Miller vs Hypertherm plasma cutters?

admin

I am new to this site and wanted to get some opinions before I bought my new plasma.I recently borrowed a PowerMax 30 and so I decided I need a Plasma for myself. It worked well on 1/4" steel, but I had to take my time, it would have been nice to move a little faster.I am comparing the: Powermax 30 $1489.00 and the Spectrum 375 X-treme $1249.00. Which is the way to go?  I've heard several times that hypertherm makes Millers Plasma's? But, most reveiws I read seem to lean towards hypertherm. If they are both made by hypertherm how is the miller less of a machine?  If I end up going with the PowerMax 30 I Might as well pay the extra $200 and get the PowerMax 45 for $1699.The Spectrum 625 X-treme is $1686 and seems comparable to the 45.Decisions, decisions... Anyone have any words of wisdom out of the 4 plasmas I talked about? P.S. Prices are CDN.
Reply:If I was shopping for a new plasma it would be either a Hypertherm or a Thermal Dynamics, both owned by Thermadyne company.Miller makes plasma cutters for Hobart, both owned by Illinios Tool Works company.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeHypertherm or a Thermal Dynamics, both owned by Thermadyne company.Miller makes plasma cutters for Hobart, both owned by Illinios Tool Works company.
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproe. . . both owned by Thermadyne company.
Reply:http://www.thermadyne.com/http://www.itw.com/itw/bu/power_systemsPulled from the archives...."One of the forum members works for Hypertherm jimcolt04-16-2008, 09:22 AMI work for Hypertherm....so I may be somewhat biased regarding our products...so I'll tell you about the company! I was the 13th employee hired in early 1978....which means I've been with the company for a little over 30 years. We currently are approaching 1000 associates (the associates own 1/3 of the company.....the founder, who owns the rest of it, is in his early 60's comes to work every day and sits at a cubicle like the rest of us.....there are no big mahogany offices!)... Hypertherm designs and manufactures "thermal cutting equipment"....which includes Plasma systems, both hand held and industrial mechanized...as well as Laser cutting equipment. We also manufacture CNC controls for plate cutting machines, Torch Height Controls for plasma and oxy-fuel, and Plasma cutting consumables for many brands of plasma cutters. We are located in 9 buildings in Hanover and Lebanon, NH....as well as sales and technical support offices throughout the world.Our products and support are good for a variety of reasons......the company is owned by the people that work there. The working conditions are great, the people are happy, and they are proud to build and support our products. Since the founder is an engineer...Hypertherm is a very strong engineering and research and development company regarding plasma and laser technology. A fair amount of our profit goes into engineering and relibility of current and next generation products....which will ensure our future success. If you looked at the ratio of engineering staff....many with advanced degrees...you would notice an abnormal number of engineering staff compared to manufacturing, sales and other necessary positions.The associates are happy, we engineer the hell out of our products, we have a state of the art manufacturing facility, 0ver 50% of our product is sold outside the US.....and yes, we sell a lot of plasma systems in China! Hope that helps!Jim Colt"My name's not Jim....
Reply:Hypertherm is privately owned.  If you are paying much more than a grand or so for a new Powermax30 from an authorized dealer you are  paying too much.
Reply:i have the reg 375 works great and only $1126.00
Reply:Hypertherm is owned by the employees, the equipment is all manufactured in our plants in the U.S. Prices for our products are suggested.....distributors of our products can set the prices that they sell them for. Hypertherm plasma systems are pretty well accepted for their performance and quality, and the company has a great reputation for supporting their products after the sale. We do not generally have the lowest prices, but we usually do provide the best value...which often is defined as cost of purchase + cost of operation = cost of ownership. Just for clarity....Hypertherm designs and manufactures most of Millers torches. In the past, Miller produced a few of Hypertherms power supplies, most notably the Powermax190, Powermax350 amd Powermax380. These power supplies are no longer in production.....and currently all of the Hypertherm power supplies are designed and manufactured in Hypertherm's Hanover NH facility.Jim Colt   Originally Posted by dstevensHypertherm is privately owned.  If you are paying much more than a grand or so for a new Powermax30 from an authorized dealer you are  paying too much.
Reply:Airgas is closing out Powermax 30 for $1144 US, down this page; http://www.airgas.com/browse/product...duct=HYP088003Powermax 600 closing out at $1671, down this page; http://www.airgas.com/browse/product...duct=HYP086030These look to be cost plus 5-15%Matt
Reply:At the end of last year I paid US$1003 for my Powermax30, shipped.  I see they've gone up a bit, Weldersource (where I got mine) has them for $1035 and other shops between $1075-1099.  I don't know that the Airgas price is a closeout, that's what I was quoted when I got mine.  They were also selling Diversion 165s for $1300 at the time.  Looks like the Spectrum is a bit more these days, starting around $1150.
Reply:The list price of the Powermax30 has not changed from the day it was introduced....it is just under $1300 US. The original poster was talking Canadian dollars......that is probably the big difference. You can shop around....but I always find it is best to work with your local distributor.....talk them into throwing in some gloves, glasses. If you need support it is always better to rely on a local....and I don't mind spending my money locally...even if it is a bit more.Jim
Reply:Yeah, I am talking Canadian Dollars.  Back to the original question what is the way to go as far as performance, reliability, and consumable consumption?
