Extending truck rear frame rails / wheelbase length ??

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Hey guys.  I need a bigger truck than my F350, which is overloaded and out of room in the bed.  I am considering purchasing this truck (pic below) and extending the cab to axle length from 60" to 84" so I can have an 11 foot bed instead of the 9 footer that's on it.  I know these trucks came available from the factory with reg cab and 60", 84" and 120" cab to axle lengths, so the frame should be strong enough to take the additional length.  Finding one of these trucks with 4wd is a rare thing though, so I don't know that I will find one with the engine/trans/4wd/cab/wheelbase/mileage and asking price I am looking for.  The truck meets all the other requirements except for the cab to axle length.  I figure it shouldn't be an insurmountable task to change the frame length, but I've never done anything like that before. My question is, HOW to do the extension... bolt in a section??  ...weld in a section??  Side plate it??  Where would I acquire the frame section?  Anybody have experience doing this?  Thanks for any ideas!Here is the truck-MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Oh man, ya just let the genie outta the bottle.  STAND BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!I have a feelin' this is gonna be a Loooooooong thread."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Great!  I'm up for all the ideas and opinions everyone has!  MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33My question is, HOW to do the extension... bolt in a section??  ...weld in a section??  Side plate it??  Where would I acquire the frame section?  Anybody have experience doing this?
Reply:Overloaded and you want to make it longer? I don't see this ending well. I think you're going to have to step up a class or 2 to a F450 or F550. As mentioned before adding length between the axles is going to move weight fwd, watch the front axle. Use Huck bolts instead of bolts if you can find someone who can put them in. Don't end up with a driveshaft that's too long if you plan on driving over 40 mph. 50 inches sticks out in my mind as max length but check with a driveshaft shop it been too many years since I've done this. You might have to end up shortening one driveshafts and adding a section.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Go here: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...=Frame+stretchOr email Wello about stretching a frame.  I know his work is mainly larger trucks, but the stuff he does to them should be the same you would do to a F-350/F-450/F-550.  I would also suggest you step up to a larger GVW truck if you're considering building one.  Maybe look at an older 2.5 ton truck like a Chevy C-50/C-60, Ford F-500/F-600, lopping off the frame to the length you need & add a 12' bed.  Most won't be 4x4, but if that is necessary, you could modify it with a military front axle from Boyds in Utah.Just remember which ever way you decide to go, we need pics.  And full write up on the build process.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:DR33,As Samm has indicated you've re-opened a can of worms and you're fixin' to get all kinds of do's and don'ts on frame stretching.  Some apply across the board, some will be more than adequate for the type of frame your inquiring about and some apply to frames with hardened flanges (as the one in rode2rouen's post).  Pay close attention to frame alignment and adhearance to correct driveline basics with regard to maximum lengths (as tresi points out), proper operating angles and u-joint phasing/cancellation.That being said, if you go with an F-350 I have no idea if they're still available but we used to get 'wheelbase stretch' kits for them for roll-backs and wreckers from Jerr-Dan or Century Wreckers that included frame sections,  frame liners, driveline section, crossmember, exhaust/brake line/fuel line extensions, etc. to do the job.  Used to take about 4-5 hours to complete and was an all weld-in process.  Jerr-Dan is now owned by the Oshkosh Truck Corp. but I believe it was Century that we got the kits from so you could contact their factory or nearest installer/dealer to see if they have them available.DuaneMM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally posted by Tresi:Overloaded and you want to make it longer? I don't see this ending well. I think you're going to have to step up a class or 2 to a F450 or F550.
