Noob question regarding nuts and bolts....

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I'm just learning to weld and am working on a shelving project for my shed.  It has been a learning experience to say the least.  Once I was finished with the first half I figured out that it wasn't completely level due to my learning curve.  In any event, I came up with the idea to weld some large nuts to the bottom of the 1" tubing, and then put a bolt into each one, with the purpose of using that bolt to level the structure.  I got the nuts welded on today, and then figured out that the bolts would not go into the nuts very far.  I'm guessing that the nuts distorted due to the heat of my welds.I'm curious as to how I should have gone about accomplishing this.  What should I have done differently?I am open to all suggestions and trust me I welcome all input.  I'm a little frustrated and appreciate your help.Miller Diversion 165 TIGMillermatic 211/141 with Auto-SetHobart Stickmate LX235 AC/DC StickNorthern Tool 135 MIG & Dry Cut SawKlutch ST80i/ST200i Stick/TigGrizzly G9742 BandsawMilwaukee Circular Steel Saw/Portaband/SWAG Offroad Table
Reply:Are these spare parts you had floating around or did you go get them? If their spares make sure you're not trying to put a coarse threaded bolt into a fine threaded nut or vice versa.
Reply:I usually run a tap into the nut to clean it out.They will often shrink or distort from welding.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I purchased them at one of the box stores so I knew in advance that they would fit.It didn't feel like there was anything blocking the threads, it felt like the bolts fit the front of the bolt, but not the back side.  It was like the nut got smaller.Miller Diversion 165 TIGMillermatic 211/141 with Auto-SetHobart Stickmate LX235 AC/DC StickNorthern Tool 135 MIG & Dry Cut SawKlutch ST80i/ST200i Stick/TigGrizzly G9742 BandsawMilwaukee Circular Steel Saw/Portaband/SWAG Offroad Table
Reply:Do the bolts fit into the inside of the tubing? I know it's an obvious question, just had to ask Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:You didn't buy lock nuts did you?  Chuck a tap in your drill and chase the threads. Lube with oil. Dan D.Manipulator Of Metal
Reply:Any time I welds nuts I always do it with a bolt in it.   It helps absorb some of the heat.  I also often put a little high temp anti seize on the bolt before I thread it into the nut.  On yours, if you are sure you have matching threads for bolt and nut, you might need to run a tap through the nut to clean it up.
Reply:The bolts fit inside easily.  The nuts are large and do not.  I purchased extra large nuts so I could weld them to the bottom of the tubing.No lock nuts.It may be time to pick up a tap and die set.Miller Diversion 165 TIGMillermatic 211/141 with Auto-SetHobart Stickmate LX235 AC/DC StickNorthern Tool 135 MIG & Dry Cut SawKlutch ST80i/ST200i Stick/TigGrizzly G9742 BandsawMilwaukee Circular Steel Saw/Portaband/SWAG Offroad Table
Reply:Originally Posted by SpEdThe bolts fit inside easily.  The nuts are large and do not.  I purchased extra large nuts so I could weld them to the bottom of the tubing.No lock nuts.It may be time to pick up a tap and die set.
Reply:Originally Posted by SpEdThe bolts fit inside easily.  The nuts are large and do not.  I purchased extra large nuts so I could weld them to the bottom of the tubing.No lock nuts.It may be time to pick up a tap and die set.
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-basedAlways a good idea to buy more tools! Also, part of the problem may be over-welding. 3 good tacks should be enough to hold a nut in place unless very high torque is required.John
Reply:A good high temperature anti-seize is Milk of Magnesia.  Yeah, the stuff you get at the drug store.  It's a very high temperature refractory substance. Simple and safe chemical with a lot of uses."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Deffently chase the threads. It will probably cut some metal out. I've galled a few nuts and bolts from not chasing them
Reply:If you decide to weld the nuts with a bolt threaded into it, make sure your ground is on the same metal as the nut.  If you clamp your ground on the bolt and weld on the nut, you might just get an arc and weld the bolt to the nut....don't ask how I know....
Reply:Be careful you dont want to damage your nuts.................lolOf all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:I think my nuts are the only thing I haven't burned so far.  LOL!!Miller Diversion 165 TIGMillermatic 211/141 with Auto-SetHobart Stickmate LX235 AC/DC StickNorthern Tool 135 MIG & Dry Cut SawKlutch ST80i/ST200i Stick/TigGrizzly G9742 BandsawMilwaukee Circular Steel Saw/Portaband/SWAG Offroad Table
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumA good high temperature anti-seize is Milk of Magnesia.  Yeah, the stuff you get at the drug store.  It's a very high temperature refractory substance. Simple and safe chemical with a lot of uses.
Reply:As the poster above said, don't over-weld.  The nut may be getting so hot that it warps some.  You may also have some splatter inside the nut.  You can put the ant-splatter gel inside the nut before welding.
