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New to forum and relative noob at welding. About a year and a half ago I purchased my first welder; a Hobart Ironman 230. I will need to be able to weld 1/4" mild steel to 1/2" mild steel, from time to time, in tee joints. Since purchasing the welder I have been practicing MIG welding as well as doing research on the subject. Also, I have read many an instructional document and forum threads about the need for spray transfer for 1/2" or thicker mild steel welds.While the Ironman 230 is rated up to 1/2", I do not believe it is capable of spray transfer, at least not with .035 wire and up. That said, if the Ironman 230 is rated for 1/2" but can only use the short circuit process for this weld then should I infer from the rating that a multi pass weld will be needed to safely weld 1/4" mild steel to 1/2" mild steel? The reason I ask is because I may have the ability to purchase a Millermatic 252, which I believe is capable of spray transfer, at least at the thicknesses I mentioned, at a competitive price. I would then sell the Ironman. My next question is would you feel the need to purchase the Millermatic in order to properly weld steel of these thicknesses or would the Ironman suffice? Maybe the Ironman would be just as well suited if I used flux core?
Reply:I don't think you will have a problem with the I/M 230. I believe you can spray .035" wire with 98% Argon and 2% O2. Even if you don't get into true spray transfer you will have a good hot arc and adequate penetration. Dual-shield (gas-shielded flux core wire) is also a good option.OTOH, never miss an excuse to get another tool! The MM252 is a dang nice machine.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Thanks. Is it fair to assume that with the Ironman multiple passes will be required?And yep I am down with getting a new machine anytime.
Reply:Due to the additional top power and duty cycle the MM 252 is a better 1/2" unit then the Ironman 230. However, the Ironman 230 does offer sufficient top end power to produce very sound welds on 1/2" steel. For home use, spray transfer isn't required. Use the unit in the upper taps with C-25, and you'll end up with a high energy arc that is beyond shallow penetrating short circuit transfer. Don't try this out of position though, like on a vertical up. The Ironman 230 offers enough top end power to spray an .030 or .035 wire with 98/2 oxy. The Ironman 230 offers enough spray power to run single pass fillets on 1/4" steel. Thicker material can be done in multiple passes. If you want a full size weld on 1/2" you should use multiple passes with the Ironman 230 or MM252. Spray transfer is not all position. For home use all position welding on thicker steel, a Hobart .035 Excel-Arc™ 71 gas shielded fluxcore might be the better way to go over spray transfer. One reason being you can use C-25 as your shielding gas for this wire.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Originally Posted by DanDue to the additional top power and duty cycle the MM 252 is a better 1/2" unit then the Ironman 230. However, the Ironman 230 does offer sufficient top end power to produce very sound welds on 1/2" steel. For home use, spray transfer isn't required. Use the unit in the upper taps with C-25, and you'll end up with a high energy arc that is beyond shallow penetrating short circuit transfer. Don't try this out of position though, like on a vertical up. The Ironman 230 offers enough top end power to spray an .030 or .035 wire with 98/2 oxy. The Ironman 230 offers enough spray power to run single pass fillets on 1/4" steel. Thicker material can be done in multiple passes. If you want a full size weld on 1/2" you should use multiple passes with the Ironman 230 or MM252. Spray transfer is not all position. For home use all position welding on thicker steel, a Hobart .035 Excel-Arc 71 gas shielded fluxcore might be the better way to go over spray transfer. One reason being you can use C-25 as your shielding gas for this wire.
Reply:I'm curious, what type of brackets are you welding to what 1/2" tubing? What are the stresses involved?Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI'm curious, what type of brackets are you welding to what 1/2" tubing? What are the stresses involved?
Reply:You can do spray with a 230. Its just a question of voltage and wire speed. There's a couple utube vids on wire speed calculations and voltage for tapped machines. Check out chucke2009. Then get a miller calculator. Buying a 252 is never a bad idea though. Also you might look into 045 lincoln outersheild. Use with c25. Its a much better weld on thick metals
Reply:Originally Posted by cold rolledRight now just practicing so no stress other than Hammer test for strength. In the far off future I hope to be able to weld suspension bracketry to axle tube.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughYou can do spray with a 230. Its just a question of voltage and wire speed. There's a couple utube vids on wire speed calculations and voltage for tapped machines. Check out chucke2009. Then get a miller calculator. Buying a 252 is never a bad idea though. Also you might look into 045 lincoln outersheild. Use with c25. Its a much better weld on thick metals
Reply:Originally Posted by cold rolledOk so the consensus seems to be that while it would be nice to be a welder hoarder, it is not necessary in this case. I am almost sad to hear that...
