Less features or more features

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If you were purchasing a tig welder what would be important to you?  I don't need one, but I want one so I can start learning and possibly one day start making money at it (as a retirement job).  I know it's the Indian and not the arrow but I just want a little feedback on what is really needed and what's not.  I know a stand alone tig isn't "needed" but I'd like to know which features you need in the real world and what would be more of the fluff.  If a feature is makes a huge difference that's good, but if it only makes a huge difference to a seasoned pro then I don't need it.  If you could have two machines with equal output, 1 machine being AC/DC (AC and DC having minimum features but at a 50% premium) and the other DC only (DC loaded with options and 50% less than the AC/DC model) which one would you pick? Anyway, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Reply:Aluminum is the future, and only works on AC.Buying a tig without AC is like buying a car without reverse.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Most advanced options are geared towards AC tig, Things like advanced wave forms, adjustable hertz, independent balance, etc. With DC tig about the only really "advanced" function would be high speed pulse.The majority of these functions won't really matter to the beginner tig student. If anything they just give the student more chances to complicate things and screw things up making it harder to learn.About the only real thing I'd suggest is to get a machine that can use a pedal, and get the pedal. If it's an AC/DC unit, adjustable balance can be a help, but it's not "required".At the tech school we have about 1/2 the tig guys learn on the XMT's. They are learning scratch start with the pedal. The other 1/2 usually are learning on the Syncrowave 250's. The only real "difference" between the two on steel is that with the Syncrowaves they have HF start so they can just hit the pedal to start the arc vs either using scratch start or lift start on the XMT's and the fact the Syncrowaves have the gas solenoid built in so they don't have to turn on the gas at the torch. Other than that they learn everything exactly the same.I'm a big fan of buying as much machine as you can afford, but just about any dedicated tig unit with a pedal will allow you to learn DC tig. In fact the pedal isn't really "required" to learn DC tig. It just makes it faster and easier to learn. Same goes for AC tig. Any dedicated AC/DC tig with pedal will work just fine to learn on, if it's an older Miller 330 AB/P with no advanced functions, or a newer Dynasty with all the bells and whistles..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I'm not sure I agree with that Terry. As much as I agree buying an AC/DC tig is a good idea, I'd rather see someone with a good name brand DC only tig vs one of the cheap import AC/DC units. I think in the long run they'll be better off.I can see learning the basics on a DC machine and later transitioning over to alum on an AC machine at a later date. I know you like to teach guys on Alum, but I still think it's easier for guys to learn on steel with DC, especially if they are trying to learn on their own over the internet. I see a lot more inexpensive used DC only tigs available than I do AC/DC ones in general. So I think it would be easier for someone to locate a reasonably priced DC only tig vs having to come up with about 2x the money for an AC/DC one..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I appreciate the replies.  I don't want to turn this into a cheap vs name brand machine.  I don't want to sound arrogant but I can afford to buy whatever I want/need.  I only want to know what features are a must, and what's more or less fluff for the real pros.  I do like the idea of being able to work with aluminum but if a bare bone machine is a pain in the *** to do it then I'm not interested.Last edited by mliebs; 01-10-2014 at 08:21 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by mliebsI appreciate the replies.  I don't want to turn this into a cheap vs name brand machine.  I don't want to sound arrogant but I can afford to buy whatever I want/need.  I only want to know what features are a must, and what's more or less fluff for the real pros.  I do like the idea of being able to work with aluminum but if a bare bone machine is a pain in the *** to do it then I'm not interested.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI'm not sure I agree with that Terry. As much as I agree buying an AC/DC tig is a good idea, I'd rather see someone with a good name brand DC only tig vs one of the cheap import AC/DC units. I think in the long run they'll be better off.I can see learning the basics on a DC machine and later transitioning over to alum on an AC machine at a later date. I know you like to teach guys on Alum, but I still think it's easier for guys to learn on steel with DC, especially if they are trying to learn on their own over the internet. I see a lot more inexpensive used DC only tigs available than I do AC/DC ones in general. So I think it would be easier for someone to locate a reasonably priced DC only tig vs having to come up with about 2x the money for an AC/DC one.
Reply:I disagree with the Tig experts on this one subject. I don't know sh!t about Tig welding. I bought a Dynasty 300, all I do is turn it on, and hold the torch, and I get welds like this. Trust me it's all machine. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I vote for no frills, 250+ amps, AC/DC tig.I have not used a fancy one yet (only used tig off-and-on couple years).  I am very happy with my 60's model dinosaur.I would enjoy a fancy one however - but in no way feel I lost any time by not having one right away.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI disagree with the Tig experts on this one subject. I don't know sh!t about Tig welding. I bought a Dynasty 300, all I do is turn it on, and hold the torch, and I get welds like this. Trust me it's all machine.