Reply:Personally i have never liked the plasmas from Lincoln or miller.    Hands down i would go hypertherm.    I have 5 esab plasmas that are around 6 years old now and are all outdated as they can be.   plasma technology has come along way in the last couple of years.I think the confusion your having with the miller/hypertherm thing is that hypertherm formed a sort of alliance with miller a while back.   Hypertherm wanted access to millers auto line changing technology and miller wanted access to hypertherms consumables and torch designs.    Its just a working relationship nothing more.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Here are the comparison numbers for the Hypertherm Powermax 30 vs the Miller 375 Xtreme:Miller:Output max amperage / duty cycle: 27 Amps @ 20% dutyInput current draw at 120 volts:28 AmpsInput current draw at 240 volts: 15 AmpsMax rated cut thickness: 3/8"Max severance cut: 5/8"Weight: 18 lbsTorch lead length: 12'Hypertherm Powermax30 specs:Output max amperage / duty cycle: 30 Amps @ 30% dutyInput current draw at 120 volts:26 AmpsInput current draw at 240 volts: 13.5 AmpsMax rated cut thickness: 3/8"Max severance cut: 1/2"Weight: 20 lbsTorch lead length: 15'So, the Miller has a lower duty cycle, lower output amperage, yet higher input current draw. The Miller is 2 lbs lighter, and claims to sever 5/8"The Hypertherm has lower input current, higher output current, higher duty cycle, longer torch lead, yet weighs 2 lbs more. The max cut ratings are the same, but the severance rating for Hypertherm is less at 1/2".Hypertherm produces the torches for both units, although the Miller torch is the same as the older technology Hypertherm Powermax380 torch....and the Powermax30 torch is a newer design, with much better front end visibility, as well as better cut quality/consumable life.Attached is a picture of a Powermax30 severance cut on 5/8".....Hypertherm always under rates its systems capability!I may be a bit biased, but the above data is right off the Miller and Hypertherm websites. The cut samples below were done in my home shop with my personal Powermax30....I also have a Powermax45 on a cnc machine and a Powermax1000 for hand cutting. I primarilay use the 30 for cutting in my shop......as it is so easy to use, and is so portable. The same nozzle has been in the torch since I got the system over two years ago....and it has done a fair amount of cutting from sheet metal to 1/4" and 3/8" (mostly cutting rectangular tubing to length...as it is faster than my band saw by a long shot) although I occasional will zip off a small piece of 1/2"...the picture of 5/8" below was done just to show that it can do it...the cut is untouched....you could knock off the dross easily with a couple of whacks with a hammer.If I was planning to cut any large amounts of 1/4" or thicker....I would drag the Powermax1000 out from under the bench....much faster, thicker.Jim Attached ImagesLast edited by jimcolt; 09-11-2010 at 08:46 AM.
Reply:ya they under rate it I chewed through a 1" torsion bar with my PM 30 and pierced and gouged a 1/2"x5" angle woo hoo....  and the same consumables are working about 16 months later talk about consumables life HA,They may out live me. as they shine up like new on the wire wheel...just a hair wider kerf than a new set but perfect for cutting scrap STILL!!!! Lincoln 225 Tombstone,Miller Big 20,Hobart 180,150' Argon,A/D hobart hood 22 Ton Log splitter,79 F350 dump eats 4.75 TONS and still turns cutters,grinders,And a  Hypertherm POWERMAX 30
Reply:I just traded up from a Miller 375 to a lager ESAB.  Not sure if the Powermax is that much better of if I just don't know how to use the Miller but I found the 375 to be underpowered for anything other than sheet metal.  Not that it's a bad unit, just not enough juice for thicker metal. If I was doing large amounts of 1/4 or better I'd go with the bigger machine.
Reply:Powermax30, running on 120 volt, 30 amp outlet....the pictures speak for themselves....dross knocks off easy, but is pretty much dross free to 3/16". Attached Images
Reply:Thanks for all the input everyone! I'm sold on the Powermax 45 and am buying it tomorrow! And I am going to pick up a miller 211 as well!
Reply:We bought a Powermax 30 at a place I worked last year. Great little machine, we must have cut 5 miles of SS sheet decking with it on 110 and a way to long extension cord and no problems. The big miller plasma crapped out in the shop and the little 30 is an animal on 220. I cut aluminum, and SS with it no problems.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by hole shot weaponThanks for all the input everyone! I'm sold on the Powermax 45 and am buying it tomorrow! And I am going to pick up a miller 211 as well!
Reply:What size metal are you looking to cut with your plasma cutter?  Hypertherm and Thermal Dynamics seem to be the best plasma cutters out there.  Most reliable, best support and most importantly they stand behind their products.I have a Hypertherm on my CNC plasma cutter and it works great!
Reply:Why don't you have the Hypertherm units listed on your web site?Jim
Reply:I was torn between the miller 375 & the hypertherm powermax 30, I originally wanted the miller to match my dynasty 200dx tig, but what sold me on the hypertherm over the miller was the power supply obviously being a little more efficient judging from the published #'s in the specs & the new better torch...
Reply:I did not read all the posts so if I am repeating something sorry.I thing both machines are fine both good manufactures.The thing I looked at in making this decision was when I need consumables how much will it cost and are they on the shelf at the LWS. That was the most important factor for me. I went with the CutMaster 82