Reply:Longer driveshafts are harder to balance or impossible to balance depending on length.  As  Duaneb55 mentioned if the u-joint yokes get out of phase they will never run smooth no matter how long or short. Huck bolts actually is a trademark name for a fastener more like a rivet. Not only does it provide tension to pull to joint together like a bolt it actually expends in diameter as it is installed so that it fits tighter in a properly sized hole than a bolt.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Driveline manufacturers publish design limits for the permitted maximum length of components in a given series. You'll have to be careful not to exceed those lengths.Probably the stretch should be a cut that moves the carrier bearing cross member rearward; this way the less-angled front shaft could be lengthened, and the more critical rear shaft's angle, and length, would not be affected. Ideally this stretch could be made with a chunk of matching frame and crossmember, spliced at the crossmebers, leaving the original carrier bearing crossmember in place, but no longer supporting the bearing. Does that make any sense?? If somehow you could find a complete rear frame section, the stretch could be made with just one cut and weld. There are plenty of burned-up SuperDuties around, should be easy to find a matching frame chunk.But the truck itself... I hate to discourage, but as time and miles went on, the 350 now seems to be as tough or tougher than the 450. The 450 is not much more truck, and is limited by the same 16" rubber anyway. To me, the 450 turned out to be an axle-eating, caliper-wearing, flywheel-tearing, steering knuckle-pounding truck; complete with a high-dollar trouble prone transmission, parking brake, and rear axle. All this grief for not much more -if any- capacity than a 350. If you're pushing weight limits, maybe look at the next step up in trucks, as suggested.Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 02-15-2009 at 02:47 PM.
Reply:I have done 30 -40 of these. Mostly Ford. I am willing to help but, for me to explain it here, I'll just say a phone call would work better. PM me and I'll make some time to help. TJ
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardI have done 30 -40 of these. Mostly Ford. . . .
Reply:Denrep has a point about the tranny in 450s being bad. Look around you will find these trucks are cheap and there is a reason. If you need more room/weight capacity I would recommend moving up in class size. Just make sure it has hydraulic brakes and you will keep the DOT off your butt once they know they won't be able to write those tickets for brakes out of adjustment. And they do spread the word about who to hassle and who not to.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepBut the truck itself... I hate to discourage, but as time and miles went on, the 350 now seems to be as tough or tougher than the 450. The 450 is not much more truck, and is limited by the same 16" rubber anyway. Good Luck
Reply:Thanks for all your responses!OK, Huck bolts sound like the way to go.  I have heard of them but didn't know anything about them.  Thanks for the explanation.Yes, I agree, having the front and rear axles parallel to eachother once everything is done would be a good thing.  I'm very interested in this Century frame extension kit.   I know these trucks were used as carrier bed tow trucks quite a bit in their day and there are still alot of them serving tow duty now.  I have also seen quite a few with very long stake beds and dry box bodies too.  I'll have to take a closer look at the frames next time I see them.Fat Bastard, I will send you a PM.  Thank you.  On the wheelbase/driveline length, Ford made the trucks originally with 84" cab to axle length as one of the wheelbase length choices so I'm sure the driveline will be ok so long as I set it up the same way Ford did on the trucks that came with that wheelbase length from the factory.   They probly use a longer front half section and move the carrier bearing and hangar crossmember back.   I'll take a look at trucks with the longer wheelbase to be sure how they did it.  I can have the local driveline shop lengthen and balance the shaft for me so it works properly.My current truck, the F350, is rated 9200 lbs GVWR and is overloaded by 1000 lbs without the trailer and up to 2000 lbs with the trailer.   The truck in question is an F450 and is rated 15,000 lbs GVWR, so it should be plenty strong for my intended use.The chassis-cab trucks have straight frame rails from back of cab to end of frame, so somewhere between the back of the cab and the front leafspring hangar would be the best place to do the extension, I would think?I want to keep a short distance (no more than 48") from the rear axle center to end of frame, for trailer towing purposes.   If the rear of the frame is too long, I won't be able to position the gooseneck hitch ahead of the axle where it's supposed to be cause a trailer won't clear the rear of the frame.  Also, the longer the rear of the frame, the more leverage effect the tongue weight of a tag trailer has on the truck.   So I want to have an 11 foot bed and 4 feet behind the axle, which means 7 feet from back of cab to axle, which is one of the standard cab to axle lengths Ford, GM and Dodge all offer on their class 4 and 5 chassis trucks.  For the '97 F450's, the 3 cab to axle lengths offered by Ford were 60", 84" and 108", with the wheelbases being 137", 161" and 185", according to my '97 Ford commercial truck guide.The rear axle weight rating is 11,000 lbs and the front axle weight rating is 5000 lbs on the 2wd F450's for '97.  