New Yard Trailer Project

admin

The plan is to use some of the scrap around the shop to build a 5' x 6' 4 wheel trailer to pull behind my Cub Cadet LT1045 this spring, to pick up fallen linbs and other debris from this winter.  The deck and rear axle are not a problem, I have the design right and the rear axle is going on as we speak.  My Issue is how to set up the front steering.  I have been looking for a decent picture or drawing of how to set it up.  Anyone out there ever build a 4 wheel trailer who might also have some pictures or drawing they can share?  To clarify, I only want the front axle to do the steering, not a 4 wheel steering setup (which is all I was able to find online).
Reply:I've got a pretty simple one that I can get pictures tonight.basically you've got a ladder set up with spindles on the ends and a central arm(tow arm) that attaches to either side of the ladder and the bottom extends past the frame and connects to tie rods. The Tow arm turns the front wheels as it turns. Attached is a crude drawing. Hopefully it will make sense. sorry it's sideways. anyway, The red is the yoke and the spindles, the black is the frame and the tierods. Attached ImagesThere are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:After some thought, and after I started this thread, I had a brainstorm and this is what I came up with.Last edited by rwmccormack; 04-03-2013 at 01:57 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerI've got a pretty simple one that I can get pictures tonight.basically you've got a ladder set up with spindles on the ends and a central arm(tow arm) that attaches to either side of the ladder and the bottom extends past the frame and connects to tie rods. The Tow arm turns the front wheels as it turns. Attached is a crude drawing. Hopefully it will make sense. sorry it's sideways. anyway, The red is the yoke and the spindles, the black is the frame and the tierods.
Reply:nope, just has 1 axle instead of a frame to hold the spindles. your's is far simpler. The one I drew up was from the dump trailer that I use for my riding mower. It's poorly designed as the yoke portion isn't strong enough and buckles if backing up with much load. just cause the cart says it'll carry 1200 lbs doesn't mean you can back up 1200 lbs. lol.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:First Pics of the trailer.  Used Flux core wire in a Chicago Electric MIG/Wire welder.  Wire speed 5 power setting 6.  (not happy with the weld quality, so I will grind and reweld with the Miller Thunderbolt)Remember, this is scrap steel, rust was removed and so was the paint in the weld areas.  Framing is tack welded into place and final welding will happen later.The wheels I am using came off of several old riding mowers I stripped and scrapped.This is a large piece of scrap steel I recovered from another trailer project I did last fall, I am using it for this project.The deck of the trailer flipped over with framing tacked.  The wheel is there in preparation for the rear axle mock up.Jack stands used to help determine the spacing and height of the axle support assy.The first piece of the rear axle support system are in place.Playing with the "A" frame support for the rear axle.Simple Axle made of 4' long 3/4" round bar with a cotter pin hole and washer to hold the wheel on.  What you can't see is that the wheel has a zerk fitting on the back.  This wheel will turn, not the whole axle, so as long as it is kept well greased, it should be fine.This pic showes the "axle tube" that was welded to the support structure.  The axle tube will have a washer between the tube and the wheel as well as a zerk fitting for grease.That's it for now, after everything is tacked in place and all of the geometry is right, I'll make a pass along all of the weld points with the Miller Thunderbolt you see in the background of the pic above.  Between my "over engineering" and the good solid welds I get with that machine, I should have very few problems out of this light duty trailer.More pics to follow.
Reply:What, No dump feature? lol, so far so good.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:You could simplify the build and still have a four wheel trailer by just making it a tandem axle trailer instead. Only six feet long, it doesn't really need a front steering set up. Just install the other axle directly in front of the one you already have. The tractor can support the tongue well enough at that end and any extra weight on the rear tires only adds more traction.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerWhat, No dump feature? lol, so far so good.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauYou could simplify the build and still have a four wheel trailer by just making it a tandem axle trailer instead. Only six feet long, it doesn't really need a front steering set up. Just install the other axle directly in front of the one you already have. The tractor can support the tongue well enough at that end and any extra weight on the rear tires only adds more traction.
Reply:Well,  OK then, you didn't explain at first that this is to be a learning experience as well as a useful end product. Just figured I would mention it. Carry on. Looks like you have a design going on that will work.
