Diversion 180 Opinions?

admin

Hey Guys,I've done some MIG, Arc, and Oxy-fuel type welding before.  I wouldn't say I was ever a master at any of the processes but I could produce strong albeit ugly welds..I recently moved into a new house with a larger 3 car garage and I'm having a 100 amp sub-panel installed off the 200 amp main.I'd like to try my hand at some tig welding and was considering a Diversion 180, is this adequate for hot-rod/general mechanical welding?  I'd mostly be working with .083 chrome molly tubing and maybe some suspension stuff.  Also general fab like aluminum intake manifolds usually around 3/16 thick.  Is the diversion the right machine or should I save up and get a dynasty or something beefier?Thanks,-Nick
Reply:Welcome Nick.I have set a few people with Diversion180s. It is the simplest tig welder ever designed. Maybe too simple. The trade off is yes you get started rapidly, but it has limitations in duty cycle and metal thicknesses. If you can't learn on this you will never learn it. And there are some that just will not get it no matter what.Yes, the Dynasty and others kick ***, but only if you know what you are doing. Kind of learning on a Formula 1 racecar instead of a Toyota Prius, which is so simple. If I were you, and I am not, I would advise myself to start with the Diversion, master it, then move up. I see kids spending thousands to go to trade school to learn tig and learn nothing. This way you are almost garranteed to master the process. Everything is already figured out for you. And you have this site to guide you along.Good luck on your decision. BTW, you would be welcome to come to my shop and I will help you for an hour or so figuring it out.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Welcome. Where you located at?I have the diversion 180. I love love love this machine. I actually fell more in love with it as soon as I changed out the torch too.It should do 3/16 no issue (maybe some helium would help?), except the only issue I see there is you would be upwards of maxing out the machine that torch can get kind of hot and I wouldn't be doing back to back to back passes because of the low duty cycle.I guess it all depends. Helium, pre heating, stuff like that can help too.And it depends on if it's cast aluminum. I'm not an expert by any means, but I've do 1/8th aluminum all the time and I had a small project with thick cast aluminum and it welded it up perfectly. At 125amps and a lot of pre heating.You really can't go wrong with that machine though.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I got one and love it.Never welded anything before and took me a couple afternoons to get comfortable with the process. Never had any duty cycle problems, but i just do hobby stuff, no production or anything like that.Would recommend a wp9 torch for the. .083 stuff. Lot easier to handle. Also switched out the thick torch lead for a thinner more flexible one, less pull on the torch while welding that way. I dont think you will have issues with the duty cycle on this stuff, but the 3/16th alu you might. It will weld it though, so if you got time you'll get it done.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleWelcome. Where you located at?I have the diversion 180. I love love love this machine. I actually fell more in love with it as soon as I changed out the torch too.It should do 3/16 no issue (maybe some helium would help?), except the only issue I see there is you would be upwards of maxing out the machine that torch can get kind of hot and I wouldn't be doing back to back to back passes because of the low duty cycle.I guess it all depends. Helium, pre heating, stuff like that can help too.And it depends on if it's cast aluminum. I'm not an expert by any means, but I've do 1/8th aluminum all the time and I had a small project with thick cast aluminum and it welded it up perfectly. At 125amps and a lot of pre heating.You really can't go wrong with that machine though.
Reply:An automotive aluminum intake manifold is going to take some pretty good power (and duty cycle) to TIG weld satisfactory.  Everything else you mentioned should be easy with a small inverter TIG.If you're going inverter, there are other options that provide far more bang per buck than Miller's expensive (and weak, in terms of duty cycle) offerings.You've also got the juice to run a big transformer TIG, if you wanted lots of capability for little cost.  Something like a used Miller 330 A/BP can be had for very little cost.  The downsides would be space required to make a home for it (possibly not a problem with a 3-car garage) and also they are not portable (you'd need a means to move the very heavy machine at least from whomever you buy it from to your garage,)Hope this helps.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonWow! You are working with argon only? Helium does help on the thick stuff, steel and alum.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleThat's all I've ever used. I've been stuck with 110v power for the longest time until last week and everything I've ever done is only up to .125 thick so I've never needed it. And it's just hobby stuff, I don't do it for a living so anything bigger than what I have isn't really needed.
