Propane torch question

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This will sound a bit dopey.I need a torch to heat up some metal occasionally to bend it. Is it possible to get something that will operate off a BBQ gas bottle? I don't want to buy a tank for something that will be used about twice a year.ScottYeah, I carry.House keys, wallet, some change, usually a newspaper, maybe a pen.
Reply:Sure. Probably a dopey answer, but with a flame temperature in excess of 4500F, oxypropane can melt steel (about 2500F) so bending is possible if the heat output of the torch and work volume of the piece are sized appropriately. My small brazing torch runs off a BBQ bottle thru a standard regulator, but I'd never attempt bending a railroad spike with it.XMT304 (school)SP125+ (home)HF 4x6 BandsawGood judgement comes from experience and much of that comes from bad judgement.
Reply:I use propane for heating and cutting around here as it is cheaper than acetylene and have a fuel/O2 torch set just for that.  For annealing and preheat I use a "weed burner" from Harbor Freight and a 20 lb. propane bottle. http://www.harborfreight.com/propane...ter-91037.html For small soldering jobs I use a 20 lb. bottle and a hose assembly made to replace the little bottles on camp stoves and space heaters and a plain old propane torch for the small bottles.RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Great.So it seems like I can use a torch attached to a BBQ gas cylinder.Now, I just realised that over here we use LPG for BBQs. Is that the same as propane?I'm only ever going to heating up small stuff. I'm doing something for a mate on the weekend and we need to bend some 25mm x 3mm flat.Yeah, I carry.House keys, wallet, some change, usually a newspaper, maybe a pen.
Reply:If you want to do some serious heating on a budget, make one of those burners that are used by blacksmiths.  They are pretty simple.  You may need one of the higher pressure regulators, not a dinky one for a small BBQ. http://zoellerforge.com/zburner.htmlhttp://zoellerforge.com/sidearm.htmlAlso search on "Ron Reil burner".LPG is a propane/butane blend, though it may be predominately one or the other."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:That's OK Scott, we expect you to sound a bit dopey... ( Oh wait, did I just type that... Opps! )As Oldendum mentioned there are a number of cheap easy ways to make small propane "forges". Ron has a number of them shown on his site. A couple of fire bricks and a semi decent propane torch will work just fine. It may take a bit to get the bricks heat soaked though if the burner is on the smaller side. Also keep the forge volume down to a minimum with small single burner set ups.Charcoal or coal forges are also fairly simple to build..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You don't need a forge set up to use one of the burners that you can make up from piping parts, have seen them used as post/per heaters by blacksmiths for anvil builds/repairs.They work better then a H F  weed burner and run on a lot less gas doing it.Joe
Reply:You need a flamethrower "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:I have a propane/ oxy torch which is great. Cheaper than acet. and you've always got spare gas for the BBQ!!  The cutting head is what I use when heat is needed. Haven't had the need for anything else. Works very well and is good for precise heating.3mm is very bendable by hand or using a little fixture or just clamping in a vise and having at it, if your so inclined. Unless you're a hard cord smithing traditionalist and must cherry heat everything to bend, even 20ga. Ha ha. Weed burner will heat a wide area so is not good for precise bending. A little forge is great and is more efficient burning than the weed torch, but is more involved to make or expensive to by. Also, if not a problem given the task at hand, a kerf cut can be made at the spot needing to be bent, about a 1mm deep. This will give you a nice, crisp inside corner. once bent, run a sm. bead on the outside, grind, and it will look clean and pro. You didn't mention what the project was, so I'm just chiming in to add to the others good ideas. What are you making?200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Thanks all. It's good that it seems I can use the BBQ gas cylinder that I have. I won't be needing a forge - just a torch I can aim at something.You didn't mention what the project was, so I'm just chiming in to add to the others good ideas. What are you making?
Reply:You will need an oxygen bottle also.  You can get all the tips at your local lws for an oxy propane setup.  We use natural gas and oxygen at work for cutting.  I absolutely loathe it!!!!  I finally figured out how to get a decent cut after reading a technical bulletin that explained the difference between oxy/natural gas and oxy/acetylene.
Reply:Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265You will need an oxygen bottle also.
Reply:You will need an oxygen bottle also. You can get all the tips at your local lws for an oxy propane setup. We use natural gas and oxygen at work for cutting.