Reply:you don't need electronics and hydrolics for a dump feature. you can do it oldschoo with a acme thread and a shaft (think scissor lift) of just do a hand tilt. There's also the cable winch tilt option. tons of ways to make her drop her but to the ground. Imagination man, imagination. lol.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I have thought about rebuilding the frame on my yard trailer/mower cart.Same reason as ThorsHammer.  Although I usually don't have alot of weight in it at once.Pondering keeping it setup with the front steering or changing it to a solid tounge (that will pivot up and down, with the end able to swivel) and putting some heavy casters on the front.I believe it was Northern tool I saw some, but that may not be heavy enough for what you are doing either.  That would make it alot easier to back up.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammeryou don't need electronics and hydrolics for a dump feature. you can do it oldschoo with a acme thread and a shaft (think scissor lift) of just do a hand tilt. There's also the cable winch tilt option. tons of ways to make her drop her but to the ground. Imagination man, imagination. lol.
Reply:LMAO, Precious makes life more interesting.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Started laying out the front Axle assembly.Front viewSide view, trying to get the height right.First part of the steering axle is formed.  Still needs some cleanup work but i think it will do the job.For some reason, I gouldn't get a decent weld last night.  This will work, but I don't like it.  I may still gring it out and do it again.The above is 2 hours of work, I got so disgusted with my welds that I called it a night.  Today after work I will be grinding out all of the bad welds and redoing the whole lot of them.
Reply:Well damn, Now I'm more interested in the build of your welding helmet shown in Pic #3There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerWell damn, Now I'm more interested in the build of your welding helmet shown in Pic #3
Reply:It's not right to keep animals caged up. Let them out. they make life more interesting. If you can't live with the dangerous ones, you shouldn't keep them. lol.I have a feeling that there isn't much I Can say that wont let precious out. I'm ok with that.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:]mwuhahahaha   yes...A manually operated dump feature....kind cool.....retro, yet edgy.....no, nO, NO!  Get back in your cage precious!  There'll be none of that nonsense here.Never say the "I" word Thor, precious will escape and lead me astray.  LMAO, Precious makes life more interesting.[/QUOTE].THOR!  You let precious out of the cage again!!!!Come here you slippery beast! [/QUOTE]]It's not right to keep animals caged up. Let them out. they make life more interesting. If you can't live with the dangerous ones, you shouldn't keep them. lol.I have a feeling that there isn't much I Can say that wont let precious out. I'm ok with that.[/QUOTE]You seem to be afraid of your Imagination, you shouldn't be. Let Imagination out of it's cage to run wild and free. You say it will lead you astray, but it will probably lead you down the path you are seeking but can't find by yourself. Imagination can be your friend if you let it. That's one of the beauties of welding. If your Imagination can dream it up, you can make it happen, but only if you let your friend Imagination help you with it.Let Precious out of the cage and cut the cage apart and use it in one of your projects. I'm sure Precious will help you come up with a use for this material to use for something other than a cage.Last edited by Bistineau; 04-06-2013 at 07:57 AM.
Reply:You seem to be afraid of your Imagination, you shouldn't be. Let Imagination out of it's cage to run wild and free. You say it will lead you astray, but it will probably lead you down the path you are seeking but can't find by yourself. Imagination can be your friend if you let it. That's one of the beauties of welding. If your Imagination can dream it up, you can make it happen, but only if you let your friend Imagination help you with it.Let Precious out of the cage and cut the cage apart and use it in one of your projects. I'm sure Precious will help you come up with a use for this material to use for something other than a cage.[/QUOTE]You are an evil man Bistineau, the frenzy you have created could lead to projects getting created and finished in new and innovative ways, ideas could spread, cats and dogs living in harmony.....PURE pandalerium!!!  Ohh the horror!
Reply:Been working on the steering knuckle for the yard trailer, thanks to Bistineau letting precious free , I worked on this until the wee hours of the morning.  Today I did the first mock up of part of the front axle.  Started out with a 6" piece of threaded steel pipeAdded another piece of pipe to hold the axleI added gussets and the axle shaft as well as the steering arm. Drilled the holes in the axle housing and cut down the steering knuckle to accommodate steel and nylon washers.  These next few pics are different views of what it looks like assembled.  I'll try to remember to take more pics as I build the second one.This is a good one of the axle shaftMore Pics of the finished steering Knuckle.  The White stuff between the steel washers is 1/2 inch thick nylon washers with graphite grease on them.  This should reduce the friction when the trailer turns.  Depending on the stresses involved, I may add a gusset between the steering arm and the axle shaft to give it more strength.  We'll see if I need to after the first few times I use it. Now I have to fabricate the second one, mount it to the axle, mount the axle and mount the axle assy to the trailer.  More pics to come.