Reply:Thanks for all your quick answers!  I think I'll go with the Diversion 180 for learning purposes.  It does seem very easy from a setup stand point, hopefully that will allow me to become good at torch control and not always second guessing my setup in the beginning.  The price in my area is around 1800 for a new one with everything needed minus a bottle.  So for 2 grand I think it's going to be tough to beat.  I have seen a few tempting deals on craigslist for bigger/better machines but most of them look like they were ridden hard and put away wet!It seems like it might be good to hang on to for the portability factor anyways.  Can a 7500 watt/10,000 peak generator run one of these?  Might be nice for race days ;-)Thanks everybody,-Nick
Reply:Honestly I'd spend the few extra hundred and get a Syncrowave 200 myself. Last time I looked they were in the $2300 range IIRC. You get more amps and a longer duty cycle, plus some of the advanced options the Diversions don't give you, plus it will stick weld. To me that's well worth the extra money.I'm not against the Diveresions, I just think they are way over priced for what you get. I see a lot of people going for the Diversion 180 because it will run on 115v power. The problem is that they really don't understand the unit. On 115v power your output is limited. To even get the rated output on 115v power, you need more input amps than you can get on a dedicated 20 amp 115v circuit. You need a 30 amp circuit to get the rated output on 115v power and that's not "standard". Couple that with the very low duty cycle at max on 230v, and I just feel the machine is a bit too limiting.If you haven't tried a CL aggregator like Searchtempest, you might want to give it a try to expand your CL search area. I see nice Syncrowave 180's and 200's in almost like new condition with very little hours fairly regularly near me. Usually these run between $900-1300 depending on the unit, condition and any accessories. You might also take a few minutes and go up to the top left to the User CP and add your location. Several guys here browse CL regularly and may spot a deal and pass it on. I passed on a link to a sweet Syncro 250 for less than what you are looking to spend on that Diversion 180 to a member here. The machine was barely used and came out of an art school IIRC..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Ok, I'm a diversion 180 owner, this machine has its ups and downs, on dc you can weld 1/4 inch stainless with no problem, on ac your kind of limited on aluminum. I hate pre heating, which is necessary many times, I had a recent project with 1/8 aluminum square tubing and the machine struggled to heat up the metal. The size of the part matters when your duty cycle is only 10%. But besides that it helped me create my welding business. Check out  some of my projects I made on dcweldinginc.com. All with diversion180 and Hobart 210mvp, if I went back in time I would look into the htp 221
Reply:Not a pro here, but I'd personally avoid that machine.The best parts of it is the resale value and 110 capability.The ones I don't like are:Cannot stick weld if the need arisesVery difficult or impossible to change the type of torch or water coolNo balance or frequency adjustment on ACVery low duty cycleOn your budget, space availability and power availability, you'd be best served with a large used transformer machine.  If you want to go inverter, consider the new TA186 or the HTP 221.  Both are near your price range and are portable in case you want them at the track with you.  IIRC, only the DV HTP will allow use with 110 v.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255Not a pro here, but I'd personally avoid that machine.The best parts of it is the resale value and 110 capability.The ones I don't like are:Cannot stick weld if the need arisesVery difficult or impossible to change the type of torch or water coolNo balance or frequency adjustment on ACVery low duty cycleOn your budget, space availability and power availability, you'd be best served with a large used transformer machine.  If you want to go inverter, consider the new TA186 or the HTP 221.  Both are near your price range and are portable in case you want them at the track with you.  IIRC, only the DV HTP will allow use with 110 v.
Reply:What happens when the electrode sticks?  You shut the machine?TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I have the Diversion 180 and love it.  Sure I'd like a Dynasty 350, but I don't need one yet.  I think the 180 is perfect for a hot rod machine.  I use mine with 220 volt.Lincoln Vantage 400Trailblazer® 302 Air Pak™Miller Dynasty® 350Millermatic® 252Millermatic 350P AluminumSyncrowave 351LN-25 Pro (Two)Multimatic 200 (Two)Diversion™ 180Spectrum® 625 X-TREME™Thermal Dynamics ‑ Cutmaster 52
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleWelcome. Where you located at?I have the diversion 180. I love love love this machine. I actually fell more in love with it as soon as I changed out the torch too.It should do 3/16 no issue (maybe some helium would help?), except the only issue I see there is you would be upwards of maxing out the machine that torch can get kind of hot and I wouldn't be doing back to back to back passes because of the low duty cycle.I guess it all depends. Helium, pre heating, stuff like that can help too.And it depends on if it's cast aluminum. I'm not an expert by any means, but I've do 1/8th aluminum all the time and I had a small project with thick cast aluminum and it welded it up perfectly. At 125amps and a lot of pre heating.You really can't go wrong with that machine though.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255What happens when the electrode sticks?  You shut the machine?
Reply:Whatever, the greatest attribute of a Diversion is as a learning tool, and as a stepping stone. I would rather see someone up and running immediately without the ability to mess up the settings than I would seeing them struggle and clueless because it had too many features they don't understand. One reason mig is so popular is it is mindless. Just follow the chart under the hood.Miller did good with the Diversion series. I would not hesitate to buy my grandkid a Diversion180 when I get one. Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I'm with DSW. Save and go for the 200 syncro or a 180SD. Got my 180 for $800.00 complete.The 180 and 200 syncro are more basic machines. Turn machine on, step on pedal, weld.The Dynasty has tooooooooooooo  many bells and whistles for me.
Reply:What is the current consumption of the Diversion 180 at 220v a/c? I did'nt see that spec on the Miller web site. The 220v line in my barn is rated at 50 amps. Thanks
Reply:You should be fine with a 30amp breaker. Btw I'm going to sell my diversion 180.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleYou should be fine with a 30amp breaker. Btw I'm going to sell my diversion 180.
Reply:I just got my Diversion 180 and have been reading here and hope it will introduce me to TIG welding as I already gas weld and of course, mig weld. Thanks for all the tips.Street Kings Motor Club est 1976http://www.streetkingsokla.com/HISTORY_1.htmlWaterloo Auto Parts IncEdmond OK