I don't know what the front axle rating is on this 4wd truck.  It should say on the info sticker on the driver door jamb so I will look for that, as well as the axle code so I can figure out what the gear ratio is.  The info I have in my '97 Ford commercial truck guide that I got from the dealer back in '97 states the trucks came with 4.63 and 5.13 ratio choices.   Either ratio will be plenty of gear for me.  My current truck has 4.56.The 16" wheels and tires don't bother me.  235/85-16E tires, which is what the trucks came with originally, have more than enough load rating when used on a dual rear wheel axle.   Their combined load rating should be a bit more than the max capacity of the axle.  I figured it out once before but don't remember the numbers, but do remember that the numbers worked out fine.  My current rear axle load weight is 6500 lbs without trailer and up to 7500 lbs with trailer, which is also the limit of my single rear tires (285/75-16E @ 3750 ea @ 80 psi).   My axle (10.25" SRW Sterling/Visteon) is only rated to 6250 by the axle manufacturer, Visteon.   My rear wheels (Stockton Wheel custom made) are rated 4000 ea @ 100 psi.  So the rear axle is the weak point on my F350.  That shouldn't be a problem with the F450's 11,000 lb rated rear axle.This particular truck has the 5-speed manual transmission, which should be the ZF S542.  It is a good trans with a granny low first gear and an overdrive 5th.  The only issue I have heard with it is the slave cylinder for the hydraulic clutch and from what I hear it isn't a major issue.  The tranny with the problems in those years was the E4OD automatic with overdrive.  I definitey don't want that one.  I specifically chose the truck I have now cause it has the C6 auto instead of the E4OD.Yes, the truck will most likely have the driveline mounted parking brake, which is mounted to the back of the transmission on the 2wd's.  I assume it would be mounted to the back of the transfer case on this truck.  What are the problems with these parking brakes?The rear axle in these trucks is the Dana 80.  It is the same rear axle Ford has been using in F350 duallies since '99 and F450's since '88.   Dodge also used it in their 3500 dually trucks untill '02 or '03 when they switched axle suppliers from Dana to AAM.   The Dana 80 is known to be a beast of an axle with no problems in the trucks they are put in, so far as I know.The front axle I assume will be the Dana 60, which has been the standard Ford 4wd front axle used in F350's, 450's and 550's for a few decades now.  I have one under the front of my F350.  I don't know of any problems with these axles, though I'm sure a heavily loaded F450 would be hard on any axle's ball joints.   I wish my F350 had kingpin knuckles instead of ball joints, but Ford quit using kingpins on the Dana 60's after '91.  My '92 F350 was the first year for the ball joints.   So far I haven't had any problems with them.   My old '77 Chevy K20 with Dana 44 front axle ate ball joints for breakfast, lunch, dinner and midnight snack.  That truck should have had a Dana 60 under it, the 44 was way too small for that truck.  Probly fine for 1/2-tons but not for 3/4-tons.I think I replied to all the issues raised so far.   Yell at me if I forgot anyone!Thanks again for all yall's remarks and advice.  MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcCWho ever made a 450/4500 truck with 16 inch wheels?All I've ever seen had 19.5's, 16" won't clear the brakes on a true Dane 80 or the current batch of rears used in these trucks. The earliest F-450's used a true D80 with 10 bolt hubs and (on everyone I ever saw) 19.5 wheels. Dodge had to use the hybrid D80 in their Cummins powered trucks just for that reason, to fit 16" wheels, the hybrid is a D80 with D70 size hubs.One tons run around 11,000 gvw today, 450/4500's run in the neighborhood of 14,500 and 550/5500's are aproaching 18,0000. (I know, someone will do a google search and put out "exact" numbers in a minute or two). That's a very significant increase.Like I said, who is making a 450/4500 truck with 16" tires???JTMcC.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33I want to keep a short distance (no more than 48") from the rear axle center to end of frame, for trailer towing purposes.   If the rear of the frame is too long, I won't be able to position the gooseneck hitch ahead of the axle where it's supposed to be cause a trailer won't clear the rear of the frame.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33The '88 to '97 F-Superduty (450) trucks had true Dana 80 rear axles with 10-bolt hubs and disc brakes and 16" x 6" wheels with 235/85-16E tires.   The wheels are unique to these trucks, with their 10 lug holes and larger wheel center dish shape to clear the larger brakes.  They are not the same as F350 dually wheels.For '88 to '97 Ford trucks-F250HD pickup GVWR was 8800 lbs and the rear axle weight rating was 6084 lbs.F350 SRW pickup GVWR was 9200 lbs and the rear axle weight rating was 6084 lbs.F350 DRW pickup GVWR was 10,000 lbs and the rear axle weight rating was 7500 lbs.F350 DRW chassis/cab GVWR was 11,000 lbs and the rear axle weight rating was 8250 lbs.F-Superduty (450) chassis/cab GVWR was 15,000 lbs and the rear axle weight rating was 11,000 lbs.F-Superduty stripped chassis (motorhome chassis) GVWR was up to 17,000 lbs and the rear axle weight rating was 11,000 lbs.All this info comes from the Ford commercial truck info guides I picked up at the dealers over the years.
