giving a scenario of them being shop owners, having a hot job that is needing to get done. A couple of "their" employees treat the equipment that way and put the welders out of commission due to ignorance/etc. Now they can't get parts for a week or so and their LWS's don't have any rental units available......then what? I'd like to think that this scenario struck home, but you never know?Last edited by aevald; 06-02-2013 at 05:33 PM.aevald
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749It just shows an absolute lack of respect
Reply:Neat trick with the window in your press. The switch protectors turned out great.
Reply:Thanks forhire, I know you are one of the folks on here who has plenty of innovation and machining ability up your sleeve. Regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749 ... I would do it simple. Catch them shutting it off with their foot once, a warning.Catch them twice, forfeit privilege of attending the class due to destruction of private property, which is against the law. Plus, it they broke it, seek legal restitution. Make them sign an agreement before they start & clearly explain the consequences if machinery is willfully damaged, etc. I would take a VERY strict, no tolerance stance to it & I bet they get the point real quick ...
Reply:That is a very good looking and performing switch cover.    I had never ever thought of cutting a hole in the male punch to get the tight bends.   I taught  Agribusiness Shop at a high school back in the 70s at a local school.   I learned through experience that there are a few  people that have no respect for themselves nor do they have respect for others or their equipment. You did a great job bringing this information regarding the switch to our attention.   Outstanding job.  richey
Reply:Nice looking covers. That sure will solve the problem. Its a shame thoe you have to make those. I have been brought up when something's not yours you take good care of it an treat it with respect. I've noticed when Ime using someone else's tools I seem to take better care of there tools then I do my own tools.PROUD   AMERICAN
Reply:Hello Fabn4Fun, your post did remind me of some items that I have thought about many times over the years and tends to be more or less prevalent with various geographical, social, and other influences. I grew up in a somewhat rural setting, plenty of availability to tools, knowledge through family, friends, teachers, mentors, and others. Very lax labor laws for youngsters. We got to learn any number of things and figure out a whole lot more. Family units were the norm not the exception. I feel very blessed to have had the experiences that I did as a youngster and on up to where I am now.I don't know that many of our youth are able to have these sorts of experiences anymore or at least not to the degree that so many of us "slightly older" folks have. I run into any number of young people who have no idea how to work with many of the tools that I take for granted. They have never disassembled their bicycles or even worked on them. They haven't used power tools nor do they understand how they work or the safety that should be understood and associated with them. The area that I live in and teach is high in single parent households, many dads as the heads of the household and as many moms in that position too. Time is a premium for these parents and many don't have the benefit of sharing the responsibilities of raising their families with others. This is often the scenario where kids don't have much exposure or sharing of the types of experiences that help to promote mechanical saavyness, common sense, or other traits that you and I take for granted. I believe that our government to some degree, society to a larger extent, and our general family make-up has had the sort of impact on many of our youth that has left us with the results that we are seeing in society today. The K12 system is fraught with the attitude that tends to promote 4 year colleges and beyond and not even consider "trades" as an option. Parents have been brain-washed right along with the educators regarding this attitude. "Common sense" would seem easy enough to apply with regard to education and would show and support the need for equal importance of the trades and associated training to provide for competence in these areas. There is some research and information available that currently states, in short, that of the 100% of jobs available to job-seekers 75% of the total number of job-seekers are applying for 25% of the jobs in their field or area of study. Of the other 75% of jobs available 25% of the job seekers who are qualified for them are applying. The 75% job-seeker figure refers to 4 year baccalaureate candidates, the 25% figure refers to qualified and trained professional/technical candidates. These sorts of figures certainly don't apply to all geographical areas of our country and they can be skewed by what many consider to be living wage wages versus what is often times offered. Most of the students that I see aren't even "kids", yet they haven't had the exposures to the trades and other "hands-on" life experiences, so in that regard they are "kids" and have to be taught accordingly. Most are experiencing a second opportunity to get a meaningful start on their lives and hopefully they are taking it seriously this time. Sorry for the thesis, just good for me to spell it out occasionally as a reminder to myself on the why's, how's, and what for's. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Those inverters deserve the kind of idiot-proofing you have devised! Well done!! However.....................I use my foot at work like...ALL the time...on the Lincoln AC225.  I only got 2 hands and 2 feet, and sometimes I am all stretched out under a trailer or motorhome and forgot to power up while holding up a hitch member or entry step while on my back on the creeper and here comes a size 11 Wolverine to make life right again. I aint never broke the switch yet....But I know what the gear can take, and I usually don't break stuff, and I usually try to fix my foibles; the others in the shop however...OMYGARSH City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Nice job! That is the type of product that could be sold to many!
