ironworker union or not?

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Been goin to school for only 5 months now but im loving welding. Im at the top of my class right now because of my work ethic. Well i got a lead on a job being an ironworker outside Nashville,  Tn but as a plan B i decided to call up the local union and the apprenticeship guy basically said my school is a complete joke and im wasting my time/ GI bill. So with ive been heavily considering going the union route. Its a 3 year apprenticeship and starts at 17.84. The other job low balled me at 12/ hr. Anyway what do you union guys like/dislike about being in the union.  Thanks. And yes im sure i wanna be an ironworker im not scared of heights(jumped outta planes for 6 years) and something about being 9 stories up looking over a city im helping to build just sounds like a freakin blast.Just good enough aint good enoughIf your gonna be a bad welder you better be a darn good grinder
Reply:Ironworker assembling, fitting and bolting or a welder in the ironworkers union?  Big difference. Make sure you know exactly what job they are looking for. It could be this union is wanting ironworkers and not welders and that's why the guy is bad mouthing your school? Ironworkers typically don't do the welding but get everything ready for the welders.
Reply:Well he said once om out of apprentice school ill have certs. So im guessing iron worker welding but i could be dead *** wrongJust good enough aint good enoughIf your gonna be a bad welder you better be a darn good grinder
Reply:Here ya go:   http://www.ironworkers.org/training/...-certification
Reply:Alberta Canada is one of very few places were an Ironworker does ironwork and the Ironworker welder welds. If you want to do both in Alberta, you need to be a journeyman Ironworker and a journeyman welder. Most other places in North America any journeyman Ironworker who has a structural welding ticket can do the welding. Alberta takes it step further and separates the 2 trades.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Wornoutwelder i was checking that out last nightSnopproe i got ya i think thats how it should be but who am i to say? I do love hockey but i dont think thats a good enough reason to convince the wife to move to Canada shes not exactly a fan of the cold lolJust good enough aint good enoughIf your gonna be a bad welder you better be a darn good grinder
Reply:Hate to ask this, but are you going to a for-profit school? If so, then that's your problem.I'm a fan of unions in general, but not required membership or union bosses. Required membership hurts people who're out of work and might not be able to afford union dues during the break, and can also form a barrier that stops people from getting into a field. Union bosses, same issue. Too many of them are getting rich off everyones' dues, instead of putting them back into services for union members. Then again, I work in a Right to Fire state so I see the need for strong unions that can stand up to the fat cats in management.
Reply:Inquire about the work load for union . You must consider that that you maybe laid off at times , outside weather conditions may shutdown work for days, and travel will be required.As for the Union member, I am a retired Union Pipefitter/welder  and my pension and health care is awesome ! I never thought about pension 45 years ago but now realize how important it is. I was fortunate to always be employed and  never collected unemployment . Whatever you decide, YOU need to sell yourself in today's workplace. It is not like it was 40 years ago when you could quit a job and go a block down the street for another job. Like the military you need to be the best you can be. THANKS FOR SERVING !!      Good luck in your decision.
Reply:Thats whats kinda pushing me away from that is i have a wife and kid that that solely rely on my paycheck to put bread on the table. Like most of you guys i cant afford to be laid off. Id like to have a job with alot of security.  Not necessarily a 9-5 weld part A to part B (not bashing just not my cup of tea) but i come from a very blue collar family where if your not grinding it out working your a$$ of day in and day out then you dont eat and i love that lifestyle. Just trying to make sure im making the best decision for my familyJust good enough aint good enoughIf your gonna be a bad welder you better be a darn good grinder
Reply:What keeps your boss from firing you tomorrow?............nothing Tennessee is both "right to work" and "employment at will" Do you think the other job is gonna raise it's offer once your done with school?......no but you'd be up to 80-90% of journey men's rate if you went union. I'm a union operating engineer so the ironworkers will be different. I work for a large heavy equipment dealership operating 21 stores in 6 states. The union Shops make considerably more than the nonunion ones, plus we get health and dental insurance we don't pay out of pocket for, we also just got our prescription eyeglasses coverage back.  The union just upped the rate of return on the pension we don't contribute out of pocket for (the company stopped matching 401k contributions 6yrs ago) If you go union (I strongly encourage you too) don't live beyond your means just cuz times are good when your working, sock some money away if you get laid off. If you get laid off, collect unemployment, you paid into it, dip into the rainy day find if you have to and take as many classes at the hall as you can
Reply:in my local all our apprentices graduate with min smaw 1" certs but usually with stick,fcaw,ss stick certs also taught steel erection,rigging,rebar ,pre-engineered,machinery moving 3yrs of school raises @6 mo intervals as far as year round employment ,like my uncles told me " kid dont get in a position where you cant live on unemployment" we have pension health ins vacation pay you need to be prepared to travel to work sometimes and it all aint perfect but after 31 yrs its been pretty good for me
Reply:Thats very insightful mike thanks. Being ex military i stll want that brotherhood bond im not sure if the union has that kinda cohesion or not but we'll see.Just good enough aint good enoughIf your gonna be a bad welder you better be a darn good grinder
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtThats very insightful mike thanks. Being ex military i stll want that brotherhood bond im not sure if the union has that kinda cohesion or not but we'll see.
