Nonpayment, what to do about it?

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So....did some work for a guy a few months back, and things were rocky at best - but at the end of it, he owed me 1,057.50 and never paid up. he also told us we would be given 1099 forms, but that never happened. He also owes my friend something like 1300, his ex business parter several thousand, the forklift rental guy we used a few month rent(my friend and I actually got a call from him saying that dude wouldn't answer his calls and owed him lots of money, so he wanted to know where his forklift was. we met him at the shop and opened the doors so he could retrieve it. it was a couple of hundred miles away from where he was told it'd be. wow.) , etc etc etc. this guy is scum. a scam artist. I know he's broken several laws, but I've had a lot of different opinions given on whether  or not it's worth my time or money to go after him.  Anyone have similar experiences? What did you do? Thanks in advance.Millermatic 211 Miller Blue Fire 140@swiftwelding on Instagram
Reply:go after him, sometimes it isn't about the money, it's about getting satisfaction.  Enlist the others if you can.  Group beatings of a guy like that are better than doing it all by yourself.  However, if the others don't want to part take, beat him yourself.
Reply:file small claims. kind of sounds like he won't care but, seems like only legal recourse for you. maybe send registered demand letter telling him to pay or else you'll file suit.  worked for me on my last landlord when i couldn't get my deposit back . short of confronting the dude in person and seeing what happens. obviously you'd need to play that one smart or it escalates real quick. but ****, w/ my landlord i got paid after i made the warning but state law entitles me to a $200 penalty fee since he was late in returning my deposit.  might file small claims for that just to be a thorn in his side. dude is total scum.add'l thought. anyway to bring it up in a way that would publicly embarass him? that seems to make people agreeable real quick.
Reply:Drop a dime on hiz azz. Call your states attorneys office see what they'll do to help.Dave.
Reply:Hey Swifty,You might find a solution here.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ats-the-answer
Reply:I was under the same problems a few months back, now i'm very careful with all "new" Customers. What i do have is at the bottom of my invoice a few terms and conditions and they sign it if they want the work to go ahead, in those terms i state that all goods remain my property until paid for in full, and that i reserve the right to remove anything thats unpaid. Also a 25% deposit towards labor charges prior to the work commencing. That way you get 25% of what work you've done as well as the pleasure of ripping out any work which has already been completed due to none payment.if they don't sign, that they accept those terms then the work doesn't get done. Its not a nice thing to do, but with more and more idiots trying it on, its a foolproof way of getting your money or having fun ripping it out and watching their faces in horror
Reply:Older thread on the same subject: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ats-the-answerEdit: oops, way too slow.
Reply:Thanks, guys. read that whole thread. I love the idea of having all that in writing for customers, Gerry.  Unfortunately there was no paperwork working for this guy, other than me filling out the "application" when I got hired there. I figure in a few months, when he for the second year doesn't send over any kind of tax forms, I'll just inform the IRS and have his business seriously looked at.  He's already packed up and moved an hour or so away, I figure he's been doing similar things for a while. I'd like to do whatever I can to shut him down at this point...even if I don't get my money, I don't want him doing the same to others....sad thing is the system is so screwed up I'll probably end up getting in trouble if I do half the things I'm thinking of. thanks again for the advice.  btw, i did call a few attorneys and pretty much got told that they'd cost me too much for it to make sense.... stupid. it should be a lot easier for the little guy to get paid.Millermatic 211 Miller Blue Fire 140@swiftwelding on Instagram
Reply:Where I live, a verbal contract is binding. However, without documentation its a he said she said argument. I keep a log book especially for funny people I dont trust.Like Gerry said, " be careful with new people."Every state is a little different but it goes something like this . You have to start with a certified letter pre lien notice. You can/should send this out immediately .  After 30 days of non payment the second certified letter intent to lien goes out. After 60 days or 90 (I forget) you can send out the lien notice certified mail. Keep reciepts for the mail.Hope that helps.  I dont try to play lawyer, I just dont let anyone screw me anymore.If you dont already have one, I suggest getting the Tennessee Revised Statutes. Its probly on line.