Reply:I owned a Miller 330A/BP for over 20-years, compared to my Dynasty 300. The 330 is a good boat anchor! Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonBut it don't hurt that your machine is sceered of ya too.
Reply:I have to say that once I've become accustomed to features, I always groan when I have to do without them.  I CAN do without them, but if I'm welding with someone else's setup for a job, and it's a barebones unit, I will internally pine for my own equipment.  That said, my own equipment is now beginning to be outdated.  The Dynasty 200dx's that I've used for years, now don't have all the features that the new ones have, with different wave patterns.  I haven't used any of these so I can't comment.  I'd say now that I don't need them, but if I had a chance to get used to them, I might feel like I really NEEDED them sometimes (though I suspect I might not really get too excited about them).That said, AC features that I consider really useful are balance and frequency, with balance taking precedence.  I don't find pulse very helpful for AC welding, but I do find it very useful for DC.  I wouldn't buy a TIG power source without a pulser these days unless I planned to use it only for heavy work.Miller Dynasty 200 DXMiller CP-300 with 30A feederHypertherm Powermax 900Oxy-fuel w/Harris torchesScotchman Glide-in bandsawMonarch 10EE latheEmi-Mec Autoturn latheDeckel FP2NC milling machinePro-Tools 105 Bender
Reply:Thanks for the replies.  I can see where too many options would be distracting and probably slow down the overall learning curve.
Reply:Originally Posted by mliebsI can see where too many options would be distracting and probably slow down the overall learning curve.
Reply:Bells and whistles break.When one bell don't work nothing does....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterBells and whistles break.When one bell don't work nothing does....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by mliebsIf you were purchasing a tig welder what would be important to you?....
Reply:I've got an ESAB Caddy 2200i TA34 and 90% of the time I don't mess with any of the features. I typically just set amps and post-flow and go. But sometimes it does come in real handy. I had to remove a broken exhaust bolt from head a while back and I believe it would have been much more difficult wrapped around a brake disc, upside down and no foot pedal without the pulse. I'm still kickin myself for not springing for AC though.NickESAB CaddyTig 2200iPowermax 45MM140 (Sold)
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPYeah but when you don't have the skills, those bells and whistles level the playing field for us mere mortals!
Reply:With respect to the "modern" machines that are more featured, I haven't experienced a single failure.  That said, I'm sure it happens, just that I haven't experienced it.  I've used at least 3 Dynasty 200dx's that are probably on the order of 10 years old, and not one of them has so much as hiccuped, and that's with regular use for years.  I don't use it often, but we also have a Miller Maxstar 200 that has worked day in and day out for years.  The Miller inverter machines I've encountered are very robust machines.  I had an old Invertec v200 that was also a very reliable machine, albeit clunky controls (pre-digital), which were actually sort of fun.  Maybe if it were a cheap machine, or an odd ball, but otherwise I think that modern, fully featured machines, aren't prone to problems.  I could be wrong.  In 40 years, that might change as the circuitry wears out, but then again, that machine has fully paid its dues by then IMHO.  If any machine is still going at that point, it doesn't owe anything to anybody, even if it keeps on working.  It's like expecting the retired neighbor guy to to keep fixing the neighborhood kids toys - he might still do it, but if he doesn't, nobody should get mad at him for it!Miller Dynasty 200 DXMiller CP-300 with 30A feederHypertherm Powermax 900Oxy-fuel w/Harris torchesScotchman Glide-in bandsawMonarch 10EE latheEmi-Mec Autoturn latheDeckel FP2NC milling machinePro-Tools 105 Bender
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKaiFirst, unit's reliability and manufacturer's customer service.  The purchase of the unit only starts the journey.  Proven track record, coupled to the ability to troubleshoot and resolve issues vis a vis humans wins.  Second, DC + AC capability.  You want AC.  Without AC, no Aluminum.  Third, juice wins.  Whether you target an inverter or a xformer, rip the unit with the highest amperage you can afford.  Buy once, cry once bro.  Should you opt for a high-speed (read: $$) inverter, one day you will learn to use these "bells y whistles" features.  Not now.  No.  When the time comes.  Think marathon, not sprint.Will not advise you on the Ford vs Chevy vs Mopar selection, but notice all the choice are Made in USA.  Have personnel experience with Red and Blue.  Partial to BLUE.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelon I can teach a monkey to weld alum on a Diversion or Sync210 or Dynasty basic.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldSkullWhat about a old "Cyclop" like me? Can you?I think I run empty wallet trying Gary! Unless you have one of those "Auto Tig"  CEP use.