Reply:The F-450 trucks being discussed here were all shipped new with 16" tires, and no other tire size option..The truck pictured in post # 1 is typical of a  1992 - 1998 Ford Super Duty.I have owned several, including 1988, the first edition 450, and never saw one with an original equipment tire size other than 16".Although GM 30 series were available with 19.5s way back, even before the HD-3500 which shipped standard with 10 stud 19.5 wheels.Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by denrep... If you're pushing weight limits, maybe look at the next step up in trucks...
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepThe F-450 trucks being discussed here were all shipped new with 16" tires, and no other tire size option..The truck pictured in post # 1 is typical of a  1992 - 1998 Ford Super Duty.I have owned several, including 1988, the first edition 450, and never saw one with an original equipment tire size other than 16".Although GM 30 series were available with 19.5s way back, even before the HD-3500 which shipped standard with 10 stud 19.5 wheels.Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcC...Pretty good but it's still a bit dumb in my take to not put 19.5's on a 15,000 or 17,0000+ truck.
Reply:That truck will do the job. The place I used to work had 30 or 40 Super Dutys (450). They were 94 to 96 year models. They all had 11 foot mechanics beds loaded with a 6000# Auto Crane, air compressor, Trailblazer welding machine, and all the tools you could shove in them. I cant count the times I hauled a CAT 3406 engine, dozer transmission etc in the bed of it. The only trouble we had out of them was the crappy park brake, and that dual mass flywheel that tore up alot until you could get an aftermarket one. Best I can remember, mine weighed around 13,400# without an engine or anything extra in the bed..............................."Look Good Doing It"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by Coyote...The only trouble we had out of them was the crappy park brake, and that dual mass flywheel that tore up alot until you could get an aftermarket one. . . .
Reply:DesertRider33, I'm gonna second Denrep on the idea of taking a look at a  medium duty truck as another, possibly better option.I don't need a truck with 20,000+ lb GVWR.   The slide-on utility body, compressor, welder and all related tools to my welding weigh about 3500 lbs.   Even if I pack another 500 lbs of welding stuff into the new truck, I'm not going to be even approaching the 15,000 lb GVWR of the F450.   I have a 20 foot deck flatbed trailer that I use for hauling metal and other cargo that is too big or heavy to go on the truck.   All the extra cargo I usually haul on the truck is just a few lengths of steel up on the lumber rack or shorter lengths in the bed.The 450 will weigh more than my truck cause of the diesel engine, heavier rear axle and extra tires/wheels and the flatbed and side boxes, but it also won't have the weight of the crew cab body so maybe the truck will weigh 2000 lbs more than mine does without the welding stuff.   My truck is 6500 lbs without the welding stuff.   So if the 450 weighs 8500 lbs and I add 4000 lbs of welding stuff to it, it's still only 12,500 lbs.   I don't see where I need an F650/750 or bigger truck to haul the weight I'm hauling.   A later model F350 dually could haul what I'm hauling, though it would be near it's max capacity.  I like to have some cushion, so the F450 makes sense to me. If my truck was a dually with a diesel and a 5 speed, I probly wouldn't be looking for another truck to haul the welding business.   I would just make do with what I have and replace the pickup bed with a flatbed with side boxes to get more storage space.   I have thought about converting my truck to a diesel dually, but realisticaly it doesn't make sense.  It would cost $15,000 and for that money I could have a later model F450/550 that would do the job better.I have to consider fuel mileage and cost of tires and maintenance.   The pickup truck sized diesels get pretty good mileage in pickup sized trucks.   Some people with the Ford, Dodge and GM trucks with the 7.3L, 5.9L and Duramax diesels say they get 15 to 20 mpg and sometimes more on the open freeway.  I'm getting 5 to 10 mpg and it's killing me.   I can envision one of those big F650's or bigger only getting similar mileage as what I have now and with more expensive diesel fuel to buy.   We also have to pay the registration here in CA based on the weight of the truck.  My fee is assessed based on the original curb weight of the truck, which was 6000 lbs, according to the factory.   I already pay over $250 per year to register my  F350 and it's an old truck too ('92).   