First attempt at pipe welding

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I wanted to practice pipe welding so I built a small fixture to hold some cupons. I beveled the pipe on my lathe. I tacked them up and tried various rods. HF 6011: CrapLincoln 6013: Nice bead on top but runny on the sides.InWeld 6010 (Red): Brand new out of the box and could not keep lit, had to turn to max rated amperage and it burned through and sprayed spatter all over. Forney 7018: Nice bead but seemed a little less runny than the 6013'sTried uphill and downhill. Here are some pictures of the "better" one which is still terrible. I guess I need to go inside and watch some more youtube videos.I have about 30lbs of 4" pipe about 3" long to play with and another 36" long piece. I also have 2- 24" long sections of 8" pipe that I really want to save for tig practice. My biggest problem is keeping the rod angle the same around the pipe. Attached Images
Reply:Fit up is decent. First time I attempted to weld a 5" I messed the tacks up and had a ****-eyed pipe. At school we use 6010 for the root and hot pass, and 3/32 7018 for fill and cap. Are you running a root before you fill or are you just filling up the groove with whatever you've got from the jump? All in all, compared to some of my classmates and myself, that's not a bad first attempt. But I'm not the one you want pointers from.
Reply:Try to get some Lincoln 6010. To me 6010 isnt a lot of fun but it really helps with better rod.Hobart Stickmate LX235AC/160DCRanger 305GVictor 315 O/A rigHope to acquire in the next couple of years: Hypertherm PM45 and Dynasty 200DX
Reply:sounds like you ran AC with the 6010 rod? This would be why you had to turn up the amps so much. 6010 is only a DC rod according to the specs. 6013 will run everytime on the sides. not the rod for this situation. For your situation run lincoln fleetweld 35 6011 on AC current. will weld in any position. Everyone will rave about the lincoln 5p+ 6010 over the 6011 for pipe welding but if your pipe is magnetized at all you want to stick with AC rod.
Reply:Thanks for the comments. The machine I am using is a HF 160amp DC tig/stick machine. I was wondering if the 6010's are less tolerant to variations in arc length because I had them going for a little bit but then it went out.
Reply:Originally Posted by Chris T.Thanks for the comments. The machine I am using is a HF 160amp DC tig/stick machine. I was wondering if the 6010's are less tolerant to variations in arc length because I had them going for a little bit but then it went out.
Reply:Originally Posted by Chris T.Thanks for the comments. The machine I am using is a HF 160amp DC tig/stick machine. I was wondering if the 6010's are less tolerant to variations in arc length because I had them going for a little bit but then it went out.
Reply:I recall seeing that the HF stick machine says on it, that it won't run 6010.
Reply:BTW, if you are going to do pipe, then you should primarily concern yourself with 6010 downhill. So get a machine that will run it and get proficient, then move to 7018 for fill and cap passes. Easiest way o learn is to have someone who knows teach you.
Reply:I wouldn't make a pimple on a real pipe welders a$$, but here is what I did with my Everlast PowerArc 200. Some 6010 vertical uphill open root, 6010 cap, and 7018 cap. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI wouldn't make a pimple on a real pipe welders a$$, but here is what I did with my Everlast PowerArc 200. Some 6010 vertical uphill open root, 6010 cap, and 7018 cap.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeYou almost look like you know what your doing!
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI wouldn't make a pimple on a real pipe welders a$$, but here is what I did with my Everlast PowerArc 200. Some 6010 vertical uphill open root, 6010 cap, and 7018 cap.
Reply:Originally Posted by No1upQuick question on your powerArc, can you whipe and pause pretty good with the 6010? Hows the arc length?
