Crushed Alum Irrigation Pipe

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Had a farmer just stop by and asked if I could repair some irrigation pipe.  What I found when I got there was  a 6" or 8" aluminum pipe about 20'-30' long with a 8' section in the middle smashed to about half of it's original diameter.  He wanted me to fix it.  Anyways, it apparently got run over by a sprayer or something.  It appears to be 3/16" or less in thickness.  He said it doesn't have to be perfect, but he would like it opened back up some.So far, the easiest repair solution I have come up with is to mount a plate with a winch at one end and string a cable through it.  Attach a "torpedo" to the end of the cable and draw it back through useing grease, heat, and a hammer to reshape the pipe.So first question is.....any other solutions?Second question is.....Any quick ideas for forming the "torpedo"?This guy has been a repeat customer and never complains about the bill or how I do a repair.  He even throws in a bonus from time to time.  He's the type of customer that will just drop something off and say "fix it" and leave the "how" up to me.  Then he shows up later with the checkbook.  If I tell him it ain't worth fixing,  he says ok and buys new.  I don't tell him that often, but I try to be honest.  I have a few customers like this and I do whatever I can to keep them happy.  So far it has worked out well for me.I would appreciate any suggestions you guys can offer for the repair.  I will try to take pics tommarrow when the pipe gets dropped off at my place.  I will also be pricing a new piece of pipe locally and comparing the cost to my estimate.
Reply:Had a buddy do this in his shop using a big steel pipe inside the aluminum pipe like a dolly. The hammer marks where he hit it (hot and cold) started cracks that developed later. Leaked like a sieve after a season. The guy who owned it was happy to get 1 year out of it, so it turned out OK.He started using heat but it made it too soft, so then he switched to working it cold. Both methods cracked.The stuff smashes and gets stressed, it's alooominum.We want to see something like this in the signature line:Lincoln Ranger 250Miller Auto-Darkening Elite HelmetLincoln 100Lincoln MigMiller Spectrum 375Craftsman 8 galllon gas powered compressorLongevity 200amp Tig Welder LT-200D
Reply:I've repaired some irrigation pipeback years ago. If it was squashed I just cut out the bad part and replaced it with new pipe. Never tried to open one back up. As far as making a "torpedo" if you could find the right dia. steel pipe you could orange peel one end, grind your welds smooth, attach an eye, and try to pull it through. I might make about three "torpedos". One about the original dia., one a little smaller, and one even smaller and start with the smallest. Try to open it up with three seperate passes instead of just one. I don't have a clue whether it will work or not.What about some kind of lubricant to help the "torpedo" go? Water, oil, grease?Last edited by Oldtimer; 05-26-2009 at 07:04 PM.
Reply:Oldtimer, that was my thought as well.  About three passes through it.  I would prefer to just cut off the bell ends and weld them to a new pipe, but I don't know if that would be cost effective or not till I price some pipe.  Will have to wait till morning to do that.
Reply:Hardwood torpedo?  I would make provision to retract it as well in the event you can't pull it clean through.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:If it get's stuck, I have a plas cutter and a tig welder to "extract" it.  I have considered a double ended torpedo though.  Just have to figure out how to make it quickly to keep costs down.  If the cost exceeds the cost of a pipe, then I have to turn the job down and don't make any $$$.  I am not greedy enough to charge more for a repair than what a new pipe would cost.  I would rather donate a little time, and make a little money, than have to turn down the job and not make a dime.  Been running a little short on funds lately...
Reply:I think you're going to have alot more money in labor hours trying to repair that 8 foot section than it would cost to buy a new piece of pipe and replace the bad section.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Cut and replace it, aluminum doesnt like to have things drawn through it.  Galls very easy and I cant imagine you will be able to get enough force on it without damaging the tube end or something.  With that much pressure one little weak spot in the tube and its liable to bend somewhere else.In the time you spend trying to make a torpedo and get setup, you could have it cut out and prepped to weld easily.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:if it is mashes flat then cut it out and replace it.   MOST irrigation pipe is going to be in the 12-14ga range.  the twist lock fittings on the ends will be thicker, but the pipe is gonna be thin.  A new stick of pipe is around $800 last time I priced it.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Cut and replace.Aluminum pipe smashed that much is either cracked, almost cracked, or will most likely crack if you try to re-expand it (with a mandrel/torpedo).If it was a cold worked pipe originally (4xxx or 5xxx, that sort of alloy) it is now most likely overworked.If it was a heat-treated alloy (6xxx or 7xxx, not likely), it's shot now.Soft, annealed ( O-condition) aluminum is kind of easy to shape and/or reshape.  Hardened aluminum (cold-worked or heat-treated) is not.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_Weldingif it is mashes flat then cut it out and replace it.   MOST irrigation pipe is going to be in the 12-14ga range.  the twist lock fittings on the ends will be thicker, but the pipe is gonna be thin.  A new stick of pipe is around $800 last time I priced it.
