Safe Project

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This is my first project in my newly completed shop/garage work area.  It's not really an ideal workspace, but it's what I've got.  I'll add to it as I go.I'm starting off fabricating a safe frame.  I haven't fabricated or welded in a while, and I'd forgotten how much time is involved in something even as simple as this.  I welded professionally to put myself through college, but it's been 7 years since I graduated and got a job in my new field, so I'm more than a bit rusty.  I bought myself a nice Miller 251 about 4 years ago, but haven't been able to use the machine, because I didn't have anywhere to run it.  I didn't forget that 95% of fabrication time is prep, but just to get to the point of finishing the basic frame has taken me almost 24 hours.I'm using a chop saw right now and it works, but I've only ever used a horizontal band saw; what a difference a good tool makes.  What a pain to get the chop saw setup to make a straight cut.  It took me 4 hours to cut out 16 pieces!  New tool need: horizontal band saw.  Also removing mill scale with a crappy little random orbital sander sucks, but I like clean metal to weld on (that took 6 hours for those same 16 pieces). Attached Images
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Reply:Looks like you haven't forgotten much in 7 years. Good Job.If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
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Reply:Originally Posted by larpheadLooks like you haven't forgotten much in 7 years. Good Job.
Reply:Dang not too shabby for being out of it for so long!Millermatic 30aMillermatic 210Miller thunderbolt 225 ac/dc/ccMiller HF15-1-wg tigLincoln ranger 10(honda powered)Cebora 175 mig Too damn many tools but oddly not enough......
Reply:go to horrible fright and pick up some cheap grinders. even their garbage is better than an orbital sander. Other than that, looks good.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:So will this be a gun safe? Or are you hoarding a LOT of cash?  I'm interested to see how it turns out. Looks plenty sturdy so far.
Reply:Looks awesome! The time you spent in prep and fit up shows! As far as the welds and critique goes, I think you would be as good of judge as anyone. Thanks for sharing
Reply:If you are mainly cutting tubing and small stuff, look at a dry cut saw.  I picked up an MK Morse off Amazon for just over $500 and it has paid for itself several times over already.Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller 252 Miller 250xMiller Syncrowave 250Miller AEAD200 LegendMiller 375 Xtreme plasmaLincoln WeldPak 100Victor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by cowboy181dDang not too shabby for being out of it for so long!
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughLooks awesome! The time you spent in prep and fit up shows! As far as the welds and critique goes, I think you would be as good of judge as anyone. Thanks for sharing
Reply:There's lots of options for something like that. You might find a track torch on ebay or craigslist for cheap.If it was me I would just get a good plasma like a hypertherm and use some angle iron for a straight edge.You can also weld some 2 inch flatstock to the side of some 3/4 or 1 inch round stock and use that for a straight edge for a torch. The right size round stock makes it really easy to drag a torch on and cut well.
Reply:Get a wirebrush cup for your grinder to clean the metal, I realize your doing this as a hobby and not up to speed and all but that is like a 3 hour or less project to me so IMO you should get some little things to up productivity before you get tired of what can be fun work.  A chop saw isn't the worst thing in the world, been a lot of stuff built with them.   Not sure what the plan is with the safe is if you are going to try and fire proof it or not but 1/4 plate sides is serious (not that your 2x3 tube frame wasn't lol) but if your going to put in fireproofing such as drywall or some shade of concrete, you might make it a little thinner.  Even 10 gauge is pretty sturdy.  I think my liberty safe is 12 gauge.  Let's think of it this way, if a guy breaks in your house with the tools to cut open a safe made of 1/8 thick material steel, I'd feel pretty sure he could cut through 1/4 just about easy, neither one is going to be cut through by hand realistically.   See if you can find a metal or fab shop in your area to shear out the plate for the sides, they can probably sell you the plate too, a shear will do those pieces in minutes and be perfectly straight.   I'm curious to see your locking mechanism, to me that is the hardest part of building your own safe.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughThere's lots of options for something like that. You might find a track torch on ebay or craigslist for cheap.If it was me I would just get a good plasma like a hypertherm and use some angle iron for a straight edge.You can also weld some 2 inch flatstock to the side of some 3/4 or 1 inch round stock and use that for a straight edge for a torch. The right size round stock makes it really easy to drag a torch on and cut well.
Reply:So tell me, what tool are you going to cut into a 11 or 10 gauge safe with that you can't cut into a 1/4" safe with?  I'm really curious.   16 gauge I can see someone getting open with an axe maybe.
