Transmission Case...

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Look what was waiting for me this A.M....After prep...Next!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:COOL !       The best part is that it is not from your car !
Reply:Welded 3 times inside once outside..Weld #1...After weld #3..Looked good to me.I only tacked the outside so it would not move and got all the trash out of the weld from the inside..Weld...grind..Weld....grind..Weld.....grind the inside until there was no more contamination then do the outside and LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!3/32" Red..Machine on stun..1/16" 5365 filler..Pedal!I get all the fun jobs......zap!Last edited by zapster; 01-20-2014 at 03:05 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Not every fix is pretty, but you know what your looking at while your doing it, good save bro. I hate jobs like that and get them on a daily, and no matter what the prep sometimes you just can't get em pretty due to shlt just boiling out of a porous infected casting. Even a contaminated weld is still stronger then the original casting. Good job man, and get a cell phone weenie head! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Good save zap, as Mike said and I'm sure you already know welding cast aluminum sux, all the impurities love to float to the top when welding
Reply:I do these pretty frequently.  Typically I'll use a carbide burr and bevel it out,and clean the surrounding area with the burr/flap wheel as well.  How come you didn't clean the outside surrounding area, and the weld is so cold?  I know the more heat you pour to it, the more junk comes out of the pores, but typically it welds up pretty nicely for me.  I know you're better than this!Craig MontgomeryM&L Fabrication, LLChttps://www.facebook.com/pages/ML-Fa...8228829?ref=hl
Reply:Originally Posted by montgoc3I do these pretty frequently.  Typically I'll use a carbide burr and bevel it out,and clean the surrounding area with the burr/flap wheel as well.  How come you didn't clean the outside surrounding area, and the weld is so cold?  I know the more heat you pour to it, the more junk comes out of the pores, but typically it welds up pretty nicely for me.  I know you're better than this!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI was happy with it.And it takes ALOT to make me happy....zap!
Reply:If ya look close there is a bevel on each side on both parts..These can get trickey because the alignment dowel is involved..Ya can't grind to a point on this because it has to go in EXACTLY where it goes or else block alignment would be a problem.so I leave the original break in tact somewhat for set up ease...It is cleaned as good as it gets on the break but I won't touch it with a grinder...A little off here and a little off there = Bad news......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by montgoc3I do these pretty frequently.  Typically I'll use a carbide burr and bevel it out,and clean the surrounding area with the burr/flap wheel as well.  How come you didn't clean the outside surrounding area, and the weld is so cold?  I know the more heat you pour to it, the more junk comes out of the pores, but typically it welds up pretty nicely for me.  I know you're better than this!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterIf ya look close there is a bevel on each side on both parts..These can get trickey because the alignment dowel is involved..Ya can't grind to a point on this because it has to go in EXACTLY where it goes or else block alignment would be a problem.so I leave the original break in tact somewhat for set up ease...It is cleaned as good as it gets on the break but I won't touch it with a grinder...A little off here and a little off there = Bad news......zap!
Reply:i've never done anything like this but, to remove the impurities that are in the case (tranny fluid, grease...) could you use some heat before welding to try and remve the impurities?  meaning, burn all the bad stuff out of the pores in the metal?
Reply:Done a few of those over the years, some can be a real bear because of the contamination. Did you clamp anything to the face to hold it straight while welding? Sometimes you can do that and it helps to keep everything in place.
Reply:I would charge the dipschitt tax. ex. Hey dipschitt did you take all the bolts out of the bell housing before I pull the engine out with the Terex Loader? Yes I did...... p.s. I paid the tax before.Arcon Workhorse 300MSPowcon 400SMTPowcon SM400 x 2Powcon SM3001968 SA200 Redface1978 SA250 DieselMiller Super 32P FeederPre 1927 American 14" High Duty LatheK&T Milwaukee 2H Horizontal MillBryan
Reply:Hey man looks like a good fix to me. I have welded a few tranny cases up with my spool gun and it sure can be tricky setting up. I now keep an old piece of tranny out back to help with the set up some. One thing i do is clean the area with degreaser and then vinegar and hot soapy water. I then heat the area some with a propane torch and then clean again with the vinegar and soapy water. I then tack it up check alignment and v-out the best i can. Ill heat it again and clean with vinegar and soapy water. The thing i hate is when i forget to turn the wire speed back after welding one side due to heat building up.Fireman BillHH 210 MVPMM 211 Spoolmate 100Lotas LTP5000D PlasmaOxy/Accet (Victor)Wards AC/DC buzz box30 ton old hyd pressA few brand name toolsA bunch of cheap toolsA wife to worry me and4 dogs to supervise me
Reply:I have welded many broke cases that should have been thrown out, but you know how that goes.I see here that the aluminum was not at all clean on the outside of the case and the weld is very cold and poor looking and honestly im not even sure what to think of the bead on the outside . I would have cleaned the inside and outside surfaces off, put a bigger bevel, clamped a 3/4"x4 or so flat bar across the matting surface, took the torch and preheat the aluminum, brushed it out, tack one side and weld one side, clean the other side and re bevel if need be and  finish welding. I would not grind any of my welds. I do know that not every cast aluminum mix is the same and some weld better than others and some weld like crap.Just my 2 centsLast edited by kkustomz; 01-20-2014 at 08:26 PM.
Reply:This is the last one I did. Dont know why the pics loaded this way but oh wellMiller trailblazer301gLincoln sa200Miller251Miller spectrum 625Victor oxy-acc2002 Chevy duramax 3500 dually 4x4
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterIf ya look close there is a bevel on each side on both parts..These can get trickey because the alignment dowel is involved..Ya can't grind to a point on this because it has to go in EXACTLY where it goes or else block alignment would be a problem.so I leave the original break in tact somewhat for set up ease...It is cleaned as good as it gets on the break but I won't touch it with a grinder...A little off here and a little off there = Bad news......zap!