Reply:Originally Posted by SwiftyThanks, guys. read that whole thread. I love the idea of having all that in writing for customers, Gerry.  Unfortunately there was no paperwork working for this guy, other than me filling out the "application" when I got hired there. I figure in a few months, when he for the second year doesn't send over any kind of tax forms, I'll just inform the IRS and have his business seriously looked at.  He's already packed up and moved an hour or so away, I figure he's been doing similar things for a while. I'd like to do whatever I can to shut him down at this point...even if I don't get my money, I don't want him doing the same to others....sad thing is the system is so screwed up I'll probably end up getting in trouble if I do half the things I'm thinking of. thanks again for the advice.  btw, i did call a few attorneys and pretty much got told that they'd cost me too much for it to make sense.... stupid. it should be a lot easier for the little guy to get paid.
Reply:Don't waste any more time or effort. Most likely your money never existed and he had no plan to ever pay you. Don't bother to plan revenge, your wasting your time and he doesn't care about you or his reputation either. Given the opportunity he will bring the "law" down on you in a second and he is by now much more familiar with it than you are. Consider it the cost of the lesson. Plan to avoid a recurrence, there are lots of rat bastards just like this guy out there. Just remember who he is and how he operates. Karma can be sweet especially if you deal it out. Be patient, he'll get his.---MeltedmetalLast edited by Meltedmetal; 11-16-2014 at 12:42 PM.
Reply:I once saw a quote that said something to the effect of:"the only place justice is ever actually served is in small claims court"Or revenge. The depth, scope, time frame and method is up to you. Call EPA, OSHA, MSHA, state labor for a bunch of BS and/or go drain the oil out of his machinery.Just remember there is no profit in revenge but its fun. Sounds like this guy earned it.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Originally Posted by SwiftyThanks, guys. read that whole thread. I love the idea of having all that in writing for customers, Gerry.  Unfortunately there was no paperwork working for this guy, other than me filling out the "application" when I got hired there. I figure in a few months, when he for the second year doesn't send over any kind of tax forms, I'll just inform the IRS and have his business seriously looked at.  He's already packed up and moved an hour or so away, I figure he's been doing similar things for a while. I'd like to do whatever I can to shut him down at this point...even if I don't get my money, I don't want him doing the same to others....sad thing is the system is so screwed up I'll probably end up getting in trouble if I do half the things I'm thinking of. thanks again for the advice.  btw, i did call a few attorneys and pretty much got told that they'd cost me too much for it to make sense.... stupid. it should be a lot easier for the little guy to get paid.
Reply:whatever you do don't take it out of his azz. over the years i've seen too many guys and a few women lose all for a moment's satisfaction. take legal action or let it go.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Ohh man. I think most of us have been through this. The only thing to do now is notify the courts. If you had your own business at the time this happened you could put a lien on his for failure of payment. If not, your either going to small claims court or your paying for an attorney. I've learned this lesson a few times. ((((No matter what!! Always get everything in writing!!))))) I have gotten burned for this and lost a lot of money. And if you do not get some of your money make sure to let everyone in the field know about this. The world of contractors sub-contractors and general contractors can be choppy at best.lol.