Reply:Dude it sounds like its going to be pretty awesome. Sounds like your planning on using some pretty heavy plate.Might look into having a local fab shop, with a cnc torch or plasma, cut it for yaLast edited by jamesyarbrough; 08-21-2013 at 03:49 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughDude it sounds like its going to be pretty awesome. Sounds like your planning on using some pretty heavy plate.Might look into having a local fab shop, with a cnc torch or plasma, cut it for ya
Reply:Originally Posted by cd19Pretty easy to find a shear capable of 3/8 material, atleast around here I could find 1/2 dozen guys to do it in a 20 minute drive easy.
Reply:Last time I needed to cut 1/4 with a cutting wheel, it did take a bit longer than 1/8 inch...go figure.  Also, with the thinner stuff, once you cut two perpendicular slits you can peel a whole side open like a sardine can.  Thicker stuff you may need to do three sides of a square and then bend it down.Either way is academic as most petty thieves just take the whole safe and work on it at their own leisure and anyone that would know how to defeat that in minutes or less, frankly isn't interested in your stuff.  Anchor it down really good, keep it somewhere hard to get to and don't show it to anyone.Never the less, I would look for thicker plate in salvage yards or at your metal dealer they may sell odd shaped pieces for scrap.  Also, when you go on vacation, don't forget to stash all your cutting tips and cut-off wheels in the safe!  Nothing sucks like leaving out tools for the bad guys.  Once when I was away for the summer while my house was under construction, some skels broke in with a tire iron that was left on a bench in the backyard, they only took a broken harbor freight framing nailer and some other garbage that was left behind but I hadn't planned on replacing the sliding glass door so soon which they broke after getting frustrated trying to pry it off its tracks.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughThat's just because your amazingly awesome I guess, but you would be hard pressed to cut a door out of the middle of a piece of plate with a shear
Reply:Originally Posted by cd19So tell me, what tool are you going to cut into a 11 or 10 gauge safe with that you can't cut into a 1/4" safe with?  I'm really curious.   16 gauge I can see someone getting open with an axe maybe.
Reply:Originally Posted by cd19you shear a door, then shear 4 pieces to trim it out.  Going to be a good savings over having it burned out, or should be.  just because I try to point out how things are done in the real world, building one off things with an end budget goal and timeline for a paying customer doesn't make me amazingly awesome as you put it.  If you have someone to burn it out, fine, if you don't, bang out off the pieces on a shear, weld the door frame together, grind, sand, done.
Reply:Originally Posted by SingularityThanks.  I'm calling around now, trying to locate a supplier who can cut or shear it for me.  So far, I've found a 6'x12' 1/4" plate is going for $550 or so.    When I was doing it before, steel was FAR cheaper than it isOriginally Posted by pedaldudeEither way is academic as most petty thieves just take the whole safe and work on it at their own leisure and anyone that would know how to defeat that in minutes or less, frankly isn't interested in your stuff.  Anchor it down really good, keep it somewhere hard to get to and don't show it to anyone.Never the less, I would look for thicker plate in salvage yards or at your metal dealer they may sell odd shaped pieces for scrap.  Also, when you go on vacation, don't forget to stash all your cutting tips and cut-off wheels in the safe!  Nothing sucks like leaving out tools for the bad guys.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughOh I guess I missed it when you said 1/4 plate. By the weight you described I was thinking 3/8 or even 1/2.It should be easy to get it sheared if that's the way u wanna go and easy to weld together too.If you have a welding school near by, you might luck out and get the plate cut for next to nothing. As far as the price....plate is extremely high dollar!
Reply:Why did you bother with a frame?  The 1/4" plate would have been plenty on it's own and would have saved you some cash.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmWhy did you bother with a frame?  The 1/4" plate would have been plenty on it's own and would have saved you some cash.
Reply:I bought a fairly rugged gun safe for just over 500 bucks and keep a fireproof chest in it with all my impotent papers. I never have cash enough to save or stash...so that will never be an issue. I have the safe bolted and lagged in a tight closet. Unfortunately, I have a well tooled shop just outside the house with probably enough equipment to get into a bank vault. PS Use a steel cutting circular saw for all your sheetsteel. I've done some perfect pocket cuts with my Milwaukee at thicknesses up to 3/4 inch. Just gotta take it slow and easy. It cuts 1/4 stock like its plywood and sharp and straight too.POVERTY...is the Mother of InventionMillermatic 211Millermatic 140Miller Thunderbolt XLArcOne 100STS inverter w/TIGThermal Dynamics 38XL Victor Oxy/AcetyleneJancy Slugger Holemaker IIJet 5x6 BandsawNever enough time & sleep.
