Weld Feature, What is this?

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Ignore the rust soaked color of the materiel in the photo. It's gone through a few shabby image editing programs to give it that look. My question is with the center of my bead. Notice the line running the length of it? It's actually a very slight divot. What is this? What causes it? Is it something to be concerned about? I've never had that kind of thing with my old transformer machine. It wasn't until I got my new inverter that it's happening quite often.
Reply:ive always heard it called a heat line... usually an indicator that your doing it right! nice weld
Reply:From what it looks like to me you have a hot fluid weld and because there is the small gap with a lot of steel mass in the area it cooled pretty quick and the shrinkage caused the line to form.Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:That's a great picture.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:HornsNice photo quality.Was this a horizontal flat weld, and what was the gap between the pre-weld sections?Does your welder have an Inductance 'Dig' function?Until the weldor geeks chime-in, I will chance that a lineal divot at the crown of any critical bead would be considered a defect.For home shop weld over-kill, this weld is certainly serviceable; and I am as interested in the, cause and effect, as you.Opus
Reply:Can't wait for the experts to chime-in....my opinion is that it isn't a defect. that's even a +. I may be wrong also, wouldn't be the firs time lol.
Reply:Man that's hard to say, and iv'e had it happen with dual shield but not solid wire. Spray no doubt, so mega heat, and it almost goes away in a few spots where there is a slight glitch in the uniformity, so I'm going with wire speed and voltage are slightly off or operator error due to the previous statement and wrong gun angle and the more I type I keep thinking of more ways why it happened. WTF show more pics of a few more gummy worms. Seriously send a few more pics of samples bud.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:I think the line is formed by shrinking when the weld solidifies. A fused butt weld will do it, it indicates not enough filler was used. In this case I'm not entirely sure.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Yep... not enough filler. More noticeable during GTAW for me.
Reply:Not many people who whant to illuminate us on this... I tried to find some info but with all the crap on the web the closest similarity i found was on weldreality in the mig pages they have a pic not very high def. but it seems to have that line.  Calling the experts, is it a pass or a fail?
Reply:I'm way way off from being an expert but lincoln has some illustrations of something similar to this when discussing bead height to width ratios. The molten metal cooling to the heat sink of the sides leaving the center to cool last and caving in slightly. Now in this case it doesn't quite look like a height to width issue but it kinda of appears that there is some fairly large base metal sections in comparison to the bead size, lots of heat sink effect. Maybe some preheat was in order??"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:I would say a fail because of the line. If you were to hit it with a grinder lightly I think it would disappear. I don't think its insufficient filler, although that can cause that on butt welds. The bead appears convex rather than concave.Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:How big is the required filletExperience is something you get right after you need it
Reply:+1 indication of using enough heat. It's a good thing.1:50SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:that's a great pic of a good weld on crappy material. kinda looks like a cgi. i've seen that line before but don't have a clue as to it's meaning. maybe something to do with how it cools?i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:I've heard it called a freeze line. I don't think it is a defect. I see it more with pulse MIG welds. What kind of inverter do you have?JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:In the plastic injection molding word I saw that all the time. It was caused then the plastic cooled in an area with a rib on the back side and the plastic shrank as it cooled. I have no clue if it means the same with the photo.-Spike
Reply:Sorry to not get around to this earlier. As noted, both pieces are used, as this was an in house project and I wasn't too concerned about it. They were both ground to clean metal though. It was welded in the 2F position, pretty much as the picture shows. The picture was just taken at a slight angle. The bottom part is 4", 1/4" thick channel. The other is 1/4" plate. It's a spot that needs to be quite sound structurally. The welder I was using was a Miller 252 with a Benard Q-Gun. To give a little bit of a background story on what kind of work I do... I'm 20 years old. Welding is what I do for work. I've been trying to build a business making containers and products for the scrap recycling industry. I started when I was about 17 years old. I've done no schooling, taken no classes, and I've bought no instructional DVD's. My father started me out in the beginning showing me the basics and I've read forums, watched Youtube, and talked to others in the profession for countless hours trying to advance my skills. I had honestly never seen anything like what I have pictured until I got my inverter machine. I was truly concerned about it never hearing any mention of it before. I thank you guys for responding because I really care about my work and these welds need to be structural. Now, some of you are saying it's a negative, some of you are saying it's a positive. It seems the general consensuses is that it's a positive. Any other with experience on this care to chime in? Thank you all for the knowledge. Like I said, it's one of the few ways I can hone my skill.