Reply:Nice job. But at the community college I went to, most of the welder's were on carts, so it was easier to use a hand versus a foot. Are your's on the floor?"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Nice switch guards!   But no powder coat or at least some rattle can paint??????  I really like the solution.  Eloquent in it's effectiveness and simplicity.  No amount of brow-beating would be as effective.Miller didn't put them on simply as a matter of un-necessity.  They expect their product will be operated by conscientious persons, not reckless fumbling gorillas, and did not see the need for the expense.The students who treat the equipment recklessly are destined to either learn the hardway by suffering the expense of repairs when they damage their own equipment, or they will never learn and will suffer having to use broken tools and equipment and/or suffer limited opportunities and low pay from a blemished reputation.- MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Is this a class full of highschoolers that many do not want to be there, or a group of adults who are looking for a career?  Not that it should matter, but I cannot understand this from adults, but from high schoolers - maybe.. and it is sad  and frightnening how little regard for anything outside their own little digital lives this group has. Eventually they will be in charge..miller syncrowave 250hobart handler 140home made 400 amp engine driven in progress...
Reply:Hello jdschmiel, our students are comprised of anything from high school age up to well beyond retirement age. I know of the type of thing you refer to from high schoolers, have witnessed plenty of it when visiting them for recruitment purposes. We are a part of a program called running start, high school students can earn high school/college credits at the same time. We also have students who are in the process of being "reclaimed", they dropped out of high school and are being given a chance to get another start in school. Additionally, we have students who have earned a high school diploma after a hiatus from school or are English as a second language students who are receiving exposure to a trade for possible continuation. Then we get job-retraining folks and a host of others who either need welding to supplement their other types of training, upgrade industry tradespeople, and the gamut of others with welding interest.At some point we also have students who are interested in a career in welding and are working towards a 2 year associates degree. So there you have it, a pretty broad and mixed group of students. Thanks for the interest and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Hello Mondo, I was going for the "naked" look. Yeah, I often tend to be in a hurry and not too fond of the paint scenario, a flaw in my character. Thanks for the comments and thank you to everyone else for theirs as well. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Stick-man, we have the majority of our welders in fixed mounts. Although, we also have numerous ones on carts as well. In a post of mine some time ago I included photos of our "new" machines and you can see how they have been mounted. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:They'll find new ways to break stuff and slack off...trust me. Originally Posted by Stick-manat the community college I went to, most of the welder's were on carts, so it was easier to use a hand versus a foot. Are your's on the floor?
Reply:One of the most important attributes for an employee is respect for the tools his employer supplies.  That should be the first lesson in any trade class.  If you're a skilled welder but damage equipment because you just don't care, you are out the door anywhere I've ever worked.  If you're careful and dependable, as well as know how to weld, you'll find and keep a job if there is one to be had.I understand your frustration and intention in building the protective cover.  I favor the first class being devoted to why you take care of the equipment, along with explanation of a "you carelessly break it, you buy it" policy, in writing, signed by all students before they set foot in the shop.  Tell them the policy is like the real world -- if you're not interested in taking care of the shop equipment, there are plenty of people in line for your booth and you're out the door.  In the welding class I took, the demand was so high for limited seats that you had to stay up till midnight of the day registration opened and have your computer picking the class and hit "register" as soon as the 12:00 turned over.  No room for slackers or people who are just there to waste time.Those who are careless on purpose will find a way to break anything, despite your efforts.  Like the old saying "Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot."