Reply:Thanks everyone!When it fails I will let ya know....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by blawlessI would charge the dipschitt tax. ex. Hey dipschitt did you take all the bolts out of the bell housing before I pull the engine out with the Terex Loader? Yes I did...... p.s. I paid the tax before.
Reply:Blackbeard, from the pics that is a old powerglide or gm case case, it should have welded rather well. I am not inteneding to be mean but, if I did repairs that bad looking I would not  charge someone or take a picture. I am going to have to look for pics of ones i have done tonight.
Reply:Zap did a nice job on some rotten metal in that case. There are some pieces of metal that are so bad that welding them is problematic from the start. A close look at that case tells me that the metal is terribly oxidized. As mentioned, all of that junk has to be floated out of the weld area. Another example with which I'm very familiar are old Harley primary and transmission cases. The metal in those early parts was sand cast and was full of holes and porosity when it left the factory. It was so bad that the insides of the parts had to be painted with shellac to close up all of the blow holes. Some of them would leak right through the cases and the only way to stop the pinhole leaks was with a ball peen hammer from the outside. You can clean that stuff all you want and the oil will bubble out every time. Welding it can be a nightmare.Good job Zap!Last edited by gnm109; 01-21-2014 at 10:13 AM.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Originally Posted by kkustomzBlackbeard, from the pics that is a old powerglide or gm case case, it should have welded rather well. I am not inteneding to be mean but, if I did repairs that bad looking I would not  charge someone or take a picture. I am going to have to look for pics of ones i have done tonight.
Reply:That's a Ford 4R70(AODE)case... For those that are speculating as to what may have caused the break, the answer is right there in the picture.By design, the dowel pins have a very tight press fit into the block, with a slip fit into the trans case. Those dowels have been attacked by galvanic corrosion, and are virtually welded into the case. The force required to separate the trans and engine would have been pretty extreme pulling these pins out of the block. I'd wager the right side broke loose first, and things got a little crooked, and it was just too much for the corner of the case...I would have scrapped the case. But that's often a decision that's based on the availability of a replacement. I would have no problem in my area finding a core trans for a reasonable price. That doesn't always hold true everywhere... I just don't like repairing a case that's had the locators broken off. All it takes is a few thousandths of an inch movement, And you've got a trans that eats front bushings and breaks flexplates.That being said, if faced with the need to fix, the above repair looks about as good as you're going to get while using the fracture as a locator, and avoiding excess heat that would move things around and potentially ruin it... I'm probably one of the least experienced weldors here, so I won't try to rate someone else's welding, but I doubt there is anyone here that has my experience in the transmission field, so I can say with confidence what I would require if I commissioned someone to do that repair.... The most important factor by far would be that the dowel is EXACTLY where it was before the break. From what I can see, that was the primary goal in how this repair was performed, and I would have gladly accepted the final product...  Now let's hope whoever broke it, is smart enough to fix the dowel problem before trying to put it back in....    LOL.... my spell check flagged "weldor"
Reply:Maybe the dowel should have been removed before it was welded, no since in breaking it again.Tim Beeker.To all of the naysayers in this repair, the dowel is there to keep the transmission from rotating on the engine.  There are no tensile strains.  Since it is pretty well surrounded by area that broke away it's not likely even without a weld repair to rotate.  Remember it broke because the dowel rusted into the engine and failed while the transmission was being pulled away from the engine (which is hardly a normal operating condition)  There is nothing bad to say about this repair, it will work.  Get off your internet soap boxes.   As Zap said, he did not grind through the fracture and that will maintain the alignment as close as possible and those dowels are ONLY there for alignment.
Reply:Yes but it is supposed to be in the block and the tranny slips onto it.Tim Beeker.
Reply:Looks good curious as to why you chose 5356 I have read that it is not good for sustained heat over 150 deg F?But I read that on the internet Last edited by dump; 01-22-2014 at 08:50 AM.
Reply:On most of these tranny cases you have to grind the inside for clearance with the torque converter.
Reply:Originally Posted by dumpLooks good curious as to why you chose 5356 I have read that it is not good for sustained heat over 150 deg F?But I read that on the internet
Reply:In reply to post #31:5356 is not recommended for use in service conditions were the temperature is over 150°F because their is a risk of stress corrosion cracking(SCC).  BUT, for SCC to occur, you need a high stress(load) applied to the weld, and you need conditions favorable for corrosion, together with the elevated temperature.  If any of the 3 elements are missing(temp, stress, corrosive environment) then nothing bad happens.I won't speak about this specific transmission case example.  But it's conceivable that there are applications for 5356 filler metal where the service environment is over 150°F.Last edited by A_DAB_will_do; 01-22-2014 at 04:27 PM.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI don't believe that for 1 second no matter WHO says so.I have welded pistons that go into Top Sportsman engines with 5356 and they are still alive.'Nuff said....zap!
Reply:I have never welded aluminum so I have no idea if it behaves like Steel does when it is heated and cooled (distortion). Is the hole in the piece that broke off still aligned with whatever was aligned before? If it was me, having welded it without bolting it in place first... it will surely be out of alingment! Maybe the tolerances allow to use it as is. How about the sealing surface? Does it need to be machined flat again?Mikel
Reply:Originally Posted by Mikel_24I have never welded aluminum so I have no idea if it behaves like Steel does when it is heated and cooled (distortion). Is the hole in the piece that broke off still aligned with whatever was aligned before? If it was me, having welded it without bolting it in place first... it will surely be out of alingment! Maybe the tolerances allow to use it as is. How about the sealing surface? Does it need to be machined flat again?Mikel