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveWhoa!! Who said hoarding welders was bad?!? That's crazy talk there...I firmly support bad habits like too many tools and welders
Reply:Spray transfer numbers from miller chart with 035 wire on steel using 75/251/4 inch 24-25 volts, wire speed 400-420 ipm, 200-210 amps5/16 inch 25-26 volts, wire speed 420-520 ipm, 220-250 amps3/8 inch 26-27 volts, wire speed 375 ipm (045), 300 amps.So it seems that no matter which machine you use, niether the 230 or 252 will weld over 5/16 in a single passKeep in mind that miller wire speed numbers are usually a bit on the high side. Now all you have to do is record the voltages on each tap (while welding) and wire feed speeds in inches per minute and you will be set
Reply:Originally Posted by cold rolledThanks for your reply. So far only my wife is in the non welding machine hoarding camp.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughSpray transfer numbers from miller chart with 035 wire on steel using 75/251/4 inch 24-25 volts, wire speed 400-420 ipm, 200-210 amps5/16 inch 25-26 volts, wire speed 420-520 ipm, 220-250 amps3/8 inch 26-27 volts, wire speed 375 ipm (045), 300 amps.So it seems that no matter which machine you use, niether the 230 or 252 will weld over 5/16 in a single passKeep in mind that miller wire speed numbers are usually a bit on the high side. Now all you have to do is record the voltages on each tap (while welding) and wire feed speeds in inches per minute and you will be set
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveAlways need a backup for the main welder - and a small one that's portable...and an engine drive... ...or a few of each when you buy low to sell high.Truthfully, I've bought several welders I didn't really need, used them until the time was right, sold for more than I paid.It saves time on my actual machines and I make money - win/win Lots of guys do it - I do the same with vehicles.
Reply:Really what you NEED is a millermatic 350p! Get em cheap off ebay.....and its twice the machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughReally what you NEED is a millermatic 350p! Get em cheap off ebay.....and its twice the machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughCheck out chucke2009.
Reply:Originally Posted by cold rolledAll valid points, but reasoning won't work with my wife...but I guess bribery would
Reply:Originally Posted by cold rolledThanks for your reply. So far only my wife is in the non welding machine hoarding camp.
Reply:Now I am wondering what you plan on building. And what axle has tubes with 1/2 thick walls?
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPHow many pairs of shoes does she have?
Reply:Originally Posted by RolngthunNow I am wondering what you plan on building. And what axle has tubes with 1/2 thick walls?
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughSpray transfer numbers from miller chart with 035 wire on steel using 75/251/4 inch 24-25 volts, wire speed 400-420 ipm, 200-210 amps5/16 inch 25-26 volts, wire speed 420-520 ipm, 220-250 amps3/8 inch 26-27 volts, wire speed 375 ipm (045), 300 amps.So it seems that no matter which machine you use, niether the 230 or 252 will weld over 5/16 in a single passKeep in mind that miller wire speed numbers are usually a bit on the high side. Now all you have to do is record the voltages on each tap (while welding) and wire feed speeds in inches per minute and you will be setNew to forum and relative noob at welding. About a year and a half ago I purchased my first welder; a Hobart Ironman 230. I will need to be able to weld 1/4" mild steel to 1/2" mild steel, from time to time, in tee joints. Since purchasing the welder I have been practicing MIG welding as well as doing research on the subject. Also, I have read many an instructional document and forum threads about the need for spray transfer for 1/2" or thicker mild steel welds.While the Ironman 230 is rated up to 1/2", I do not believe it is capable of spray transfer, at least not with .035 wire and up. That said, if the Ironman 230 is rated for 1/2" but can only use the short circuit process for this weld then should I infer from the rating that a multi pass weld will be needed to safely weld 1/4" mild steel to 1/2" mild steel? The reason I ask is because I may have the ability to purchase a Millermatic 252, which I believe is capable of spray transfer, at least at the thicknesses I mentioned, at a competitive price. I would then sell the Ironman. My next question is would you feel the need to purchase the Millermatic in order to properly weld steel of these thicknesses or would the Ironman suffice? Maybe the Ironman would be just as well suited if I used flux core?
Reply:I don't think you will have a problem with the I/M 230. I believe you can spray .035" wire with 98% Argon and 2% O2. Even if you don't get into true spray transfer you will have a good hot arc and adequate penetration. Dual-shield (gas-shielded flux core wire) is also a good option.OTOH, never miss an excuse to get another tool! The MM252 is a dang nice machine.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Thanks. Is it fair to assume that with the Ironman multiple passes will be required?And yep I am down with getting a new machine anytime.
Reply:Due to the additional top power and duty cycle the MM 252 is a better 1/2" unit then the Ironman 230. However, the Ironman 230 does offer sufficient top end power to produce very sound welds on 1/2" steel. For home use, spray transfer isn't required. Use the unit in the upper taps with C-25, and you'll end up with a high energy arc that is beyond shallow penetrating short circuit transfer. Don't try this out of position though, like on a vertical up. The Ironman 230 offers enough top end power to spray an .030 or .035 wire with 98/2 oxy. The Ironman 230 offers enough spray power to run single pass fillets on 1/4" steel. Thicker material can be done in multiple passes. If you want a full size weld on 1/2" you should use multiple passes with the Ironman 230 or MM252. Spray transfer is not all position. For home use all position welding on thicker steel, a Hobart .035 Excel-Arc™ 71 gas shielded fluxcore might be the better way to go over spray transfer. One reason being you can use C-25 as your shielding gas for this wire.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Originally Posted by DanDue to the additional top power and duty cycle the MM 252 is a better 1/2" unit then the Ironman 230. However, the Ironman 230 does offer sufficient top end power to produce very sound welds on 1/2" steel. For home use, spray transfer isn't required. Use the unit in the upper taps with C-25, and you'll end up with a high energy arc that is beyond shallow penetrating short circuit transfer. Don't try this out of position though, like on a vertical up. The Ironman 230 offers enough top end power to spray an .030 or .035 wire with 98/2 oxy. The Ironman 230 offers enough spray power to run single pass fillets on 1/4" steel. Thicker material can be done in multiple passes. If you want a full size weld on 1/2" you should use multiple passes with the Ironman 230 or MM252. Spray transfer is not all position. For home use all position welding on thicker steel, a Hobart .035 Excel-Arc 71 gas shielded fluxcore might be the better way to go over spray transfer. One reason being you can use C-25 as your shielding gas for this wire.