Reply:Thanks for the input. I do not weld for a living and just wanted to practice on some pipe so no big deal if I have to use 6011's which seem to work good. I have done some welding at work but that was with 250A engine drives and Lincoln V350's, they will run 6010's no problem The little HF machine was purchased as my first welder to get some practice and it had the most output without doing some rewiring. The front of the unit just shows a ground clamp and a stinger by the connections. I don't know what polarity that is but could I reverse the ground and stinger without causing damage to the inverter? Down the road I'll probably get a Maxstar or TA 161 but most of the things I plan on making are flat bar and square tube. Just out of curiousity, what kind of tig amperage would I need to have for practicing on the 8" sch40 with a tig root and 7018 stick fill? One other question, what makes 6010 so hard to run? Is it just the composition of the flux or some other factor? CEP, that weld looks great. I worked for a mechanical company who welded pipe all day/every day and that looks pretty darn close to what they did
Reply:I've welded a bit of pipe myself.You need to put your root pas in with 6010/11 to achieve full penetration. If your welder wont burn 6010 rod, use 6011 for the root. A pipe weld is useless unless you achieve full penetration on the weld joint. CEP is showing us what a good looking root pass looks like on the inside of the pipe with 6010. What does yours look like on the inside?  Do you have full penetration all the way around?JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by Chris T.CEP, that weld looks great. I worked for a mechanical company who welded pipe all day/every day and that looks pretty darn close to what they did
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeI've welded a bit of pipe myself.You need to put your root pas in with 6010/11 to achieve full penetration. If your welder wont burn 6010 rod, use 6011 for the root. A pipe weld is useless unless you achieve full penetration on the weld joint. CEP is showing us what a good looking root pass looks like on the inside of the pipe with 6010. What does yours look like on the inside?  Do you have full penetration all the way around?
Reply:I've read where a lot of these small inverters don't like 6010. I'm helping a member on another site who bought a Longevity Stickweld 250. That machines runs real well with ESAB's 10P-Plus 6010. A good 6011 rod is Hobart's 335A.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by Chris T.I was looking at some pictures of 6013 pipe welds on this site and don't know how they look so good when mine wanted to run right off the side of the pipe.
Reply:Having the arc go out very easily, or having to hold a very tight arc, is a symptom of not high enough voltage on the arc. Frankly, I'd be surprised if a HF welder could run 6010 worth a darn, since there are much higher-end stick welders that still don't run 6010, and HF is usually shooting for the bottom of the barrel.I'm no pipe weldor, but I'm guessing there's a reason that everybody welds open root with 6010 or 6011, and it's not that they just like the smell of the rod. As I understand it, only 6010/6011 is capable of running an open root without porosity issues. If you're going to learn to weld pipe, learn to weld 6010/6011 on the root, and 7018 on the hot and cap passes. That's almost always how it's done in the field (again, as I understand it, which is from reading and studying, not from practical experience).In the field, if you were a professional pipe weldor, you'd probably have a machine that could run 6010, but for practice, 6011 runs as close as anything else you're going to find. I don't know whether any pros run 6011 on the root or not. Maybe if arc blow was a problem and they wanted to run AC?[/QUOTE]There is no porosity issues in welding root with 7018. In this part of the world, every pass on normal steel pipe is welded with 7018, root filler cap.  Only stick size changes.
Reply:Originally Posted by Chris T.The little HF machine was purchased as my first welder to get some practice and it had the most output without doing some rewiring. The front of the unit just shows a ground clamp and a stinger by the connections. I don't know what polarity that is but could I reverse the ground and stinger without causing damage to the inverter?
Reply:From the look of your pics, it appears you did not use a large enough root gap. A wider gap will help you achieve full penetration if you use 6011 rod. Also pay attention to the land thickness on your pipe coupons. You will need a bit of land on the coupons to help keep things under control.  3 things are key in achieving full penetration in a pipe weld. Root gap, land thickness and machine amperage.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I will be harsh and tell it how it is. Being a gas line welder and doing this stuff daily it is getting easy for me (i know its not) so hopefully the tips i give will help you out.Now first thing is every company is different! I have worked with companys that did everything 6in and under with a tig root/hot pass and 7018 covers. Now im doing 12in pipe 5/32 6010 downhill with 8010 hot pass and caps.Most places ive tested or worked with have a general standard of "penny gap and penny landing" and by penny they mean 1/16. You will hear a lot of guys saying you need to run a bigger opening to get the penetration you need. This is not true! Your setup and prep will tell you how you should weld the root in!CEP -- Dont get me wrong that looks OK for someone that doesnt do pipe for a living. A few adjustments and you would be pretty close to perfection. You have too much build up on your root, your angle is off in sections, and you ran it too slow. Your root should be flush with the pipe and as wide as a wedding ring!Chris T -- Spend more time on your prep and it will be easier for you to weld. Grind an inch back from the bevel so you dont have problems with rust and scale. Also looks like your not pushing the rod in your gap! Try what i said (penny gap/landing) and strike your arc, get that sucker hot, and start running it. Push that rod so hard you could bend it! If your prep is setup good it should pretty much run itself. The rod will melt away your walls so make sure your pushing a up or down (just a slight amount.) Im sure you already know this but you will hear the change in noise letting you know your in!If i can think of more ill add it.