Reply:O2 isn't just used for cutting. The flame temperature of a torch burning propane using oxygen (100% O2) is much higher than that from a propane torch (e.g. bernzomatic) burning propane using air (20% O2)XMT304 (school)SP125+ (home)HF 4x6 BandsawGood judgement comes from experience and much of that comes from bad judgement.
Reply:My BIG rosebud runs off propane.  I use this one for pulling 2 inch thick steel hubs of 7 inch diameter shafts with .003+" interference fit... along with my 100ton puck jack.
Reply:This guy makes some really nice Ron Reil-type burners.http://www.hybridburners.com/products.html"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:LPG is a propane/butane blend, though it may be predominately one or the other.[/QUOTE]That's funny, LPG stands for Liquid Propane Gas, or for short, propane.
Reply:LPG =  Liquefied Petroleum GasThe propane song:Last edited by Oldendum; 08-21-2013 at 09:17 AM."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:As DSW said, you can make a quicky forge with just fire bricks. Nice thing is you can add and subtract bricks to fit the size of the work, making the forge just big enough and not wasting gas heating up extra surface. That's what we've got set up in my shop. Seems MIG tip's get used with good success for building the burners. Btu sounds like a forge ain't what yer lookin' for any how, so I digress...If you do get a tank of oxy to go with the propane, the torch is different than an oxy/acetylene one, fyi. Love to see pic's now that you've deepened the mystery with your description. Sounds like you may be looking at tight curves rather than 90* bends, so that eliminates my kerf suggestion. Slight hijack:76GMC mentioned his rosebud torch, which I'd like to have, but my LWS guy says they are dangerous to use with propane. I can't recall, but I think it was due to the volume/min of gas consumption. Maybe the reg. gets frozen? Can any one with experience can shed light on this? Might be useful info here, for decision making.200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:A 'weed burner' type torch (as mentioned above) running air/propane can put out a rather large amount of heat (Btu/hr).They can also suck a 20 lb BBQ propane cylinder empty in a rather short amount of time. And 'frost' the outside of the tank rather impressively (from the rather fast withdrawal rate of said large amount of fuel being withdrawn).  Enough so to negatively impact the withdrawal rate of the fuel gas from the now icy-cold cylinder.   IIRC, I had the tank temperature down to the negative teens F or so.If planning on using a 'weed burner' type torch on a semi-continuous basis (as opposed to the 'designed' purpose of full-blast output for a few minutes at a time and then back to 'idle' until you move over to the next weed), IMNSHO you will need a bigger tank than a 20 lb BBQ tank.  Rig up some firebricks on a steel plate and trap a whole bunch of the torch heat in your 'forge' and heat things up that way.Or get a pile of coal and run a forced-air blower through that and heat your piece(s) that way.An oxy-fuel 'rosebud' can certainly be used, but that will use your fuel gas as well as oxygen.  Again, at a rather prodigeous rate (depending on the rosebud size and how much gas you are feeding it).And Scott, LPG means "liquified petroleum gas".    Usually a blend/mix of mostly propane and some butane.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_petroleum_gasHmmm, 25mm x 3mm thick, convert to US units is some 1" wide by 1/8" thick flat bar.  A weed-burner torch head is about 3-4" in diameter, so if you want to heat an area that big on your bar you can use that torch head.  A plumber's-type torch head (in my experience) doesn't quite heat up that size flat bar quickly enough to not be annoying when you are trying to get some work done.  A rosebud would probably be a 'better' choice there if you need heat but not as spread-out as the weedburner type torch.YMMV.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by bert the welder76GMC mentioned his rosebud torch, which I'd like to have, but my LWS guy says they are dangerous to use with propane. I can't recall, but I think it was due to the volume/min of gas consumption. Maybe the reg. gets frozen? Can any one with experience can shed light on this? Might be useful info here, for decision making.
Reply:Thanks again, all. Bert, it's not curves or bends. So that deepens the mystery even further - sorry. Hopefully my mate Dan will come round this weekend and start work on it. I'm just providing the space and the tools. He's very particular and pretty slow as a consequence, so don't hold your breath waiting for the pics.Yeah, I carry.House keys, wallet, some change, usually a newspaper, maybe a pen.