NOOB question > aluminum tubing > pipe bending

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Ok, forgive the newbie questions especially if they have been asked before. I have ZERO experience with any of this.I have been toying around with the notion of building my own competition handcycles (see pic)Can i use a 110v mig or flux core welder to weld Al tubing?  We are talking .5"-2" OD and relatively thing walled. Most welds would be to similar tubing to each other. Also, what would be suggested for bending same previously mentioned Al tubing?any info would be great
Reply:no you need a tig welder to weld thin wall 1/16th inch tube.cheapest one is AHP alpha tig for around $650, by the time you buy tungstens, an argon tank, glove, etc, $1000 out the doorto bend it with out kinking the easiest way is to use "woods metal" which is a lead alloy the melts when you boilt it with water.   melt it into the tube , bend tube, then heat in boiling water to get the lead out. probably be easiser to farm it out.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderno you need a tig welder to weld thin wall 1/16th inch tube.cheapest one is AHP alpha tig for around $650, by the time you buy tungstens, an argon tank, glove, etc, $1000 out the door
Reply:I would think tig would be the way to go. Econdron can you post pics of the thin AL spool gun welding?im interested in the results!
Reply:Originally Posted by EcondronIn fact it took me years of MIG aluminum welding before I could comfortably weld thinner material. Even still I'll occasionally get a big melt through. But you're going to need a spool gun. Flux core welder cannot weld aluminum. Need 100% argon shielding gas.
Reply:For something like that you would definitely want it TIG welded. Does it have to be aluminum? Even cheap aluminum bicycle's are TIG welded. You would be best to farm out the bending but even the welding isn't something you'd be able to do without month's of practice, maybe years. Welding practice pieces on a bench is one thing. Welding thin walled round aluminum tube when it's all tacked to together in a larger piece is about 100 times more difficult. You would probably need a jig to tack everything up so it's square and straight. I saw a custom wheelchair a guy and friend made for himself and it was awesome. I bet if he would have had it custom made would have cost close to $10,000. He was planning on building another one even better.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveFor something like that you would definitely want it TIG welded. Does it have to be aluminum? Even cheap aluminum bicycle's are TIG welded. You would be best to farm out the bending but even the welding isn't something you'd be able to do without month's of practice, maybe years. Welding practice pieces on a bench is one thing. Welding thin walled round aluminum tube when it's all tacked to together in a larger piece is about 100 times more difficult. You would probably need a jig to tack everything up so it's square and straight. I saw a custom wheelchair a guy and friend made for himself and it was awesome. I bet if he would have had it custom made would have cost close to $10,000. He was planning on building another one even better.
Reply:Jeff- I think they were saying farm out the bending- if needed- not the entire bike build.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Chromoly is very strong. You could use 1/16 wall or less
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Jeff- I think they were saying farm out the bending- if needed- not the entire bike build.
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313Chromoly is very strong. You could use 1/16 wall or less
Reply:You could build with Chromoly to hone yer fabricating skills- there's a reason those bikes cost 9k +   and you could get away with a 120v Mig machine. You'll need solid wire and shielding gas- flux core not so bueno for thin tubing.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by usmcjeff7489Any specific type? 41xx? or others?  i am very new to all this and still trying to figure out what the numbers mean and all that so bear with me
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli14130Weld as is.http://www.twmetals.com/4130-tubing.htmlHouston, TX6410 Langfield Road, Bldg C Houston, TX 77092 Tel. 713-856-5889 Fax 713-856-5847
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1You could build with Chromoly to hone yer fabricating skills- there's a reason those bikes cost 9k +   and you could get away with a 120v Mig machine. You'll need solid wire and shielding gas- flux core not so bueno for thin tubing.
Reply:yes the reason they cost a lot is they are not mass produced, if everyone wanted a hand bike you could get one for cheap.as far as years of experience, hardly, you can pick up tig in a month if you have steady hands. unless you are going to make two or three or more of these those it's cheaper to just buy it, tools and jigs are expensive.
Reply:I think you can do it usmc. That bike doesn't look that complex. I think it would be much easier to do chromoly or mild steel. You can make as many as you want if you buy a good tig machine!!
Reply:You'll need one of thesehttp://www.harborfreight.com/pipe-tu...her-42324.htmlCheap and it will work on 4130- I have done it. You'll need Hole saws though. I used LennoxEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:So you've had some luck with that hf notcher..that's good to hear cause i tried using a small drill press and a pretty solid v block, clamps, etc..no go! Dam quill was a bit loose and so it would step out and jam. :/ I tried fast slow every which way and finally threw in the towel. (lenox bi metal) I saw some thin sheet metal hole saws i should have tried..I think they were Milwaukee's. Kinda like an aggressive hacksaw blade, maybe 14 tpi. Oh well
Reply:Originally Posted by KennethDSo you've had some luck with that hf notcher..that's good to hear cause i tried using a small drill press and a pretty solid v block, clamps, etc..no go! Dam quill was a bit loose and so it would step out and jam. :/ I tried fast slow every which way and finally threw in the towel. (lenox bi metal) I saw some thin sheet metal hole saws i should have tried..I think they were Milwaukee's. Kinda like an aggressive hacksaw blade, maybe 14 tpi. Oh well
Reply:You said that yours was $9k.  How much of that is components, and how much is left for the custom frame?  If you break it down far enough with known costs.  The rest is the labor.  From there you can estimate savings by building your own or multiples and that will leave you with a ballpark equipment budget.  Take how many hours you think it will take and multiply by 4-8 times to get what it might actually take.  Then double that for your first one.My name's not Jim....