Reply:If you decide to come down to SoCal for any reason, we have a supplier here and I'll cut it for you for free on my CNC plasma.  I'm guessing you could get the steel for .70/lb.
Reply:How about 11ga which is around 1/8" thick (about $80 a 4x8 sheet around here) for the top sides and back. But put 1/4" 2x2 angle stringer in the frame to stitch weld the 11ga to.I like the 1/4" for the door but I would probably just go with a single sheet and trim it with 1/4" flat bar.As for the cut, fit and prep. I have always said the welding part is easy, its all the BS before you get there that sucks. If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmWhy did you bother with a frame?  The 1/4" plate would have been plenty on it's own and would have saved you some cash.
Reply:Originally Posted by cd19you shear a door, then shear 4 pieces to trim it out.  Going to be a good savings over having it burned out, or should be.  just because I try to point out how things are done in the real world, building one off things with an end budget goal and timeline for a paying customer doesn't make me amazingly awesome as you put it.  If you have someone to burn it out, fine, if you don't, bang out off the pieces on a shear, weld the door frame together, grind, sand, done.
Reply:What did you get quoted for 1/4?  I just bought 3/8" plate the other day and paid $336 for a 4x8' sheet.
Reply:Originally Posted by SingularityI've never thought about that.  Does the metal cutting blade mount onto a normal circular saw?.
Reply:Originally Posted by kazlxWhat did you get quoted for 1/4?  I just bought 3/8" plate the other day and paid $336 for a 4x8' sheet.
Reply:I am pretty sure.Midwest Steel lists it for $137 a sheet. My supplier is usually cheaper, but we get a discount.If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:6x12 might be somewhat non-standard at your supplier, if you could nest it out of 4x8 or MAYBE 5x10 if they sell that, you might save on metal cost.
Reply:Good design, very good prep work, and solid welds.  Doesn't look like you have forgotten as much as you thought.  The price of a decent gun safe is far too expensive and most won't fit my "toys" in them.  I figure the best way for me to get a safe that will fit my .50 Bushmaster is to build instead of buy.  So I am very interested in this project.
Reply:An Ellis band saw is a great saw and the head turns for easy angle cuts. Spendy tho, mine cost $2500.00 15 years ago new. Lots available used. With a good blade all cuts are nice and straight. Attached Images
Reply:LOL, must look worse in the pics than it is. It's in very nice shape with good paint. It's just a bit dirty and the work surfaces that never had paint have some surface rust from getting wet when I moved. I sprayed them with lube but it didn't help much.
Reply:Update Time!I finally got the chance to do a little project work again.  Lots of busy weekends.  Let's get right to it.I found what I wanted to use for my hinges and door locking bolts.  Yes, they are way overkill, but I'm going for a certain aesthetic.  The tube is 1.750" OD, and 1.250" ID.  The solid bar is 1.245" OD which gives me 5 thousandths clearance.  It is still pretty tight, so I'll probably have to use a cylinder hone to give me a little more clearance.Have I mentioned before how much I hate this chop saw?   Never a consistent cut.
Reply:I decided to use some muriatic acid to clean and prep the pieces.  My local home improvement store only had 15% concentration so I picked up the 2 gallon package.  I filled the bucket with 4 gallons of water, then added half a gallon of the muriatic acid, giving me a solution of a little less than 2%.  I put all the cutout pieces in the bucket for 24 hours, and then filled another bucket with a baking soda solution to neutralize the acid.  A little scrub with a floor brush cleaned them up pretty well.
Reply:A few more pics.  Even after immediately dunking them in the baking soda solution after pulling them from acid, they still developed some surface rust within one or two minutes.  Nothing a quick pass with the wire brush won't cure.  Next step: buy the plate and do the front so I can attach the hinges and make the cut outs in the door and safe frame for the locking bolts.
Reply:Originally Posted by Singularity  I figured just the frame and plate of this thing will weigh around 1000 lbs.  What I want to build would cost $6K and up to buy.  I figured I could build it cheaper.  Plus, I get to have fun doing it. Should be fun.
Reply:I am in sacramento, have a few steel yards here that I have used, and I know there is at least one place that waterjets.Where exactly are you located?
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmWhy did you bother with a frame?  The 1/4" plate would have been plenty on it's own and would have saved you some cash.
Reply:Keeping a close eye on this one!  I've been needing a safe for a while now!
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauHow do you plan on moving this behemoth to it's final resting place once it's complete? Or do you plan on securing it in the area you are building it?