Trailer Decking screws

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hey guys, Just thought I'd let you know about a good product I found. I've heard people complain about the self tapping self drilling screws. So I thought I'd post some that I thought were great.http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053I was apprehensive due to the number of complaints I've seen about the ones from Lowes, so when I saw these at HD I thought for under $7 I can give them a try. I did a test last night on some scrap 1/4" angle I had from my trailer rebuild. took a bit for the drill head to make it through the 1/4" metal, but no longer than a good drill. and the fine threads made it so that my cordless 18v (on drill) could still sink the screw down into the scrap wood I was using for the test. needless to say, I was very impressed. and will be getting a few more boxes for when I put the deck back on the trailer.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:That is kind of odd. Last fall I went to home depot in Lubbock, TX with a deck screw like that they told me they did not carry them and sent me to Fastenal across the street to purchase from them.ThurmondMiller Bobcat 3 Phase,26 series gas cooled TIG torchMiller Suitcase X-Treme 12VS17 Series Tig Torch for Solar Panel Powered WeldingOxy/Acetylene Torch rigEVERLAST PowerUltra 205P
Reply:I know in my area there are 3 within 10 miles of eachother. and they don't all carry the same stuff. Typically it's the small stuff like hardware that they don't all carry. It's also possible that the person you were talking too didn't know what they were talking about, or didn't understand what you were asking for.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I've use Tek screws on my trailer. Where I run into trouble is the heads tend to pop off over time.
Reply:Are they countersunk? I can see if they are being hit by stuff that they might fail. If they are sunk to the deck surface, or below, I can't see how the heads could break off. Are they the same type of screws as the link above?There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I think that's what my trailer has on it or at least real close. I've had a few break the heads off, mostly on the very front of the trailer, my theory is that the boards and steel expand and contract differently putting stress on the screws. Eventually they become fatigued and the head pops off. Also seems to have happened on the boards where tires line up on, the two farthest to the outside.HH 187Miller Bluestar1EAHP AlphaTig 200X
Reply:i have had the heads of those pop off too.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:well, I guess I'll give them a try. If they don't work out, then I've got pilot holes for doing Caridge bolts.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerwell, I guess I'll give them a try. If they don't work out, then I've got pilot holes for doing Caridge bolts.
Reply:Try the 5/16"-18x2" trailer deck screws, will last longer than the floor in my experience.Do have drill pilot hole.
Reply:I've had a heck of a time twisting the self drillers off when putting decent plywood down on anything 1/8" steel or thicker. They'll get such a good bite in the plywood it doesn't want to wait for it to drill the steel. More or less forces them into and through the steel too quick and they twist off stuck in the steel. Predrilling plus over drilling the plywood proved that out, for me anyway.I use them on two layers of sheet metal tho. Predrill and counter sink the top layer ahead of time.They are the absolute chits if you have to strip a deck that's been put on with them. Go at them with a grinder. B e sure to get a big magnet to pick up all the tire gitters.Last edited by Sandy; 09-01-2011 at 09:45 PM."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:if you want stainless steel,---http://www.mcfeelys.com/search/trailer+deckingmiller thunderbolt 250vlincoln square wave tig 175 prolincoln idealarc mig sp250everlast tig 210EXTeverlast power plasma 50chicago electric (hf) 130 tig/90 arcchicago electric 90 amp flux wire3 sets oxy/acet
Reply:if the head is busted off, I should have easy access underneath wit the 2" angle. If I'm careful and put the screws in the right spot when I put them in. I should be able to get a drill clamped down on them from underneath and run the whole thing through the board and metal. If I've got the screws sunk just to the top of the board I should have a good 3/4" to grab onto, and with the drill head having flat sides, it should be good enough to turn the screw fairly easily. I'm trying to find the least expensive way to do it right now, as the budget is maxed already. and when I need 156 (two per board per cross member) and a pack of 40 is less than $7 its worth the savings right now. With the screws will drill through the 1/4" angle without pre-drilling (which was what really impressed me) I think I'm going to stick with these for now. I know carriage bolts with lock washers would be the best way to go. but for the volume I would be about 4 times the price of these. and thats without the lock washers and nuts.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerif the head is busted off, I should have easy access underneath wit the 2" angle. If I'm careful and put the screws in the right spot when I put them in. I should be able to get a drill clamped down on them from underneath and run the whole thing through the board and metal. If I've got the screws sunk just to the top of the board I should have a good 3/4" to grab onto, and with the drill head having flat sides, it should be good enough to turn the screw fairly easily. I'm trying to find the least expensive way to do it right now, as the budget is maxed already. and when I need 156 (two per board per cross member) and a pack of 40 is less than $7 its worth the savings right now. With the screws will drill through the 1/4" angle without pre-drilling (which was what really impressed me) I think I'm going to stick with these for now. I know carriage bolts with lock washers would be the best way to go. but for the volume I would be about 4 times the price of these. and thats without the lock washers and nuts.
Reply:I priced out 2 1/2" carriage bolts yesterday. and with 13 boards 6 cross members, and two bolts per board per cross member, that's 156 bolts. a pack of 50 1/4"-20 x 2 1/2" galvanized (treated wood decking needs galvanized, not zinc which is cheaper) is 14.87. I would need 3 of these plus 9 singles at approx $0.50 each. that's 44.61 for the three packs, and 4.50 for the 9 singles for a grand total of 49.11. Plus 20 packs of 1/4"-20 nylock nuts at $0.98 each need 8 packs so that's 5.88 more bringing the total to 54.99. if I add washers $2.70 for a pack of 25 would need 6 Plus 9 singles for 16.20 add a dollar for the singles and I'm at 17.20 Plus the 54.99 brings the grand total to 71.19 before tax.4 box of 40 count screws at 6.49 is 25.96 before tax. I don't have to buy anything else. The ones at my local HD are not zinc coated and are able to be used with treated lumber.I don't have to worry about how I'm going to drill 156 holes through lumber and metal without ruining my drill bits or having to do it twice 1 with an over sized drill for the wood then back through with a smaller size for the metal. Then set the carriage bolts, and crawl under the trailer to tighten the nuts. I can just sit/kneel on the deck boards and drive the screws. As time is money, and this trailer is eventually going to be sold (before the decking goes bad I'm sure). I don't want to put that kind of time and effort into it.I saw on here (I believe) someone said they had a sign in their old shop. that readIn this shop we can do the job Fast, we can do the job cheap, we can do the job right. But we can only do two of those at the same time. If you want it fast and cheap, it wont be done right, if you want it done right and fast, it wont be cheap, and if you want it done cheap and right it wont be done fast.well, I'm at the point where I want it done cheap and fast. It might not be done "right" but it will still be an improvement on what I bought it as. Nothing holding the decking down accept the 1.5" angle on the edges.Also it was said that after a few years the heads where breaking off. I can only assume this was because of the expansion contraction of the wood and metal throughout the seasons. begging the question, was your trailer left out in the weather, unprotected from rain, snow, sun? could this whole situation have been prevented by a tarp over the trailer, preventing excess water from getting to the wood. causing it to swell? I understand that you can't only use your equipment in dry weather. I live in western Washington, if we waited for the sun we'd be able to work 3 months out of the year. but precautions can be made to help the longevity of any item. Sandy said he/she had head twist off in plywood with self tapping screws. This was what I was worried about. The threads getting a hold of the wood and forcing the screw into the metal to quickly. But if you look at the screw, that is what those tabs just above the drill head are for. to ream out the wood to prevent the threads from engaging. in the test I did last night they worked as they were supposed to. essentially doing the over drilling in the wood for me.DSW said to have fun getting the decking off if the head break off. to which I can only respond. If I'm at the point where I need to take the deck off to remove/replace broken bolts. Than the decking will be getting replaced at the same time. In which case, cutting the decking boards between the cross members will make short work of getting the boards off. Just add a BFH and it's done. any broken shafts remaining in the cross members can either be twisted out with vise grips or ground down and drilled out. Holy long winded batman. Sorry. guess what I'm trying to say, is for the cost, the time, and the effort, these are good enough for the job at hand.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Hmmm...... I was pretty close. With these nuts, you could skip the washers.  You would have some to spare also.http://www.mcmaster.com/#orders/=dvs2epMy experience has been that the boards will split, or the bolts will break long before the rust does them in.  It's not expanding and contracting that does it.  It's trailer flex.  The time taken to drill holes doesn't even compare to the time spent dealing with broken screws.You do what you want.  I'm just sharing lessons I've learned from being there before.My name's not Jim....
Reply:My trailer was done with bolts, and I don't have any broken ones, but its only been 25 years ( and yes its outside all the time).I just noticed that the wood is going. That means it's time  to find a good price on plate.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Boost, your link didn't work.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerBoost, your link didn't work.
Reply:Broken screws are just as easy, or rather a pain, to get out as carriage bolts (especially carriage bolts with nylocks). With carriage bolts you are going to have to dig into the wood (years later, remember, the wood won't hold the carriage head and it will spin) to grab the bolt head with a pair of vise grips to undo the nut, or go at them with a torch. Zip wheels get eaten up when the bolt starts to spin, so that is a bad option. The self drilling screws tend to break off more frequently, and you have to vise grip them out too. I think the torx head screws shown earlier are likely the best option.
Reply:They make washers just for the carriage bolt heads. You don't have all those sinking in and spinning issues if you use the washers. Even makes installing them in deck lumber a one man operation. They call them torque washers or some official name like that. I call them carriage bolt washers .. ACE Hardware has them. They repay their costs in lack of frustration and enhanced functionality."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Installing the carriage bolts is easy.  Drop in hole, smack with hammer, put nut on finger tight and hit it with the butterfly wrench.  Removal is done with something hot, something sharp, or something spinning really fast. The best part is that the hole is then free and clear for the new bolt.I don't care what any of you guys say, self tapping screws don't just screw back out when you need them to.  They also don't drill out worth a ****.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by saltbranchTry the 5/16"-18x2" trailer deck screws, will last longer than the floor in my experience.Do have drill pilot hole.
Reply:Don't worry about screws stripping ever again. Outlaw Fasteners has developed a deck screw that won't strip. Check it out: http://bit.ly/outlawscrews
Reply:So Thor, how are these screws holding up for these last few years? Have any of the heads popped off yet? Any other problems encountered yet?as I have yet to replace the original decking, it's still "floating" which has come in handy on the additions I've put on over the last couple years. As it stands I plan on repainting it next spring/summer some time so they will remain floating until then at least. I hate the added noise going over bumps when it's not loaded, but it doesn't seem to cause any problems. This trailer has really seemed to be a constant work in progress. I'm constantly coming up with new ideas of what I want to add to it. among many other projects. It's been treating me very well over the last couple years though.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by saltbranchTry the 5/16"-18x2" trailer deck screws, will last longer than the floor in my experience.Do have drill pilot hole.Attachment 72115
Reply:I've used them for other applications but not on the trailer deck. I haven't been disappointed yet. In regards to the ones shown in the picture above, I wen to a local trailer retailer a couple months ago and they had several trailers with that they were using those deck bolts where the decking was coming off. could have been installer error, but I wasn't impressed.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I'm with the guy who's name is not Jim.  (Boostinjdm)  I too have had considerably less than desireable results with self-tapping screws in all too many places. And right also, the head popping is more from trailer flex over the road than from wood and metal expansion/contraction cycles.  My PON trailer still isn't finished, but the decking will be secured with hot-dip carriage bolts.  (PON = Piece of Neglect.   Too many other projects and five weeks of fever from a tick bite in the middle of the summer put me wa-a-a-ay behind.)  - MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Originally Posted by neselaineDon't worry about screws stripping ever again. Outlaw Fasteners has developed a deck screw that won't strip. Check it out: http://bit.ly/outlawscrews
Reply:I just recently re-decked both of my trailers ( 10' tandem and 16' tandem) using the same screws referred to by Thor and only had 2 heads break upon removal. All other screws were removed with my 18V cordless. I installed these same screws myself on the previous re-deck. Rusty screws only needed a tap with a light hammer and the drill took 'em out easily. I'm sold on them !
Reply:Tek,How long were they in the trailers?There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I've built thousands of feet of Marinas with the 5/16" floor torx screws pictures with plenty of success.  I have tried everything, including the ones you pictured with total failure.  Most self drillers are just to brittle and can't handle fatigue.  I won't use them on anything that flexes, it won't work. I replaced hundreds of the self drill/tap screws with the floor torx ones.  They rarely break. They are available in 5/16 and 1/4", used on many commercial truck floors for attaching 2X deck boards.
Reply:As far as tek screws breaking off, they do.  I have found high strength ones at McMaster Carr for projects.  Pop rivets have the same issue, again there are stronger ones available.Last edited by blackbart; 10-12-2013 at 11:41 AM.
Reply:If you do find you like the design you found, I had used another similar one that had a wafer head for attaching plywood. It also had the "wing cutters" to ream the plywood.  Again, eventually all have failed me except the 5/16 floor torx bolts though.
Reply:I also use these by the box full. I use the 1/4" size tho and have had great luck with them.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerTek,How long were they in the trailers?