Reply:I'm curious, what type of brackets are you welding to what 1/2" tubing? What are the stresses involved?Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI'm curious, what type of brackets are you welding to what 1/2" tubing? What are the stresses involved?
Reply:You can do spray with a 230. Its just a question of voltage and wire speed. There's a couple utube vids on wire speed calculations and voltage for tapped machines. Check out chucke2009. Then get a miller calculator. Buying a 252 is never a bad idea though. Also you might look into 045 lincoln outersheild. Use with c25. Its a much better weld on thick metals
Reply:Originally Posted by cold rolledRight now just practicing so no stress other than Hammer test for strength. In the far off future I hope to be able to weld suspension bracketry to axle tube.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughYou can do spray with a 230. Its just a question of voltage and wire speed. There's a couple utube vids on wire speed calculations and voltage for tapped machines. Check out chucke2009. Then get a miller calculator. Buying a 252 is never a bad idea though. Also you might look into 045 lincoln outersheild. Use with c25. Its a much better weld on thick metals
Reply:Originally Posted by cold rolledOk so the consensus seems to be that while it would be nice to be a welder hoarder, it is not necessary in this case. I am almost sad to hear that...
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveWhoa!! Who said hoarding welders was bad?!? That's crazy talk there...I firmly support bad habits like too many tools and welders
Reply:Spray transfer numbers from miller chart with 035 wire on steel using 75/251/4 inch 24-25 volts, wire speed 400-420 ipm, 200-210 amps5/16 inch 25-26 volts, wire speed 420-520 ipm, 220-250 amps3/8 inch 26-27 volts, wire speed 375 ipm (045), 300 amps.So it seems that no matter which machine you use, niether the 230 or 252 will weld over 5/16 in a single passKeep in mind that miller wire speed numbers are usually a bit on the high side. Now all you have to do is record the voltages on each tap (while welding) and wire feed speeds in inches per minute and you will be set
Reply:Originally Posted by cold rolledThanks for your reply. So far only my wife is in the non welding machine hoarding camp.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughSpray transfer numbers from miller chart with 035 wire on steel using 75/251/4 inch 24-25 volts, wire speed 400-420 ipm, 200-210 amps5/16 inch 25-26 volts, wire speed 420-520 ipm, 220-250 amps3/8 inch 26-27 volts, wire speed 375 ipm (045), 300 amps.So it seems that no matter which machine you use, niether the 230 or 252 will weld over 5/16 in a single passKeep in mind that miller wire speed numbers are usually a bit on the high side. Now all you have to do is record the voltages on each tap (while welding) and wire feed speeds in inches per minute and you will be set
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveAlways need a backup for the main welder - and a small one that's portable...and an engine drive... ...or a few of each when you buy low to sell high.Truthfully, I've bought several welders I didn't really need, used them until the time was right, sold for more than I paid.It saves time on my actual machines and I make money - win/win Lots of guys do it - I do the same with vehicles.
Reply:Really what you NEED is a millermatic 350p! Get em cheap off ebay.....and its twice the machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughReally what you NEED is a millermatic 350p! Get em cheap off ebay.....and its twice the machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughCheck out chucke2009.
Reply:Originally Posted by cold rolledAll valid points, but reasoning won't work with my wife...but I guess bribery would
Reply:Originally Posted by cold rolledThanks for your reply. So far only my wife is in the non welding machine hoarding camp.
Reply:Now I am wondering what you plan on building. And what axle has tubes with 1/2 thick walls?
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPHow many pairs of shoes does she have?
Reply:Originally Posted by RolngthunNow I am wondering what you plan on building. And what axle has tubes with 1/2 thick walls?
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughSpray transfer numbers from miller chart with 035 wire on steel using 75/251/4 inch 24-25 volts, wire speed 400-420 ipm, 200-210 amps5/16 inch 25-26 volts, wire speed 420-520 ipm, 220-250 amps3/8 inch 26-27 volts, wire speed 375 ipm (045), 300 amps.So it seems that no matter which machine you use, niether the 230 or 252 will weld over 5/16 in a single passKeep in mind that miller wire speed numbers are usually a bit on the high side. Now all you have to do is record the voltages on each tap (while welding) and wire feed speeds in inches per minute and you will be set |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:39:39