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeAlberta Canada is one of very few places were an Ironworker does ironwork and the Ironworker welder welds. If you want to do both in Alberta, you need to be a journeyman Ironworker and a journeyman welder. Most other places in North America any journeyman Ironworker who has a structural welding ticket can do the welding. Alberta takes it step further and separates the 2 trades.
Reply:Originally Posted by steel_schmidtThats very insightful mike thanks. Being ex military i stll want that brotherhood bond im not sure if the union has that kinda cohesion or not but we'll see.
Reply:Originally Posted by Firemanmike69I get that bond with with some of the guys from the hall, not all of them tho, you get with a good crew and I would imagine it's similar to the military. Thank you for your service
Reply:Originally Posted by Firemanmike69I get that bond with with some of the guys from the hall, not all of them tho, you get with a good crew and I would imagine it's similar to the military. Thank you for your service
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveI'm in Alberta. We have the largest apprentice training facility in Canada. The Waiward Center for  Steel Technologies cost $10,000,000 alone. It's named after Waiward Steel since they donated $1,000,000. They have a just a few welding machines. http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...-training-RMD/
Reply:Originally Posted by Firemanmike69I get that bond with with some of the guys from the hall, not all of them tho, you get with a good crew and I would imagine it's similar to the military. Thank you for your service
Reply:In my local the apprenticeship program is four years. You start out @ 50% pay & as you accumulate on the job hrs & classroom instruction your pay increases. Be prepared @ the beginning to do a lot of flunky work but conditions improve as you prove yourself. In my area Ironworker crews are a close knit bunch & really look out for each other.REAL TRUCKS DON'T HAVE SPARK PLUGS
Reply:Originally Posted by Firemanmike69I get that bond with with some of the guys from the hall, not all of them tho, you get with a good crew and I would imagine it's similar to the military. Thank you for your service
Reply:Went to the union hall and the guy pretty much told me work is scarce right now so there goes that idea. I wouldn't be as worried about it if I didn't have a family to provide for.
Reply:Mister, complete the school you are in and NOW get on USAJOBS.COM and start building your resume for federal employment. Do it now.Take advantage of the advantages you've earned. Exploit them to the max. You want to feed your kids?...Feed them steaks...You busted up from military service? They will accommodate you....Right now the federal gov is hiring huge numbers of disabled vets like you into career positions where once on the payroll you can transfer interagency clean across the country into field/agency you want. ...first step is to get your foot in the door in maybe entry level position then you can stomp with big feet all the way to the top....they will hold the door open for you and pay for increased education and sometimes moving expenses.Been there, done that...started out retired senior enlisted navy, where I began over again wearing paper hat washing dishes part time in fed hospital with engineering degree and year later making 35/hr sitting on my *** as a federalized, unionized protected piece a chit sucking it up like a shop vac making more than staff engineers and with whole lots more freedom where my typical pose was middle finger up to them all.