Reply:I appreciate the input guys.  As I said before, I would prefer replacing either the bad section or the whole pipe and welding the fittings on the end.  However, I am going to call to price some new pipe in the morning and spend a little time trying to fix the old one before shelling out the dough on new material.  Around here I have to buy a whole length, the supplier quit cutting stuff down about 2 yrs ago.  They will cut something, but you still have to buy the whole length.  The pipe doesn't have any kinks in it and it is not completely crushed.  About half of it is still round like it sunk into the dirt.  I have located a chunk of telephone pole I think I will give a quick go with.  A chainsaw ought to shape it pretty quickly.  The guy repeatedly said it doesn't have to be like new, he just wants it better than it is. So that's where I'm at right now, plan could change by morning.  It sounded like somebody else actually ran it over, so if I find out that he is just going to pass the bill on to somebody else....new pipe it is.  He is also dropping off several other routine repairs, new auger bearings and such, so I should come out pretty good for at least the next few days.
Reply:if it is only half flattened hook the pipe up, and tell him to use it if it is no leaks.  believe it or not the water pressure will push out a lot of that.  I've seen it done MANY times.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Maybe stuff both ends with sand and set off a cherry bomb in the middle.Or undent it with a slide hammer and weld shut the attaching holes.Then wrap the damage with fiberglass tape and some epoxy.
Reply:I think a piece of just cut wood from a tree-trimming company would be better than a telephone pole section, both because it's still green wood and because it's likely to have less dirt or nails which can ruin the chain. You might even get one the right size, or close to it, so have less work shaping it. Keep it short enough to reduce the effort needed to pull it through, and you can bore a hole through its center to stick a hooked rod through to pull from.I agree with the comments about cracking, and don't see how you could properly anneal it first, then re-harden later. Even welding in a new section will make it susceptible to bending or kinking there so he'll have to treat it more carefully than another one.
Reply:I just replaced a section of 6" irrigation pipe that a tree fell on! I was a 3 1/2' section that was damaged. Lucky for me a another farmer down the road a used piece available for a 12 pack of Coors Light.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:REPAIR DONE.  Made a wooden torpedo, drilled through the center, fished a chain through it and welded a plate to the end.  Hooked my winch to it, pulled a little, beat with a rubber mallet a little, pulled a little, etc.  The guy just happened to stop by as I was finishing up and was tickled pink.  Let me know he was bringing more stuff and his checkbook tomarrow.  I think I also converted a crack repair job to a building a flat bed job for his pickup.  I will have to get an estimate figured and a final answer on that tomarrow.  I took pics of the irrigation pipe after I verified the process would work, and then more pics of it done.  Will have to post them up later, I got errands to run now.
Reply:As it turns out, the pipe was crushed more than I remembered but I got it sorted out good enough.  Here is the pics. Attached Images
Reply:I forgot to say that the wood torpedo was about 1/4" smaller than the ID of the pipe.  I also soaked it with WD-40 before sticking it in.  The first two pics were taken after I had "straightened" about half of the crushed area.  I didn't want any evidence of failure so I waited to take the pics.
Reply:looks good to me.  MOST irrigation pipe is not heat treated.  I believe that it is 3003.  Atleast the last I bought was I believe...I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:I tried pricing new and got all kinds of strange looks.  They didn't even have it in the computer.  They said they would have to call the manufacturer and get back to me....
Reply:Hi all:  Newbi here.  How about 6 inch by about 3/32 inch stainess pipe that has been kinked by bending?  I am thinking about cutting on the bend line, putting in the press and trying to squash to approximate diameter before welding back together.  Any suggestions re success and which rod would you suggest?  Thanks for your help, Wayne.
Reply:Nice save boostin.  Good to see the wooden torpedo idea worked out too.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by wtruemanHi all:  Newbi here.  How about 6 inch by about 3/32 inch stainess pipe that has been kinked by bending?  I am thinking about cutting on the bend line, putting in the press and trying to squash to approximate diameter before welding back together.  Any suggestions re success and which rod would you suggest?  Thanks for your help, Wayne.
Reply:The local irrigation well dealer/driller used a device that would slide into the pipe, pull a lever & it would push the dent out.  Kind of like what a muffler shop uses to expand the end of the steel tubing.  The mandrel was shaped like a spade (was two of them to make a mandrel) & a wedge was pushed into it to expand it.  If you was doin a lot of this stuff, it might be worthwhile to look at one at an irrigation dealer's shop.  Although I like the wooden dowel idea too.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate BuildWow, I'm amazed at how well that worked!  MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:See, just goes to show ya, you don't know till you try.  Job took 3.5 hrs start to finish.  Since I work cheap, it cost the guy $100.  Prolly could have done it in half that time if I had a stronger winch or enough cable to use a snatch block.  Took less than an hour to shape that chunk of log I dug out of the weeds.
Reply:snOborder:  Thankyou for your reply.  Yes a 966 loader managed to catch it and bend around a cement piling.  There is no stopping those things, especially since the operator did not look down after hooking on (grin).  As for exhaust stack; I want to use it in my shop to exhaust the wood stove.  If I can keep it from leaking after welding, I will not care what it will look like because, I'll be probably dead before I or whoever needs to replace it, Wayne.
Reply:miht not be  abad idea to blacken that pipe with soot from your acetylene rig and then lightly heat using  alarge flame source ( weed burner) till the soot just burns off.this will anneal the aluminum and remove most of the stress.awesome work. "love it when a plan comes together (especially with the customer watching)"insert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:Ressurecting an old thread to add some info for anyone looking.From what I could find,BOSS pipe is a 3003 alloy.Pipe sold by RPH: 10" heavy wall (.094) is 5052, 8", 6", 5" and 4" are likely the same.Schumacher irrigation (deals in used pipe) tell me that most above ground main line made in the last 25-30 years is a 5000 series alloy, older stuff is 6000 series.Nice fix with the torpedo, I'm thinking about trying that on some pipe that came my way recently.
Reply:I wondered if you could fix the pipe with hydrostatic pressure. Cap the ends and fill completely with water and then use a test pump like they use to hydrostatic test tanks and put enough pressure to force the pipe back to round. That should be the place where the pressure would concentrate to bring the pipe back to round. They use hydro-forming to make frame components on cars/trucks now a days. A lot of pressure inside the pipe to force the pipe to deform to fit the mold.
Reply:Nice job again . I missed this thread, however, I opened up some smashed 6'' auger tubing by using a old time scissor jack. I cut some 4'' pipe the long way and tacked to the top and bottom of the jack. Made a long extension for the screw handle and it worked well. Took some time but turned out well. Attachment 1121261
Reply:Enjoyed reading this old thread.  It was nice to run across some posts from a couple guys who are now gone, but whom I respected.  We are diminished, as they say.
Reply:Good on you!GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:As far as I know, that tube is still in use.  I do lot's of work for that customer and haven't heard otherwise.My name's not Jim....
Reply:I fixed some 4" sprinkler line a few years back for a neighbor who had accumulated a pile of un-useable 40' sections over the years due to crushing, freeze splitting and punctures.   We decided that the best way to go was to cut out the crushed sections and splice other pieces in.  Out of the 15 40' sections he brought me I managed to get him 11 good ones back.
Reply:Around here used irrigation pipe is so cheap you can't afford to fix it.  $20-$70/30' stick, depending on the sale.  High priced corn put in a lot of pivots and the pipe stays piled on the corner of the field until the wind scatters it, then its off to the junk yard.  When pipe was more valuable there was a company that sold modified jacks like BD1 shows to help massage out kinks.But good idea on the wooden torpedo.  I will have to remember that one.
Reply:Looks like BD1 (lol...I just got that name!) and I found the same shed door with the combine's unload auger. I also used the modified scissors jack (dug one out of a dead car in the pasture for nothing), but I welded a large nut on turning mechanism. Now I can make a long extension for my 1/2" impact and spin it up and down at will from the end of the pipe. I've also used short rams in my portapower with home made ends with some success.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes