Buying a Hammer Drill

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I have found myself in a position of having to buy a hammer drill.  After renting one twice, I figured I should just buy one.  I don't have a call for one too often, but twice in one week has me thinking.So I was considering this... 1) Getting a cheap used one from a pawn shop, 2) getting a reconditioned one, 3) Or getting this from HF: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=97743I would love to have a nice Hilti like what I have been renting, but only needing one once-in-a-while, it doesn't make sense to me to shell out that much bank for it just yet.  As I need it more and more, maybe.Can someone tell me the difference in a "Rotary Hammer" and a "Hammer Drill", or does one manufacturer call it one thing, and another the other?.  Also, how would I know if I would need a 1/2", 3/4", or a 1"?  I figure if I just get a 1", I'd be ready for anything.I do know that I would like to have the option of using "Hammer", "Drill", and "Hammer/Drill" options.Also, I am not too much of a fan of cordless, just because the "Black Cloud" that floats over my head would allow the battery to die at the worst time.  I like the portability of cordless, but also the reliability of corded.  What are your thoughts on this.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:I own a DeWalt Hammer Drill, it hammers, it drills, and it will hammer/drill. A rotary hammer may not have a hammer only setting for chisel work.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I have the dewalt   spline drive rotory hammer and it will drill concrete from 3/8" to 3" I think and I bought the point and chisel for. I love it it has made short work of alot of jobs, I don't use it much maybe 3-4 times a year. now I use it to vibrate concrete forms too and when ever my snap on air chisel comes  to a ball joint or somethin I can get out the dewalt takes maybe 4-5 hits and the joint waves the white flag and gives lol.. now it was $1100 on sale when I bought it 5 years ago prolly the most expensive tool I own.
Reply:I've used a number of different units.I have 2 of the the Dewalt 18V cordless hammer drill, the L shaped units. Used to have 2 of the 14V units till the batts finally all died. It's nice for small hole or an occasional medium sized one say 1/2" or less. Mostly I use it to drill and drive Tapcons to mount 2x's and electrical boxes and shelf brackets to concrete walls.I have a small Bosch hammer drill. It's a long D handle unit (as opposed to one that looks like a std drill)  that takes the small SDS type bits. Thats what I use if I need to do any quantity of small to med holes in concrete or block, say if I'm mounting a dozen or so adj shelf brackets. It also has a chipping option, but I seldom use it as such because it doesn't have much balls just chipping.I used to have a corded std Dewalt hammer drill. Cooked it in no time flat, as well as it's replacement. Good for small holes 1/4" or less at best. I wouldn't waste my money on another one.I have a large Bosch rotary hammer. Takes the spline type bits and hex shank chipping points. I use it to drill holes 1/2" - 1 1/2" and chipping concrete and block. Heavy but works well. We had several where I used to work and they all ran great.I have a new Hilti similar to the Bosch above. The only difference is that it take the SDS MAX bits rather than the spline type. It's getting hard to find the spline bits in many places, but I can get the SDS MAX bits almost anywhere that sell the big bits. Seems to be the way the industry is moving and away from the old spline bits.Last I have a Hilti 905 chipping gun. Strictly chipping, no drill function. Heavy as heII, but pretty decent for breaking up hard concrete but not at the level of a jackhammer. Anything heavier and I break out the 90# jackhammer.If I had to get just one unit, I'd get a Hilti with the SDS MAX chuck, it will drill anything from 1/4" thru 1 1/2" and chip well. You can get an adapter to use the smaller SDS bits in the other chuck, but the unit is so heavy acurate holes are almost imposible.My 2nd choice would be a small SDS type rotary hammer like my small Bosch or a similar Hilti. Strictly for med to small hole for mounting brackets on walls and ceilings.Hope this helps.
Reply:Yeah, helped alot.  I forgot to check out the Bosch line.  The Hilti I have been renting is really nice, but I have been drilling a bunch of 1/4" holes for redheads, and only a few larger holes for tapcons.  I really don't see paying that much for the Hilti for just 1/4" holes. What I am understanding from looking at different models, is that a "Rotary Hammer" is DRILL, or HAMMER/DRILL, and a "Hammer Drill" has DRILL, HAMMER, and DRILL/HAMMER.  Is this right?It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:I'd have to look at the individual units. I know the dewalts I had were all "hammer drills" and thats all they did, drill. You had the option of using it as a standard drill with no hammer or as a hammer drill. Also these units usually have a reverse and use a standard Jacobs drill chuck.The others I can't say exactly how they are listed. We usually refer to them as rotary hammers or chipping guns. They usually have a chipping setting with no drill or a drill/hammer setting. My small Bosch also has a plain drill setting IIRC but I never use it as such. Most unit will not just drill with no hammer function. The bigger units sometimes have a heavy and light settings on the hammerdrill or chipping function. None of these units reverse and use dedicated SDS, SDS MAX, or spline type chucks.I got my big Hilti 905 from Home Depo from their rental area. They had them on sale used at a decent price, and the guy showed me the rental printout on the one I got. Thing looked brand new and was only rented like 4-6 times. Never hurts to ask if they have any units they might like to sell. I've gotten some decent deals on semi used stuff friom small rental places. They get to move thru stock and keep "new" units in rental, and you get a better price.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI'd have to look at the individual units. I know the dewalts I had were all "hammer drills" and thats all they did, drill. You had the option of using it as a standard drill with no hammer or as a hammer drill. Also these units usually have a reverse and use a standard Jacobs drill chuck.The others I can't say exactly how they are listed. We usually refer to them as rotary hammers or chipping guns. They usually have a chipping setting with no drill or a drill/hammer setting. My small Bosch also has a plain drill setting IIRC but I never use it as such. Most unit will not just drill with no hammer function. The bigger units sometimes have a heavy and light settings on the hammerdrill or chipping function. None of these units reverse and use dedicated SDS, SDS MAX, or spline type chucks.I got my big Hilti 905 from Home Depo from their rental area. They had them on sale used at a decent price, and the guy showed me the rental printout on the one I got. Thing looked brand new and was only rented like 4-6 times. Never hurts to ask if they have any units they might like to sell. I've gotten some decent deals on semi used stuff friom small rental places. They get to move thru stock and keep "new" units in rental, and you get a better price.
Reply:Personally you couldn't pay me to use a HF unit. I know I'd kill it. The Bosch and Hilti units I've used had literally tons of hours of steady use. We only ever had one Hilti fail, and it was a chuck issue that was easily repaired after about 6 years of steady use.One thing with Depo/ Lowes each store is different. I deal with at least 12 different Home Depos on average minimum. I can tell you what stores mark stuff down super cheap to move stuff fast, and what stores will hold on to stuff at may be 10% less than normal on discontinued items. Also I can tell you what stores do tons of rentals, and which ones seldom rent anthing at all. I forget what they run new, but $220 doesn't sound that bad at all if it's in moderate shape. I picked up my Bosch, slightly used, from a former empolyer for $200 when he closed up shop, a real steal. Then I picked up a very used unit with a ton of different sized bits from my old boss when they changed over to SDS MAX bits on all the guns for about the same money. Mostly I just wanted the bits and chipping points.Take a good look at what bits the HF unit uses. I wished I had gotten the SDS MAX unit from the start, rather than the spline units. It's just because I have to really go and hunt for bits and rental bits are not an option usually. I do like the spline/hex shank chipping points as they don't seem to break as easily when you pry with them however. If I didn't have all the large spline bits that I picked up used, I'd sell the Spline gun and just stick with the Hilti, but it would cost way more to replace all those bits then its worth.
Reply:I'd have to echo pretty much what DSW said.  We have the big Bosch at work which works well for anything up to 2 to 3 inch.  I have a half inch Dewalt dual purpose with the standard Jacobs chuck I keep in my work truck, and it works well for holes in concrete up to half inch if it isn't too old.  I mostly use it to set anchors for boxes and such.  You have to kind of ask yourself what and how big, drilling or chipping, if any you need to do.  I've used the Hilti series and they are good quality machines even when guys trash them.  If I had to pick a medium size drill just to set anchors and such up to 1 inch or so I'd probably look at the Bosch Bulldog or something like that, it is light and easy to use, not to expensive, but I don't think it has a chipping function.  Hope that helps.Millermatic 252"Don't worry, he's got a welder, he can fix anything"
Reply:Going shopping today, so we'll see...  Thanks for the input guys.  I did find a "buying guide" online and found out about the "rotary hammer" "hammer drill" thing.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:Keep in mind that the SDS+ (which is pretty much the same as SDS) will drill very well, but forget about chipping with it (it will kill the drill chuck pretty quickly).If you need to do chipping and demolition, you'll need SDS-Max.Spline is fine, but just an older (and harder to find) concept.  Reverse isn't worth much in something dedicated to drilling concrete, and the drill chucks in these things really suck.I would forget about HF.  The "real" rotary hammers have a safety clutch to keep the unit from spinning your arm off if they get jammed (which is very easy to do when core drilling).Actually, my Metabo grinder has a similar safety clutch which has come in real handy several times.
Reply:I'll stick up for the much maligned HF unit. I bought one to drill some weep holes in the bottom of a retaining wall that the previous owner built without any drainage. I figured if it would last long enough to pop 25 - 30 1" holes at the base of the wall I would be happy. I also used it to drill holes in some really hard granite "landscape features" so I could split them and haul them away. It not only did my jobs but I have loaned it to a number of friends who have used it for everything from concrete demo to concrete hole drilling. I got the HF long bits and they have held up well also. It paid for itself log ago so no tears will be shed when it craps out but it just keeps working. I think I even got it on sale and used a 20% coupon as well.Cut an MGB and widened 11" C4 Corvette suspension and LT1 Chevrolet power & 6 spd. Pictures here:Part 1http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,7581Part 2http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,22422
Reply:ebaycraigslistsearchtempest.I have seen hiltis really cheap because the person did not know what they were sellinginsert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:Call Hughes Supply in  Tampa I just drove by and the sign said Hitachi hammer drill blow out $49 813-949-0441If you cannot convince them, confuse them.         Harry S Truman
Reply:I have a Bosch bulldog for small holes, lightweight. Also have a big bosch for large holes and demo work never had a problem with either. Got the big one used, very used and never a problem Only thing is it gets heavy after a while when working off a ladder and if you hit steel it can break your arm be prepared to let go. If your worried about theft get the hf. Never used one. Use Hilti bosch and dewalt at work for drilling 1" holes 12" into concrete to mount 36x36" 1" steel plates to walls for bracing.
Reply:i have a miwaukee and use the boschblue granite drills when i installed this railing i did not use the the hammer to go thourghthe tile or the stucco and then use the hammerto go thought the block  you can use it as a drill and has 2 speeds hammer i got it from tool up.comand saved about $15.00 over northern tooland tool barn.com not worth it tool up -uck Attached Images
Reply:i have a milwaukee just like that one and love it. nice freakin drill
Reply:it is a great drill and i like the cords that come off mill. must have a pat.on that
Reply:I didn't read all of the replies but I have a bosch bulldog which is SDS+ I keep in my service truck.  I have ABUSED The hell out of that thing.   I used it to get 45 3/4" spring inserts out of concrete a while back.   Basically I took a half inch bit and rammed it into the spring insert and then used the bosch as a slide hammer.   IT was the ONLY way to get them out without completely destroying the concrete.    IT would stall the drill and I would have to reverse it.   it did that for 3 hours strait in 100 deg heat.  didn't miss a beatBest part is it came with 2 free 5"grinders at the home cheepo for around 150 bucks if I recall right.I also have an SDS MAX hilti for big azz holes.  but dollar for dollar that bosch hammer is a beast.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:....Hilti, or Bosch roto-hammer SDS....fwd/rev/variable speed...those guys know the concrete drilling businessDougspair
Reply:Thanks so much for everyone's input.  After your input, some on-line reading, and talking to some local contractors,  I went with the Bosch Bulldog Xtreme.  It has everything on my check off list.This is it: http://www.toolup.com/bosch/11255vsr.htmlI didn't buy it there, I got it at Lowes.  It was $225, but I had a $50 coupon for orders over $200, so I got it for $175 + tax.  If I need anything bigger, which I doubt will happen, I'll rent a bigger one.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:Yep, that's basicly the small Bosch I have, but an older model. I think you will like it.
Reply:stay away from toolup.com there customer service sucks spend10 or 15 $ more and go to tool barnor northern tool
Reply:Originally Posted by ed macstay away from toolup.com there customer service sucks spend10 or 15 $ more and go to tool barnor northern tool
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWeldingCan someone tell me the difference in a "Rotary Hammer" and a "Hammer Drill", or does one manufacturer call it one thing, and another the other?.  Also, how would I know if I would need a 1/2", 3/4", or a 1"?  I figure if I just get a 1", I'd be ready for anything.I do know that I would like to have the option of using "Hammer", "Drill", and "Hammer/Drill" options.