Reply:Hello Mr. Moose, I thoroughly appreciate the content and intent of your post. Unfortunately, in that regard, our school is part of a state community college system and such punitive actions are not allowed within our system. We can remove a student from class after a rather lengthy process for infractions, but monetary charges are not a part of the equation(I have never excercised this option and generally have dealt with student issues internally). I understand that there are other states which have private training institutions that would likely be able to implement different rules and actions. Union training schools have an upper hand in this regard, they can simply kick the individual out of their program and the union for non-compliance should they choose to do so. As to speaking to care of tools and other issues such as that, orientations for students cover that topic and a myriad of others. Additionally, daily interaction with students is designed to further those topics and reinforce the why's and why for's. Ultimately, the student will be responsible for his/her decisions to heed to suggestions and examples of the results of their conduct and abilities in the working world. Employers aren't generally bound by any specific sorts of restraints for dealing with employee disregard for tools and equipment. We have likely all seen how folks who don't follow the rules are shown the door. Sometimes this is a learning moment for individuals who are new to the trade or those who are unwilling to make changes in their personal habits. Thanks again for the comments and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Hello Stick-man, you had asked about our machines and how they were set-up. I have included a picture here that gives that information. We have really limited space in our small shop so we have tried to maximize on the equipment foot-prints. Hope this shows why this has been an issue, appartently. Best regards, Allan Attached ImagesaevaldI will chime in as a student that just completed my first semester of working towards an associates degree at a community college here in Dallas.  My suggestion is to make the student repair the machine under your supervision.  Second time, banned for a class.  Of course I understand that you can not charge them and that is sad.  We had a $6000 lincoln ruined in the first week of school.  Fried the electronics and the teacher has to wait until next budget year to get it fixed.   It also scares me that people have no idea how to use tools.  Between school and my job at the Home Depot I am amazed more people are not killed just nailing a 2x4 together.  I hope your contraption works, but if it does not I would have a series of penalties for breaking of machines.
Reply:Originally Posted by aevaldHello Mr. Moose, I thoroughly appreciate the content and intent of your post. Unfortunately, in that regard, our school is part of a state community college system and such punitive actions are not allowed within our system. We can remove a student from class after a rather lengthy process for infractions, but monetary charges are not a part of the equation(I have never excercised this option and generally have dealt with student issues internally). I understand that there are other states which have private training institutions that would likely be able to implement different rules and actions. Union training schools have an upper hand in this regard, they can simply kick the individual out of their program and the union for non-compliance should they choose to do so. As to speaking to care of tools and other issues such as that, orientations for students cover that topic and a myriad of others. Additionally, daily interaction with students is designed to further those topics and reinforce the why's and why for's. Ultimately, the student will be responsible for his/her decisions to heed to suggestions and examples of the results of their conduct and abilities in the working world. Employers aren't generally bound by any specific sorts of restraints for dealing with employee disregard for tools and equipment. We have likely all seen how folks who don't follow the rules are shown the door. Sometimes this is a learning moment for individuals who are new to the trade or those who are unwilling to make changes in their personal habits. Thanks again for the comments and best regards, Allan
Reply:The covers look good...Box the switch in might help those "I can get it with my toe" guys
Reply:Originally Posted by AMC724The covers look good...Box the switch in might help those "I can get it with my toe" guys
Reply:Originally Posted by aevaldHello Mondo, I was going for the "naked" look. Yeah, I often tend to be in a hurry and not too fond of the paint scenario, a flaw in my character. Thanks for the comments and thank you to everyone else for theirs as well. Best regards, Allan
Reply:Great implementation of a  great idea. . .finally, a switch guide for those who wear pointed-toe footwear.  Last edited by denrep; 06-04-2013 at 12:49 AM.
Reply:Where there's a will, there's a way ... to turn on a welder with no hands Attached Images
Reply:Now those are some boots! Mr. Moose! great picture.Regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Holy crap!!  Those boots are actually real.....new dumbest thing ever!http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-footwear.htmlDave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.