The state is talking about doubling our vehicle registration fees to balance the state budget now too!   If I have to pay double the fee to register a truck with an unloaded factory curb weight of 10K to 15K lbs or more, I won't be able to afford to keep a license plate on the thing.The insurance is another thing.  I insure the F350 as a personal use vehicle and it doesn't cost too much.  The insurance company has seen the truck with all the tools and equipment on it and hasn't said anything about it or tried to raise the rate.  There's no way I'm going to be able to convince the insurance company that I'm using a 20K+ lb GVWR truck for personal use, so I'm sure my insurance cost will go up if I get a huge truck like that.The other thing is parking.   I live in one of these stupid pansy neighborhoods where nobody likes to see big commercial trucks and calls out the cops if they see one parked for too long.   I get enough grief over my F350 as it is.   If I brought home an F650, I'd have to find somewhere else to park it.  If I lived out on the farm somewhere in cowville, I wouldn't worry about it, but I'm not so lucky.  Believe me, I would love to live in a place where cows are my only neighbors, my life would be alot more fun.I can deal with whatever is the highest capacity pickup-looking vehicle, which is the F450/550 or Dodge 4500/5500, or the old GM 3500HD but anything bigger is just not practical for me.If the biggest things I have to worry about with the F450 is a parking brake and a flywheel, I think I can handle that.   My truck has been pretty good except for the emmissions/fuel sytem problem lately and I think that mystery will be solved soon.   That F450 is very similar to the truck I have now, just beefed up more, so I feel I can handle whatever happens with it.Last edited by DesertRider33; 02-15-2009 at 09:42 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33I don't need a truck with 20,000+ lb GVWR.  So if the 450 weighs 8500 lbs and I add 4000 lbs of welding stuff to it, it's still only 12,500 lbs....   We also have to pay the registration here in CA based on the weight of the truck....The insurance is another thing....  The other thing is parking.... I can deal with whatever is the highest capacity pickup-looking vehicle...
Reply:There's a ropin' , ridin' , cuttin' horse trainin'  dude that owns one of those 2 sections West of me.  Had to damn near sue the guy to pay for a bunch of hay I sold him.  I think he was payin' out too much on the truckThat damn thing's gonna cost as much as a small house"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Thanks for the pic Den Rep.   That's a nice truck, but way too much truck for my purposes.The 15,000 lb GVWR of the F450 is the rating for the weight of the truck itself.   The combined weight rating for truck and trailer together (GCWR) is 26,000 lbs.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammThere's a ropin' , ridin' , cuttin' horse trainin'  dude that owns one of those 2 sections West of me.  Had to damn near sue the guy to pay for a bunch of hay I sold him.  I think he was payin' out too much on the truckThat damn thing's gonna cost as much as a small house
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33...The 15,000 lb GVWR of the F450 is the rating for the weight of the truck itself. ...
Reply:Say Dessert a thought came to mind you may want to enquire with yoour local Dept of Transportation folks about making mods to the truck.  Many state have truck inspections that are very tight against the original specs of the truck. You may want to ask what mods you can make.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Originally Posted by specterSay Dessert a thought came to mind you may want to enquire with yoour local Dept of Transportation folks about making mods to the truck.  Many state have truck inspections that are very tight against the original specs of the truck. You may want to ask what mods you can make.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepCorrect, but also, the trailer's pin weight is added to the GVW and to each of the axle weights, as actually distributed.So at the estimated 12,500 GVW the truck itself is 2500 lbs away from max, without a trailer.Okay - The Super Duty it is. Let's cut this puppy!Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepThe 19.5s are twice the tire of a 16; they're a real truck tire, with a decent side-wall to height ratio.Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33.      Some people with the Ford, Dodge and GM trucks with the 7.3L, 5.9L and Duramax diesels say they get 15 to 20 mpg and sometimes more on the open freeway.  I'm getting 5 to 10 mpg and it's killing me. .