Reply:Originally Posted by MeltedmetalDon't waste any more time or effort. Most likely your money never existed and he had no plan to ever pay you. Don't bother to plan revenge, your wasting your time and he doesn't care about you or his reputation either. Given the opportunity he will bring the "law" down on you in a second and he is by now much more familiar with it than you are. Consider it the cost of the lesson. Plan to avoid a recurrence, there are lots of rat bastards just like this guy out there. Just remember who he is and how he operates. Karma can be sweet especially if you deal it out. Be patient, he'll get his.---Meltedmetal
Reply:Check your local laws. There are some states where if someone doesn't pay you for services rendered then it's considered theft. Sounds like with the amount of money that he owes it would be in the felony range. If it is in your state then get together everyone that you know that's been scammed by this guy and make a stop down at the police station. As a part of his probation (or parole if he gets jail time) he will be required to pay restitution and won't be able to get off probation until he does. And while he's on probation most probation officers will require him to tell anyone that they do business with that he's been convicted of refusal to pay for services rendered. Its a win win, you get your money, he learns his lesson, you don't have to pay anything up front, and it keeps other businesses from suffering the same fate.Craftsman 90 amp Arc welder
Reply:Originally Posted by MeltedmetalDon't waste any more time or effort. Most likely your money never existed and he had no plan to ever pay you. Don't bother to plan revenge, your wasting your time and he doesn't care about you or his reputation either. Given the opportunity he will bring the "law" down on you in a second and he is by now much more familiar with it than you are. Consider it the cost of the lesson. Plan to avoid a recurrence, there are lots of rat bastards just like this guy out there. Just remember who he is and how he operates. Karma can be sweet especially if you deal it out. Be patient, he'll get his.---Meltedmetal
Reply:When I got involved with the guy, it was my friend who called me - he found the job and had been working there for a few weeks before me. it was supposed to be he was hiring us as "contractors" and giving us a 1099 at the end of the year... first, let me just say I had never done anything as a contractor before, and as far as I was concerned as long as he paid me I didn't really care what he called us....  so the arrangement was , I got paid by the hour, with no extra for overtime, but no taxes would be held, so the paychecks all looked pretty nice when they came. the problem was that at least once every couple of months something would go wrong and he'd have a ton of excuses. there was a ton of drama, he actually went to jail for a week or so while we worked for him, and what little bit of contact we had with him at that point was very sketchy. then his girlfriend/bookkeeper supposedly ripped him off, but then they made up and he blamed the ex wife....crazy,crazy stuff that no one should have gone for. To be very honest, I had a terrible gut feeling almost the entire time I worked for this man, but kept going on with it because my friend had vouched for him and I'd gotten my brother on there, too. so it was great working with my brother and best friend.  in hindsight, this is probably part of the guy's master plan. hire someone. then hire a few people they know, so they're happy to be there. pay them decent money and take no taxes, make it seem like they're gtting a great deal, and then once they finally get sick of your ****, pack up and leave town. what a prick. ah well. I guess i'm chalking it up to experience and walking away. but, I do still intend to inform the IRS about why I don't have anything to claim for the first few months of this year.  I'll let them have fun dealing with him....which will probably result in me having to pay some taxes, but it's worth it if they get his *** for all the backwards business practices.   someone I work with now told me about how a friend of theirs once got ripped off....so he wrote that dollar amount in spray paint on his shop wall, and every time he had a really big job where he could get away with it, he'd add that amount into the labor cost. he got paid dozens of times over for what he'd been ripped off for. lolMillermatic 211 Miller Blue Fire 140@swiftwelding on Instagram
Reply:Originally Posted by Gerry1964I was under the same problems a few months back, now i'm very careful with all "new" Customers. What i do have is at the bottom of my invoice a few terms and conditions and they sign it if they want the work to go ahead, in those terms i state that all goods remain my property until paid for in full, and that i reserve the right to remove anything thats unpaid. Also a 25% deposit towards labor charges prior to the work commencing. That way you get 25% of what work you've done as well as the pleasure of ripping out any work which has already been completed due to none payment.if they don't sign, that they accept those terms then the work doesn't get done. Its not a nice thing to do, but with more and more idiots trying it on, its a foolproof way of getting your money or having fun ripping it out and watching their faces in horror
Reply:Chances would likely be very slim in getting any money this guy, a tough lesson learned. After 30 years doing this I look at 'new' customers carefully ,as in why are they suddenly coming to me with the offer of work?. I usually have a chat with them and after a while you can tell what they are like and go from there,  it averages about 50-50,the bad ones........ I send to the competition..
Reply:People don't pay me, I set Killer on 'em"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammPeople don't pay me, I set Killer on 'em
Reply:Nothing is worse than getting screwed on a deal, been there, done that, its at least cash up front for materials, and half now half later. Ive found that honest people have no problem coughing up the first half and materials, its the slimy **** suckers that will give you a hard time about that half now half later thing. thats how I tell them apart anywaysMiller Spoolmate 200 w/t S-52 WirefeederMM 211'09 Miller Trailblazer 302
Reply:Did you work for him or do work for him? If you did what did you do? If you DID work for him, if whatever you worked on has a legal title, put a lean on it, or find a mechanic or somebody who will. If theres no titles involved throw your O/A in your truck, find whatever you did for him and go to town. Tell him you reweld it when you get some franklins."in the halls of justice, the only justice is in the halls."