Reply:OK thanks for the heads up I'll be doing  that tonight. That last paragraph has probably got to be the single greatest thing I've heard yet lol. Sounds like a disgruntled vets paradise lol
Reply:Here ya go....this link beats the feathers off civilian union stuff any day. Mister, you are special. You went in harm's way while the others stayed home. They went dancing every Sat night while you hoped to survive to see Sunday morning. You got yourself busted up and forgotten about and tossed on the streets to crawl in competition against those that can run.Read this: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...mbles-to-fill/A danged good buddy of mine that once lived and worked with me in my boiler plant applied there and got hired instantly because he was former navy and disabled vet. They flew him there for his interview, hired him, paid all his moving expenses and started him at 44/hr with double time overtime and triple time holidays.....The WHOLE danged facility was staffed by old vet blue collar workers with VERY strong union...The only requirement was to be a vet-disabled mobetter-and have basic industrial skills...blue collar stuff.Union membership offered once you hired, but fersure not required.Last edited by wornoutoldwelder; 04-10-2015 at 02:45 AM.Thanks for the kind words. I really do appreciate it. I read that article that's pretty crazy stuff. I'll get on USA JOBS and see if it's still on there
Reply:work in the unions pays better but quantity of work goes up and down with the economy... where work in the sweat shops is 24/7... at the end of a 10 year period you may only work half as much with the union but you will still have made the same + as the monkey in the sweatshop and have a pension to think of! lots a guys that work union fall back to a trivial job when there down... just to keep busy, roofing/carpentry/labour type things
Reply:I see what your saying I would just rather have a consistent amount of work
Reply:maybe when the economy comes around u might get a good several year run...if it comes around that is! I would really think about union..  pension benefits and all that good stuff,  and you get to see a bigger variety of work, the sweat shops will be the same **** over and over... the only thing that will changes is the seasons!
Reply:not sure to work union or not? in my neck of the woods that's the same as saying you'll work cheap and would rather see your pension,annuity,vacation and health care dough in the bosses pocket than your's. if you are fortunate he may offer a profit sharing plan with as many loopholes as a donald trump pre-nup.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by rambinmaybe when the economy comes around u might get a good several year run...if it comes around that is! I would really think about union..  pension benefits and all that good stuff,  and you get to see a bigger variety of work, the sweat shops will be the same **** over and over... the only thing that will changes is the seasons!
Reply:I say get the apprenticeship.  Check with the VA and seem if you can collect assistance on an OJT Program while in the apprenticeship.  I do not know what is allowed under the present GI Bill. Many years ago I was enrolled in a diesel mechanics course utilizing my VA/ GI Bill benefits.  Following that course I had an opportunity to get a government job in a completely different field.  There was a formal OJT program and I was allowed to change my major/ interest.  I am not sure of the proper term.  But my benefits allowed me to get some support since the OJT program was not at the "journeyman" level wage.  Check with the VA and utilize every drop of the benefits allowed.  Good luck
Reply:You want to be an ironworker? That's me chilling on 2nd floor. Don't have any more of my walking, climbing or sliding down the outside column anymore. That was in 2008 or 2009. We were building Forrest General Hospital in Picayune, MS. If you want to move further down south I know of some non union ironwork companies for you to check into. Never had the opportunity to go union when I was ironworking down here. If you have the chance I say go for union. There are no benefits ironworking for steel erection companies around here unless you find a large outfit. I was working for smaller ones. Last edited by AndrewDavenport89; 04-23-2015 at 11:25 AM.
Reply:Remember the two main functions of any union is to collect dues and protect their upper hierarchy. To expect more than that, you will be disappointed and if you do get what you expect consider your self lucky.Only people who are really wasting their time and money on education are the ones barrowing money to pay for a political science major or getting a 4 year English degree.Jusing GI bill to pay for an advanced welding degree, on the list of bad ideas, I don't think that would be one of them.Last edited by mad welder 4; 04-23-2015 at 01:34 PM.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:lol a 4 year English degree    I wonder if I can do an upside down laugh D: D: D: political science rofl. College might be great for some things, but not everybody has that option. I sure didn't. I just used what god gave me. Back, Hands, Legs and brain. Everything else learned was a kick in the *** on the job site
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4Only people who are really wasting their time and money on education are the ones barrowing money to pay for a political science major or getting a 4 year English degree.