Reply:I agree about the later model trucks and bigger cabs.   I like the space I have in my crew cab.  I seldom haul people back there, but always find some junk to throw back there.  My theory on the regular cab is if I keep my 'junk' under control and make more space for it with more storage boxes on the bed, maybe I wont need the extra cab space.  Or, I might just be kidding myself, since I've become so used to having the crew cab for so many years now.  I did get along just fine for most of my life with regular cab trucks before I bought the F350 though.On the newer year trucks, they are nicer and more advanced in every way... and more expensive too, except maybe for some with alot of miles.  I don't want alot of miles though.If I can get 15 mpg with the 7.3L diesel loaded as heavy as I am, I'll be happy.   It would be a big improvement over what I'm getting now, both in mileage and power.I hope that as long as the truck is under the GVWR, the hydroboost, rear disc brakes and big front brakes (compared to what I have now) should stop the truck ok.   My current truck's vaccuum boost and rear drum brakes stop the truck fine when it's under the GVWR.  Overweight as it is, it doesn't stop so great.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammThere's a ropin' , ridin' , cuttin' horse trainin'  dude that owns one of those 2 sections West of me.  Had to damn near sue the guy to pay for a bunch of hay I sold him.  I think he was payin' out too much on the truckThat damn thing's gonna cost as much as a small house
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33 I seldom haul people back there, but always find some junk to throw back there. .
Reply:Just an FYI if you can crack 12 mpg i would be surprised.  my F-450's will barely brake 10 on good daysVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:OK,,,,,,,,,Not getting into any of the practical stuff here, just the legal stuff.I have more than a little experience with California laws.You realize,,,  of course, moving up to an F450, you need to get a CA number????ONE of the requirements,,,,   is at least a $750.000 liability policy,  that was the rule a couple years ago, probably higher now.  ,,,   most personal policys shut down after $600,000.   Go to a commercial policy, at least double the money.Second thing, you realize California,,,,,  being in the forefront of the environmental crap,,,   has actually instituted the new diesel laws?????    Anything over 14,000 gvwr has to comply?????   Depending on what year that truck is,,,,  it's gonna be next to impossible, to drive it on the road after the next few years.  My thinking,,,,  why spend time, and money, on something, that will be legislated obsolete, in three or four years, at best???And one more thing,,,,   you are wrong about the basis for registration,,,,    yeah, pickups are priced according to unladen weight,,,   but once you jump up in class,,,   to class four and above,,,,   the price is based on actual GVWR.  Not just blowing smoke here....  right now,,,,   I have three trucks, perfect mechanical condition,,,,,  that will be worthless in a couple years.  From class 4 all the way up to class 7.  Unless you are willing to swap a gas engine into that truck,,,   you shouldn't even be considering it.   Even with the low mileage exemption (under 5000 miles/year), NO exemption for particulates,,,,   you still gotta spend thousands of $$$ for a particulate filter.Good luck, and maybe you'll realize, why, now, so many trucks seem so cheap ??????
Reply:My 2001 Super duty stock engine with 7.3l 250 hp, automatic, 2wd, got consistently 19.7 -20.1 mpg.  But it was a 250 with 3.55 rear.  Don't let any one tell you a 3.55 won't pull.  I maxed it out past 20k lbs. many times, mountains and hills.  It had the same gvw as the the 4.10.  Additionally loaded to the gills, it would get 14-17, depending on hills or flat lands. Worst I ever got was 11.  I had to pull a load of "bushogs" standing straight up in the air catching lots of wind.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33The 450 will weigh more than my truck cause of the diesel engine, heavier rear axle and extra tires/wheels and the flatbed and side boxes, but it also won't have the weight of the crew cab body so maybe the truck will weigh 2000 lbs more than mine does without the welding stuff.   My truck is 6500 lbs without the welding stuff.   So if the 450 weighs 8500 lbs and I add 4000 lbs of welding stuff to it, it's still only 12,500 lbs.