Reply:All pipe tests I've done with the TSSA here in Canada there are no standard values for fit up for welding pipe. You use whatever thickness land and however wide root gap you wish. Fit up is all your own doing.  Our inspector wanted to see 1/16" reinforcement on the inside of the pipe.Last edited by snoeproe; 05-15-2013 at 08:25 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720Originally Posted by snoeproeOur inspector wanted to see 1/16" reinforcement on the inside of the pipe.
Reply:It mostly depends on who you work for and what is going to be in the pipe your welding. Gas line is by far the most strict, especially downhill. Oil is not too far behind that. If you plan on taking a test for pipe, ask questions! Lots of guys come in and act like they know it all... and some companies wont give out a wps with your coupons.No arc strikes outside the weld zone, no grind marks outside the bevel, no undercut, you know all of this im sure...
Reply:I dont do any code work, and Im sure a Battle Hardened Pipe Welder will read this someday and say " Blasphamey"!!!!I prefer Lincoln 6010 5P+. I run 3/32" gap 3/32" landing. Root downhill, Excalibur 7018 for fill and cap. I like to drag downhill root, whip uphill. I prefer dragging downhill so I can focus on keyhole, which usually nets me a fully fused root. Im too erratic whipping uphill and sometimes wind up with too much root in pipe, ( turd catchers ). Im starting to prefer stringers over weaves for my caps ( 5 G ) or a Texas Weave, good and hot. My caps usually looked like CEPs, little too big and slow. Stringers have made it look tighter and less chance for the boss to complain...Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:I'm going to try all of your suggestions this weekend and see how it turns out. Bird, if I'm running the rod hot and pushing it hard into the gap would'nt it burn through and extinguish the arc? If I have a penny gap and land should I stay with the 1/8" 6011 because the 3/32 would almost fit through the gap.
Reply:Either will work. Technically rod size and gap size have nothing to do with each other. You will find that the bigger rods are easy to run and you should net the same root every time once you do a few.Trust me when i say push the rod! You wont know what im talking about until you try it really...Feather your tacks and make sure they are pretty flat. Strike your arc (i like to do the match technique with 6010) on the center of your tack and let it get some heat going, even long arc it a touch if its easier for you. Then start running your root but remember this is the technique i use for downhill! Uphill is a different story...but downhill pays way more so learn up! Anyways so bring your rod past the tack and start pushing in a decent amount until you get the famous noise that lets you know your all the way in. At this point its all hands on learning. The flux around the rod will keep it from going out while you push. Also run it pretty quick! If a gap opens up behind your rod and you see its not filling just slow down a touch or do a quick whip to fill that sucker in. The root should be flush and look exactly like the pipe! Root size should be about 1/8 wide.I usually run 120amps from 12 to 3 and then 110 amps from 3 to 6.Grind your root so its flat and free of slag all the way around and then run your 7018 hot pass for up or your 8010 for down. Also a hot pass doesnt mean you have to run it any hotter really. If you have a pin sized hole you are trying to fill or something hard like that then run +5. Other than that keep it the same.If your running 8010 make sure you "paint" your hot pass on so do you trap anything.I think thats pretty much it!
Reply:Originally Posted by OscarLet's put it this way---to tig in DC on steel and what not, that tig is set up to run DCEN,  meaning tig torch = negative, ground clamp =positive.  If you remove the tig torch and install stinger, you're still running DCEN.  Switching the polarity shouldn't hurt it.  There are plenty of inverter/stick combination machines that are the same way.