Reply:Nuts are like bearing races. To remove a stubborn race, you weld a couple of beads in it. When it cools, they shrink! Sounds like you welded ALL the WAY around the Nuts OD, hence when it cooled, it shrunk! End result is the bolt will NOT screw in! Like a previous poster stated, a couple of tack welds is sufficient!
Reply:Not sure if there is a Nut & Bolt company near you but there is such a thing as a heavy hex nut. This photo shows the difference between a regular grade 8 zinc yellow 1/2-13 nut and the same thread size plain steel, heavy hex nut, which is made for welding. It will resist warping from welding. I use heavy hex nuts all the time, plus they are not plated and easy to weld. Just wipe off the oil they are shipped with.Some people might suggest putting a bolt in the nut you are about to weld. Somehow to help it hold its form. do not do that. That is rookie advise. You will risk seizing the bolt inside the nut you just welded. This makes a big mess. Ive been there and done that.  Warping is a law of nature and a bolt in there is not going to help you except add risk to our afternoon. As others have suggested, just tap the threads, blow out with compressed air and add alittle oil or use anti-seize when assembling. good luck. You didnt do anything "wrong". These are the little things you deal with when building stuff. you are on your way!!
Reply:Great advice in this thread! 2 Hobart MIG welders, 1 on the gas 1 flux coreHTP Invertig 221 DV Eastwood TIG200HTP MIG 2400
Reply:Not just great, but GREAT!!! Thanks everyone. Sent from my iPad using TapatalkMiller Diversion 165 TIGMillermatic 211/141 with Auto-SetHobart Stickmate LX235 AC/DC StickNorthern Tool 135 MIG & Dry Cut SawKlutch ST80i/ST200i Stick/TigGrizzly G9742 BandsawMilwaukee Circular Steel Saw/Portaband/SWAG Offroad Table
Reply:Weld the nut with the bolt in place. Anytime I have welded nuts under a car frame, etc. I would put the bolt in the nut and then weld the nut. The bolt will keep it from distorting, especially if they are bigger. In most cases I would tighten the bolt so it would hold the but in place. Captured nuts are awesome, wish more were used in the automotive world.
Reply:Basically what Jimmy Pop said, do not weld them with a bolt in there.  You are just asking for trouble.  It doesn't solve anything and can just create more problems.  Minimizing your welding if you can will help keep the distortion down, like just welding three of the six sides or heavy tacks/short beads.  The key is chasing with a tap.Weld-ready nuts are the way to go, if you have access to them or can order from somewhere like McMaster.  Otherwise, I always dissolve off the coating with a little muriatic acid.  No marks from grinding the coating off and prep is easy.  Swish them in a little baking soda and water after coming out of the acid to neutralize.
Reply:One thing that was pointed out here is the difference in welding grade 5 vs grade 8 hardware. Grade 5 is quenched and tempered medium carbon steel, grade 8 quenched and tempered medium carbon alloy steel. In my limited experience, welding grade 8 hardware with standard MIG wire and actually getting it to stay where it's supposed to under load is a PITA. Grade 5 seems to be much better when welding is necessary.I'm with some of this, a heavy hex but works best, preferably black oxide. Welding 2 or 3 flats is all that's needed. If you are bearing directly on the nut rather than pulling it tight a tapped plate is probably a better choice. As for welding the but with the bolt in it being a rookie mistake, that's just BS. Welding it with a bolt in it and tightened down is often the only way to position it. Welded them both ways and haven't noticed a difference. Make sure its cool before pulling the bolt out.
Reply:you can make a thread chaser out of a bolt by cutting 4 grooves down the length of the threads using a cutoff wheel. Run it in and out several times until it loosens up, might not work if it's really bad. Also don't forget to use a jamb nut so the feet aren't wobbly.Last edited by MikeGyver; 05-21-2015 at 08:40 PM.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:What flavor of jamb nuts?  I like strawberry jam.Jerry  30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DI'm with some of this, a heavy hex but works best, preferably black oxide. Welding 2 or 3 flats is all that's needed. If you are bearing directly on the nut rather than pulling it tight a tapped plate is probably a better choice. As for welding the but with the bolt in it being a rookie mistake, that's just BS. Welding it with a bolt in it and tightened down is often the only way to position it. Welded them both ways and haven't noticed a difference. Make sure its cool before pulling the bolt out.
Reply:"Some people might suggest putting a bolt in the nut you are about to weld. Somehow to help it hold its form. do not do that. That is rookie advise."Not rookie advice at all. Always done it and it always worked. If it doesn't work for you you're doing something wrong. Just saying'.
Reply:It all depends on how you weld the nut on. I always keep a bolt in for mig and stick. I thread it all the way through, tack, then unthread until only 1 thread is in the hole to keep spatter from latching to the thread. As said before, only weld up to 3 sides. Never weld plated nuts, that just creates more of a problem when learning. Square nuts are awesome to weld. There are also weld nuts designed for doing just this. If you weld a nut solid with high heat, even a good tap might not save you.Last edited by Country Metals; 05-25-2015 at 08:41 AM.