Wasted a tank of argon...

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I'm trying to teach myself how to tig.....so I already have a hf tig welder,had a full tank of argon,ordered some tungsten and stainless filler wire.The tungsten came first so I was practicing just running a bead.Later that night I couldn't remember if I had turned off  the gas or not....well a few days later my tank is bone dry...what a bone head move.Not even sure I want to refill it since I really havent had much use for it....oh well
Reply:I think that's a fairly common mistake. You'll likely never do it again. Look on the bright side. At least it wasn't an acetylene cylinder you left open.
Reply:Originally Posted by zankI think that's a fairly common mistake. You'll likely never do it again.
Reply:Good tip. I'm pretty anal about closing the valve, even when just changing set-ups. I'm cheap like that.
Reply:If you open the valve all the way until it "seats" in the open position, do you think it will have less leakage?
Reply:I'm a real nazi about tanks at work. we have guys that will use a torch and either leave the tanks open or shut the valves but not bleed the hoses...for days. It makes me furious. my last job you could loose your job over that. No exceptions. it would be worse with O/A but remember, guys have died over argon leaks (suffocated). I personally have gotten pulmonary edema from being confined with too much argon in the air. I wouldnt wis hit  on the worst of people. Brainstick- only a 1/4 turn more after the valve opens... thems the rulez
Reply:^Grim^ - you are partially correct, those are the rules for acetylene, but not for high pressure tanks.High pressure tanks (and propane) get turned all the way out.  The valve seats in the open position so there is not a leak around the stem.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:thanks dave! i was stuck in thought.  That is indeed the way we do it.
Reply:It would be a good idea to leak test your setup. Spray some leak detection spray on all connections to see if it starts bubbling. If you have a small bottle you can dunk it in tap water (with pressure on).I think the "open the valve all the way" is just old recommendations being repeated over and over again even if they are not relevant anymore. All modern valves I have found data on have o-rings on the valve stem so they will never leak unless something is broken. Before WWII the o-ring wasn't invented yet so back then it made sense. Looking at the safety data sheet on gases it never says anything about the valve having to be fully open which it whould if the valves are leaking by design (since most gases are hazardous).
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianstickIf you open the valve all the way until it "seats" in the open position, do you think it will have less leakage?
Reply:Originally Posted by IamVinceI'm trying to teach myself how to tig.....so I already have a hf tig welder,had a full tank of argon,ordered some tungsten and stainless filler wire.The tungsten came first so I was practicing just running a bead.Later that night I couldn't remember if I had turned off  the gas or not....well a few days later my tank is bone dry...what a bone head move.Not even sure I want to refill it since I really havent had much use for it....oh well
Reply:As mentioned the only way your cylinder went dry was you  have something leaking...That doesn't mean if you don't have a system leak you should leave your bottle onbut that leak can introduce Oxygen and you don't want that.......  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Well Oscar that is what I wanted to end up doing.I was given a little HF tig welder and already had a tank of argon for mig welding aluminum(that I also suck at)Trust me I'm not planning on making any trailersBCThe torch has a valve (most likely left open also)and I had unplugged the welder.Last edited by IamVince; 04-14-2013 at 02:01 PM.
Reply:They say you're still a TIG rookie until you've burned thru a tank of argon or two...  So the big question is...  Does this count?Seriously, you might also check for leaks anyway.  For some reason i have trouble at the brass flow meter to tank valve joint... On different machines at different locations.Cheap way to check?  Paper cup, small squirt of dishwashing soap, fill cup up 1/3 with water. .. Mix with small brush.  Apply very wet to everything, you'll easily see the leak.  I use my workbench / drill press metal shavings brush.  Cleans the brush at the same time, nothing extra to buy or store.  My garage is full...  No room to store another toothpick.
Reply:Originally Posted by GrimI'm a real nazi about tanks at work. we have guys that will use a torch and either leave the tanks open or shut the valves but not bleed the hoses...for days. It makes me furious. my last job you could loose your job over that. No exceptions. it would be worse with O/A but remember, guys have died over argon leaks (suffocated). I personally have gotten pulmonary edema from being confined with too much argon in the air. I wouldnt wis hit  on the worst of people. Brainstick- only a 1/4 turn more after the valve opens... thems the rulez
Reply:Originally Posted by IamVinceWell Oscar that is what I wanted to end up doing.I was given a little HF tig welder and already had a tank of argon for mig welding aluminum(that I also suck at)Trust me I'm not planning on making any trailersBCThe torch has a valve (most likely left open also)and I had unplugged the welder.
Reply:had a similar one happen when we got two new track torches. They were sent without check valves or FB arrestors. Guys got in a hurry to play with the new toy,Didnt check or care. i guess it flashed or something. i ran towards the commotion to find the fuel gauge pegged with a lovely high pitched hiss comming from the Reg. someone hit the shop kill button and we had a few tense mins bleeding it off in the dark.  The regulator was ruined, and we could have all played the acetylene Missle dance. Live and learn i guess. Bossman was on the phone with the company (out of washington,forgot the name) yelling for quite a while, and this was 2nd shift too pretty late into the night.
Reply:For the 10000th time on this site..FUEL gases 1-1/2 turns... SHIELDING gases / OXYGEN wide open.REAL TRUCKS DON'T HAVE SPARK PLUGS
Reply:Originally Posted by OscarI understand wanting to learn to tig if you were given a tig welder, and already had an argon bottle,  but that doesn't explain why learn on stainless rather than on mild steel.  It's a pain in the rear to get things right, lemme tell ya.....
Reply:Originally Posted by Old SkoolFor the 10000th time on this site..FUEL gases 1-1/2 turns... SHIELDING gases / OXYGEN wide open.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveAnd remember Propane is the exception - it is full open like the high pressure ones because of the valve design.Dave J.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianstickDoes that include the 20 lb. tank on my gas grill?
Reply:Originally Posted by IamVinceHere is why I'm trying to learn.I installed these pre made handrails and the latch at the gates had to be 48"...I bolted 1/4 x 2" strap to the handrail...it works ok but with a strong back it would be better.We are leaving it as is for now but maybe later the owner may want the strong backs welded in.
Reply:Originally Posted by IamVinceWell Oscar that is what I wanted to end up doing.I was given a little HF tig welder and already had a tank of argon for mig welding aluminum(that I also suck at)Trust me I'm not planning on making any trailersBCThe torch has a valve (most likely left open also)and I had unplugged the welder.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveIt does.  I worked for a propane company for 5 years and that is what every safety trainer told us about the valve design.Dave J.Originally Posted by Pete.S.It would be a good idea to leak test your setup. Spray some leak detection spray on all connections to see if it starts bubbling. If you have a small bottle you can dunk it in tap water (with pressure on).I think the "open the valve all the way" is just old recommendations being repeated over and over again even if they are not relevant anymore. All modern valves I have found data on have o-rings on the valve stem so they will never leak unless something is broken. Before WWII the o-ring wasn't invented yet so back then it made sense.
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlipYep, Yep.  Crank 'er out until she squeaks.  My hunting partner is also my propane supplier, the guy lives and breathes propane.....  smells like methyl percapitan.....  Has to use a lot of scent killer........I always worried about my valving on my triple 500's squeaking.  He told me that propane is dry so the squeak is normal
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanBut your comment about modern valve stems is total BS.  They are still double seated.  O-rings are not designed to take continuous pressure at those levels, and in any case, "modern" valves are still back seated:http://weldingweb.com/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=14
Reply:Argon is cheap get some more.. An afternoon at Madam Ho's is not cheap, never waste that.Hey~!! It's a hobby. It's not supposed to make sense~!!
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveFunny, sometimes in stores, when I walked in people thought they had a leak The odor gets strong on your clothes after a while.Dave J.
Reply:Originally Posted by SidecarFlipPropane is odorless and back in the day, suppliers added the stink which now is metered in at the tank farm (or underground storage caverns ae is the case here).  My hunting partner/supplier had an issue with one of his girlfriend's ex boyfriends (he's married now and I don't know if it's the same gal) but, he 'accidently' spilled a quantity of methyl percapitan in the ex boyfriend's front seat in his Corvette.  He had to sell the car......Sucks to be the boyfriend.