Reply:Be sure and do a quick study of the ackermann steering principles. Ideal for those slow moving farm and ranch vehicles. Has to do with the inside wheel turning more than the outside wheel and the length of the steering arm whether in front of----or behind the axle itself."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Thanks Sandy I needed that. (the ackermann steering principles) There's Gold in them there posts.
Reply:@Sandy,Since the trailer is front steer I measured From the center of the Axel to the center of the yolk and wrote that distance down. Next I measured off that distance from the center of the front Axel to and imaginary point in front of the trailer. Then I ran the string from the kingpin through the tie rod to the imaginary point in front of the trailer. Based upon these measurements, I got a fairly accurate Ackerman steering profile.  .5 degrees of toe should be fine for a low speed (well less than 10mph) trailer.  The reality is, that comes out to less than 1/8 of an inch difference in the steering rods that attach to the tongue.  For this application, since it will never see highway use, the toe is so negligible that it really isn't needed (in my opinion). Good point though, failing to heed Ackerman's Principles in a car or highway use 4 wheel trailer is just asking for trouble.Last edited by rwmccormack; 04-06-2013 at 06:06 PM.Finished fabing the front axle components this afternoon.  More pics as promised.The second steering knuckle (without the axle welded in)View of the back side (not THAT backside Thor)A good shot of the steering armHere the axle is fully assembled and ready for the support structure to be fabricated.Lots more to do, just not today.  Still need to drill and tap all of the zerk fittings for the lube points, fab the tongue, grind everything and then paint.  Unfortunately, I have to knock off and finish some college homework.  I might have a chance to work on it some more tomorrow, hope so I would like to get this done and get some yard work caught up.Last edited by rwmccormack; 04-06-2013 at 06:02 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by rwmccormackYou seem to be afraid of your Imagination, you shouldn't be. Let Imagination out of it's cage to run wild and free. You say it will lead you astray, but it will probably lead you down the path you are seeking but can't find by yourself. Imagination can be your friend if you let it. That's one of the beauties of welding. If your Imagination can dream it up, you can make it happen, but only if you let your friend Imagination help you with it.Let Precious out of the cage and cut the cage apart and use it in one of your projects. I'm sure Precious will help you come up with a use for this material to use for something other than a cage.
Reply:Nice trailer mate.  I was thinking of doing removable sides for this one as well.  Figured they would come in handy when I do the brush/limb cleanup in the spring and the leaf cleanup in the fall.  Just pull up to the burn pile, pull the side off and let everything fall on the pile.
Reply:Originally Posted by rwmccormack@Sandy,Good point though, failing to heed Ackerman's Principles in a car or highway use 4 wheel trailer is just asking for trouble.
Reply:Ackerman is just as important on a yard trailer as a road vehicle. unless of course you want trenches dug in your lawn every time you turn.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Just checking in to see if you have made any more progress on this project, or if precious has run amuck and stopped all forward momentum. Gettin kinda curous as to how this turns out.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauJust checking in to see if you have made any more progress on this project, or if precious has run amuck and stopped all forward momentum. Gettin kinda curous as to how this turns out.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerIt's going to come back with a rear dumping and side dumping options and have a removable battering ram attachment.
Reply:If it were me, I'd say both.  Just a matter of which pin you remove before lifting.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Looks like this project has been abandoned, haven't seen anything more about it. Either that, or it's completed, and he's soooooo busy using it he hasn't had time to log back in and show how it turned out. Personally I think he just gave up trying to finish it.
Reply:I doubt he gave up. more than likely Precious has gone rampant and when he does come back it's going to look like a dragon, complete with flapping wings, flames and the legs actually walk along instead of using wheels at all.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerI doubt he gave up. more than likely Precious has gone rampant and when he does come back it's going to look like a dragon, complete with flapping wings, flames and the legs actually walk along instead of using wheels at all.