Reply:Yeah, California is full of alot of carp.    My F350 pickup, our E350 cargo van, my old GM 3500 dually pickup, my old Dodge Ram D150 pickup and even my little Dodge Ram50 mini truck that I only use for running errands are all considered 'commercial' vehicles by the State and all have commercial license plates and the associated 'weight fees' added to the registration renewal every year.  California automaticaly classifies any pickup or cargo van, regardless of actual weight, gross weight rating, or how it is actually used, as a commercial vehicle.  They dont care if all you use it for is going to the grocery store, if it's a pickup, it's 'commercial'.  About the only benefit to it is we get to park in the yellow commercial loading zones that passenger cars are not supposed to park in.... big whoopie....I see alot of F350, 450 and 550 chassis-cabs running around without DOT numbers on them, even ones that are obvioiusly being used commercially.  I don't know if they are all breaking the law, but if they are, it doesn't appear the presence of numbers on the trucks is being enforced very much.On the diesel issue, the DPF is only required to be on the truck if it was on the truck when it was new, so that only applies to '07 or newer trucks.  Any emmissions that were on the truck when new, regardless of gas or diesel, must be on the truck whenever you take it for the emmissions test, which is every 2 years for gas vehicles, unless the truck is 1974 or older, then they don't care what you do with it.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Problem is with the DPF taken off, it screws up the computer so bad, it has to go to the stealership to be fixed.  I haven't seen any DPF delete kits on the market yet for the 08-09 pickups.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:DOT (Federal) numbers are only required if you cross state lines,,,,  in CA anyway.  Intrastate,,,,  anything over 10,000 lbs. GVWR, not a pickup or RV, requires a CA number.   Yes, many people get away without it, I'm just telling you the law.   IF,,,,  you happen to be driving a vehicle,,,,  THAT HAS A FED DOT number on it (note the emphasis),,,,,   In either California or Nevada,,,,,   two states I know of,,,,  maybe more, but no personal experience,,,,,    and you are stopped,,,,   Law requires the driver to also have a current medical certificate in his possession.   If it's just a CA number, on a class c truck, under 26,000 pounds gross,,,,   not required.   Go figure.  And DR????   you are way wrong on the new diesel emissions rules ,,,,,,     Do a little research,,,,,,edit:   I say CA, referring to California,,,   I also say, CA, referring to a CA number,,,,,  CA number is a number, for california, to regulate trucks, and collect money,,,,,   doesn't actually mean "California", it is just a C - A - Number.Last edited by mark8310; 02-16-2009 at 09:15 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepWhatcha' usin' FB?OE frame chunk, or press-bent filler??YesExtra crossmembers?sometimesReinforced inside or out?rarely Reinforced by "L" or "C" or nothing?sometimesGood Luck
Reply:Thanks for the info FB.   I haven't PM'd you yet cause I don't have the truck yet, still deciding if I'm buying it or not.  I don't want to waste your time if it ends up not happening.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2Problem is with the DPF taken off, it screws up the computer so bad, it has to go to the stealership to be fixed.  I haven't seen any DPF delete kits on the market yet for the 08-09 pickups.
Reply:On the diesel emmission issue, all I know is that on our 2005 E350 cargo van with 6.0L diesel, everything that was on it when it was new is on there and we are not being required to do anything different to it to keep running it legally in California.Remember, we are talking about a 1997 diesel F450 here, not a 2007, 2008 or 2009 factory dpf equipped truck.  I won't be able to afford a 2007 or newer truck untill about 2017 or later, so I'm not too worried about what happens with the newer trucks.  I'll worry about that 10 years from now. I am not planning any modifications to the emmissions on the '97, though there are many out there with all the stuff removed and straight-piped and still registered legally in California.  I don't percieve any problems with the emmissions.  I'm more concerned with the insurance.On the DOT numbers issue, if the cut-off is 14,000 lbs, I won't have anything to worry about.   The DMV has never asked me for the GVWR of any truck I've registered here.  They always ask for the actual scale weight, or as-delivered curb weight, in order to assess the weight fee.   The truck will weigh less than 14K all loaded up and if I need to make it weigh less than that, I can unload it before I hit the scale for the weight ticket to present to the DMV when I register the truck.  The truck only needs to be weighed once, at the time of initial registration.  The truck is currently registered in CA to my understanding and does not have DOT numbers on it.  My current truck weighs over 10K loaded, but the fee is assessed based on the 6K empty weight stated by the factory when it was new.Last edited by DesertRider33; 02-16-2009 at 09:36 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op