Reply:A few specs you guys wanted that I forgot to mention... Solid core ER70-S6, no pulse, no gap. A weave pattern was used. And if you think it's spray transfer, then you must think you can spray with C25 gas. ~Via MobileLast edited by Horns; 02-18-2014 at 03:46 AM.
Reply:Only way i can think of to make sure that weld is sound is to try to break it . Note that in the comments we don't see anyone with a rock solid opinion as it's a good or bad weld, backed with references facts and experience. We more or less played a quiz answering the question with reserve. Waiting for some expert to chime-in.  Photo shopping the pic for opinions is misleading.  Not posting ALL parameters is also a mistake. Commenting it may also be a mistakebeing also self experienced as you are i would say break the weld and look very closely to it, it may well be not structurally sound.  good luck and keep posting
Reply:Not that the bead cracked, but this Lincoln article about cracking does discuss bead profile & etc.  See page two - bead shape induced cracking and also surface profile conditions.http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ldcracking.pdf"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Here we are... The exact weld pictures earlier, but without a filter, and at a few different angles. ~Via Mobile
Reply:Originally Posted by trunkzive always heard it called a heat line... usually an indicator that your doing it right! nice weld
Reply:Originally Posted by Brazinwhat more do you want?
Reply:Just one question for the Miller guys, you said this was done with a Miller 252, and you only saw this with the inverter machine, but I thought the 252 was still a transformer machine???Sent from my SCH-I545 using TapatalkTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250I showed your welds to our CWI and asked his opinion.he says the line down the middle is not a structural defect.  he said it is fairly common on some of the welds he sees on structural work.  the line is simply a relfection of the gap between the two metals and is an indicaiton that the fill material "sucked" down into the gap (his words not mine).  He said that if it was going to fail because of that line, it would have done so when it cooled.Other comments he made was that you should clean the metal better before you weld it and should grind back the end of your weld and re weld it.  grind out your divot and weld back into it from the other direction.  he said if you were to mag that weld you would likely see a bunch of micro crack already in the end of your weld and those could eventually propogate all the way through the weld depending on it's application.  the SOP in structural welding is to stop short, grind it back, and finish your weld out from the other direction.  this way, if you leave a divot or minor defect when you end your weld, you are not leaving the defect in a spot where it is likely to start a crack. another requrement we have on structures is to stop 1" away from the end, and NOT weld all the way around.  this prevents any cracked weld from propogating all around a member and  the way through the whole welded joint.  I see you are not doing a full weld, but if this will see cyclical loading, you should stop an inch away from the end, that is if you were doing structural welding in our state.he also said "that's a pretty weld, who did that?"so aside from the divot at the end, and the poor prep work, the weld by itself is sound.Last edited by Meborder; 02-19-2014 at 09:46 AM.
Reply:I have seen this a few times with the welding robot that I work with.  I only see it when running in pulsed spray.  It usually happens when part fit up isn't perfect.  It also seems more prone to happening when running higher travel speeds.  I have never really been concerned about it though.Nice welds BTW.
Reply:It almost looks like like a result of the slight gap in the the joint. The resulting defect being insufficient penetration on an open root.  IMO though, I'm no expert. If this is on a scrap container I would let it go.  You should see the bird **** that is on containers they send to me.Idealarc 250AC 225SVictor OA-older made in USA stuff.And a crap ton of other stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawJust one question for the Miller guys, you said this was done with a Miller 252, and you only saw this with the inverter machine, but I thought the 252 was still a transformer machine???Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Reply:I had that once too. I was welding some quickies last summer and saw the same thing. To me it didn't matter because it was just for some temporary things.As I can remember there was quite a gap between the plate and the rod, the upper weld does not have it, that one was welded already on the backside, I can't remember if the one with the line was already welded on the back.Lincoln Electric Invertec 170SLincoln Electric Powertec 350C PRO
Reply:Good weld. When I was in school, I had similar lines often. Instructors always liked it, and passed it (unless there was an unrelated defect)
Reply:Try to use 85/15 or 82/18 mix to get to pure spray transfer, because you are in globular now (splatter). I've seen this line when using thin wires with little too fast travel speed and high voltages, but i dont think thats anything bad.
Reply:Although I believe the question has been answered, I still feel the need to add my $0.02 (this is the internet, after all!).The phenomenon you are observing is known colloquially as suckback. I've also heard it called concavity. It is simply shrinkage caused by the root and/or legs of the weld freezing, contracting and sucking down the face of the weld as it is still in liquidus. The effect is most pronounced on open-root joints or joints with gaps. It does not indicate a defect.