Reply:You know, you could be onto something there.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:To those who have followed this thread, I apologize for not posting in a while.Yes precious has eluded capture, no the trailer isn't finished, yes I have been extremely busy with the spring planting season, college,my teenager, and my day job.  No the trailer does not have wings....yet.  I AM considering the dump feature though.  Thankfully, I have caught up on the work for local farmers.  Lots of broken plows, mowers, balers, and other stuff this year.  I even got to rebuild an old JD bar mower from the 60's.  It is good money, but with everything else going on I have been way busier than last year.  Nearly finished with college, 31 Aug I graduate with a 3.99 GPA....Not bad for a 45 year old guy.  Thankfully the teenager graduated HS this month and actually has a job too.   Maybe soon she will have her own place?  Now then....thanks to the nefarious efforts of Thor and Bistineau.   Precious has been a big help lately with some of the REALLY old equipment I have been repairing/rebuilding.  She has even been nagging me to get back to work on the trailer.  Will post some pics later this week of the progress made.  With any luck, I will have it completed this weekend.
Reply:"it's alive!"There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by rwmccormackYou are an evil man Bistineau, the frenzy you have created could lead to projects getting created and finished in new and innovative ways, ideas could spread, cats and dogs living in harmony.....PURE pandalerium!!!  Ohh the horror!
Reply:Finished all of the welding last night...errr...this morning.  When I get home from my day job, I will take some pictures and post them.  Now that it is assembled, it is time for cleanup and paint.
Reply:And to think at one point you called me "an evil man", when in fact I was trying to help you and you didn't even realize it. Without having done this, you may have never been able to repair/rebuild that old equipment, because little Precious would have still been locked away in that old cage somewhere not being of ANY help to ANY body. Glad to see your back and not locked up in the cage where Precious has been kept for far too long.[/QUOTE]You ARE an evil man, Thor is too!    Precious tried to lock me away, so we cut up her cage and used the parts to rebuild a plow.  From cages to plowshares, creativity that enables the farmer to feed the world.  Hmmm...  I like that, may have to use it as a slogan.
Reply:HEY! I resemeble that remark!There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Good news and bad news.  The good news is...The trailer is finished.  The bad news is...my computer at home has died a horrible death.  The magic blue smoke finally escaped from the old girl.    I guess i will have to convince the Chief Financial Officer (my wife) to get me a new one.So, here are the last few pic's I took with my handy dandy cell phone thingy.  not the best pics, but they will show the last few steps.  I will be adding sides later, that became evident this weekend when I was moving some brush.  other than that, I am happy with it.  The turn radius is good, and it was able to carry 600 pounds of wood with no issues.  During tight turns, the tire rubs the supports before the steering arm hits the frame.  This is a fair trade off and keeps me from bending/breaking bits if I get too aggressive in the turns.  I could, and probably will, flip the steering arms to the backside of the axle to see what that will do for me.  I doubt it will affect the turning radius though, the tire will still rub the front struts.  Hmmmm.... may need to redesign those.  Anyway, without further ado here are the final pic's.
Reply:what happened to the dump feature?and the only way to fix the rub is to either redesign the front braces, or redesign your spindles to make them wider.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by rwmccormackGood news and bad news.  The good news is...The trailer is finished.  .  I will be adding sides later, that became evident this weekend when I was moving some brush.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerwhat happened to the dump feature?and the only way to fix the rub is to either redesign the front braces, or redesign your spindles to make them wider.
Reply:I thought I was was going to have a nice easy weekend to "play in the shop" this weekend.  I even got started building brackets and the removable wooden sides for the trailer.  Instead, the household six element decided that we had to "spend some time together".  Ended up spending the majority of Saturday AND Sunday in Loiusville "shopping".  AND WE DIDN'T EVEN LOOK AT TOOLS!!!!!!  Really, even precious was getting restless.  So, I have put my foot down.  (Very carefully ) This weekend I WILL be working in the shop and trying to finish as many of my personal projects as possible.  Pics of the wooden trailer side will follow.
Reply:lol, I get two days/evenings every other week to do my own thing. either riding ATV's, working in the shop, or playing with my new forge, or just spending time with friends. I must choose my time wisely, and where I put my foot down. But if it's her project I get free time to work on it. lol. I haven't had to put my foot down in a while, but I do have to be pacient.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger