Low Boy Trailer

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I've been welding for about a year as a hobby.  I decided that I needed a trailer that could carry both a vehicle (for a 1967 Jeep I plan on restoring).  Looking around at some of the trailers I noticed that they were rather pricey and they were built from a lot of 1/8" angle.  I went about looking at plans online, and begrudgingly ordered professional plans as I wanted to make sure the trailer would actually hold the loads I wanted to pull.  I actually am probably spending more (not much) on steel and parts building my own trailer, but I'm enjoying the time to weld.   I've already made a few mistakes, including not-so-good beads.  I'm over-welding like heck, especially the cross-members to make up for the not-so-good beads.  The trailer is designed to hold 7,000 lbs, and has built in ramps.  I need to design a gate that can be removed in the rear, as my plans call for an open end.  Below are some pictures of my progress so far.
Reply:The plans called for cutting the outside angle at 45 degrees.  I now believe I should have coped it.  However, I wasn't about to pay for new 3x4 angle, so I squeezed in plates and tried to weld them in with a large bead.  I couldn't quite get the angle right on my gun, and they didn't turn out so pretty.
Reply:I'm still shaking my head on this one...The 16' 3x4 angle irons had a bow in them (imagine that), and I did not originally want to fight it, so I started cutting the cross members to fit the bow.  A welding teacher I actually ordered my trailer parts from, nicely told me that this plan was a really stupid idea and gave me some pointers on how to spread the main frame a part.  I ending up using my cutting torch on the two cross-members I had already put in and "spread" the main frame a apart by beating the other cross-member's into place.  I then welded another piece of angle to the cut cross members.  I also added two new cross members around the cross members I had to cut for strength--this may have been overkill but I wanted to be safe.  You can see in the bottom photo that there are more cross members to the left.
Reply:I'm a beginner, so any advice or tips you have are welcome.
Reply:Looks like a fun project.  This trailer will be a useful utility trailer for hauling an ATV or loading brush, but please don't come anywhere near 7000 gross.  The design is not heavy enough and it is never a good idea to patch cross members.   You need to remove and replace.  Good luck!Farmer2Hobart Champion EliteMiller S-32p 12Lincoln sp175tLincoln 225 ac tombstoneHarris oxy/aceteleneMakita grinders/chopsawHypertherm Powermax 45
Reply:Farmer2. Thanks. I put in 2 extra cross members in front of the two I had to cut. Shouldn't that be good to make up for it?Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Reply:Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by scolliflowerFarmer2. Thanks. I put in 2 extra cross members in front of the two I had to cut. Shouldn't that be good to make up for it?Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Reply:Hmm...the last 6000# low deck trailer I had a look at used 2x2 1/4" wall square tube for it's deck supports.  I think the 3x4 angle may not exactly hold the 7k you're looking for.  The split ones with the splice in them are definitely going to be weaker (I'd just buy new metal and replace them with un-spliced ones).  I'm a wee bit skeptical of the 7k load rating (as farmer said, even if the welds were perfect...and those welds are far from perfect).  I think you need a lot more welding practice before doing a trailer personally, however, you are definitely ambitious .I'd recommend putting the trailer on hold for a bit and spending a lot of time running practice welds flat, vertical up/down, overhead, etc... and getting your welds to the point where they're up to the task before you go back to it.  I think you'll find that if you do that you'll end up removing most of your existing welds and re-doing them after you're a bit better.  Also, you need to prep your metal...looks like you didn't grind the mill scale off of any of the areas you welded.There is ample support here for people learning to weld, I'd recommend asking for help on how to weld, practicing a lot (really...a lot) and then when you're welds are up to the task have a look at projects that will hold weight or move down the highway.--WintermuteLast edited by wintermute; 02-22-2014 at 01:15 PM."No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:I looked in the picts trying to see what machine you were using to do this. I was unable to spot it. All the welds I see look cold and unacceptable in my book for an over the road trailer. Big ugly overwelded welds don't make up for this. All it does is make the job of removing the bad welds that much harder to do.I'd have to agree with the others. The trailer looks borderline for 7K in my book. Especially for a trailer that will have 4 heavy point loads like you will have for a Jeep. I'll give you credit for going for professional plans. However even if the plans are rated for 7K, that's not the trailer design I'd opt for to haul a Jeep. I have access to a similar style 7K landscape trailer. I wouldn't want to use it to haul a jeep. Even the mid sized Kubota tractor we used to have was really iffy on it, even though in theory it was under the rated weight of the trailer.. I'd want a full heavy channel flat bed trailer at a minimum for something like this.I'd give you a "C" for effort at best. You picked a huge project to go after on this. A plus for going with a professional design. However your attention to detail seems a bit lacking. I don't see any signs of material prep. Fab skills seem to be greatly lacking. The attitude behind leaving the cut members to me is poor at best. You sound like you want a top notch project, yet you then go and do a hack stunt like that.Weld skills I'd rate a "D" at best from what I see. To be honest I wouldn't pass any of those welds to move on to the next level at the tech school. I'd send you back to keep working on welds. Poor welds need to be cut out and removed, not welded over. Again a poor attitude in my book, and unacceptable on a critical project. I'd definitely want to see more of the welds than what you showed. Lets see more of them including those you think are the worst.Overall I'd rate the project as a "fail" so far to be blunt. Trailers for on road use are not meant to be "learning" projects. I'd be more forgiving if the project wasn't as critical and safety related. Honestly I tried to be generous with my assessment and give you the benefit of the doubt. I have a few other thoughts, but I'll save those until I see more picts of welds and have an idea what unit you are using to try and do these welds..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:OHHHH my god you might as well have taken a video of you peeing on a SA200 as to ask a question about how to build a trailer. Def the wrong place to ask a question people around here are relentless when it comes to people who want to build there own trailer. Do your self a favor and get them to lock this post before you get flamed and never ask another welding related question....Vantage 300 kubota ,miller 304 xmt ,lincoln ln 25 pro , ranger 305 G, plenty of other tools of the trade to make the sparks fly.
Reply:Yeah...it stings a little but I learn with the more I read. I got the plans from Master Designs. In response to grinding off mill scale. I thought it wasn't necessary for strength...I plan on grinding and Sanding before I paint. Also I've been welding a year so I know my welds are really ugly...but I'm getting better as I go on projects.  I'm concerned with the welds being safe rather than pretty-like good penetration and the bead large enough. In your opinion are these beads safe and what tips do you have.Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Reply:Simple answer is no.  Those beads are not safe.  Some are cold, some have massive undercut, most clearly lack penetration.  Grinding off mill scale and getting your weld into good clean metal is standard practice for a reason, it's just necessary in order to ensure the weld can penetrate properly and not have contamination and porosity in it.  As a general rule, an ugly weld is a weak weld. A pretty weld isn't necessarily a good weld though.  People here are pretty hard on folks making/modifying trailers, however, you'll also notice that that goes hand in hand with the quality of the welds/design shown and the experience of the welder.  I doubt anyone would give Zapster crap about his welds on a trailer, but that's because he is a damn good welder and his welds are very high quality.  Simply put, you need alot more practice and experience before I'd think you're ready to complete this project.  Always prep your weld area, dirty scaled metal will pretty much ensure a bad weld.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Proper prep really makes the project go a whole lot smoother vs. just butting some steel pieces up to each other and welding away.   Overwelding bad welds isn't going to work too good, either. It's just covering up bad work, not reinforcing it.Hobart Stickmate LX235AC/160DCRanger 305GVictor 315 O/A rigHope to acquire in the next couple of years: Hypertherm PM45 and Dynasty 200DX
Reply:I knew some welds were undercut. How do you avoid this? Also how can I tell the welds are cold?Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by scolliflowerI'm a beginner, so any advice or tips you have are welcome.
Reply:If you are going to run a top angle for a truss type frame you are more than strong enough in the main frame area, there are a few tricks I can give you to make it better than most plans I've seen. The cross members are going to be marginal because a car has the weight concentrated in the front wheels putting the majority of the weight in a small area. There are a number of things you can do to help increase the strength in that area without redoing the whole trailer. It will help also if you use 2x8 or larger lumber for the floor. I will be happy to help you through your project and have some 200 trailers that I have designed and built under my belt so I have good experience to back me up. PM me if you want to talk and I'll give you my phone #.
Reply:Docwelder...the splice welds or all look questionable? I'm cringing to hear...Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Reply:no flaming from me scolliflower. they just look uneven with a lack of consistent penetration also with that angle insert splice and edge weld i'm not sure if it's up to full strength of the cut piece.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Can you weld thru scale? Yes with enough power. You haven't told us what you used to do this with yet. If we are talking a 110v mig, then I'd really want to see the mill scale removed. You would want every bit of power available, and not want to loose power to trying to burn thru mill scale. If we are talking 230v machines, then you have the power to burn thru the scale, but I don't see that in the picts.Tell us what machine you used, what the wire size was, Machine settings on voltage and wire speed etc. Same goes for whether the welds are "good" or not. Beads  that I see all look cold and I see a lot of roll on some. That can come from several things. 110v migs are notorious for making cold beads that look "pretty". However with limited input available you have to maximize what you have to work with. Are you on at least a 20 amp dedicated circuit? if not, strike one, you lost power. Are you using an extension cord? If so what gauge and how long? Chances are if yes to the question on an extension cord, strike 2, you lost power. What settings are you running, wire size, voltage  wire speed? You want to be in the optimum range... if not, another strike, you lost power. How far from the work are you with the gun? Even with the correct settings if you are too far away, the machine will weld cold. Another strike. Push vs pull? While in theory dragging the weld is supposed to increase penetration, when you are severely limited in output power dragging will tend to cause the bead to pile up and suck out power that could be used for penetration... yep another strike... Then we get to things like duty cycle... exceed the duty cycle on small units, and weld quality usually drops off noticeably. That's often because the machines have caps in them that help to store up "extra " power and feed it into the system while welding, basically giving you a "boost" of input power. But when you have drained the "tank" all you get is a trickle vs full flow of power... yep there is another strike... How many strikes do you have against you? You already have one most likely for mill scale.Most of the same things apply when you use a 230v machine as well. However you typically start out with more available power. This allows you to over come many issues. If you run an extension cord, you loose less voltage with the same wire gauge so it's not as bad. If you need to hold the gun farther away, you compensate by turning up your power. Same goes if you choose bigger wire or any number of other problems listed above.As far as how "good" those welds are, it's really hard to know. I'd want to see most of them. Remember if you have a poor weld that isn't fused well to the base material, and you cover it with a 2nd weld, you are still relying on that 1st poor weld to bond to the steel. However, now it's tough to rate the 1st weld because you hid it. I'll admit there are plenty of really poor welds on some commercial trailers I've looked at. However many are done with pretty decent sized machines. In general, given 2 identically looking welds, I'd pick the one made with a 230v unit as stronger than a 110v one. Chances are just higher that even if it is piled up, there may have been more power to burn in to the base material. The only real way to tell is to do destructive testing.Then there's always the question of how many "poor" welds there are. One mediocre weld may not end the world. Chances are if it's not a super critical one, the other welds may pick up the slack some what. However the more questionable welds there are, the greater and greater the strain on each weld becomes. At some point you will exceed the limit.When guys learn they often do bend tests. These tests tell you thru destructive testing how well you did. You want to get to the point where all the welds you make pas those tests. Guys who must do critical welds on things like pipelines aircraft and cranes often have every weld tested by nondestructive testing methods so the company knows for sure all the welds meet minimum standards. if not, guess what? They grind them out and redo it, or junk the part. Guys that fail regularly don't stay employed.I dislike making strength guesses with just picts. I can't see everything well, and I can't see all the joints. When in doubt I'd be safe and say to redo them. I've seen the results of when things come loose on the highway and it's not pretty. To me, there is nothing in this world for fun worth a human life. Being "cheap" can get very expensive when some one is dead no matter what the reason..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:i hope you're not using a 110 mig to build that trailer? i been welding a long time and consider myself better than average but i would think long and hard before using my sp125 to build one and there would be more than a few sleepless night's after it rolled out the door.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:The OP hasn't said yet what he's using. I only used that as an example why we need to know all the info when looking at things like this..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If you're anywhere in Western Washington? Bring that puppy to me, and let me weld it up for you!Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:His welds may not be code per se, although they are better than most welds on some vehicles that I seen stand up to some hard abuseMillermatic 211Miller Syncrowave 350lx with cooler and tigrunner Thermal Dynamics cutmaster 811955 National Cylinder Gas O/A setup with original patina
Reply:I'm running a dedicated 220v 40 amp circuit, my welder is a 30 amp MIG. I'm running CO2/Argon. It is an Eastwood brand.Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using TapatalkWhat is the best way to avoid undercuts? And I know if you look at the back you can identify good penetration by the heat markings.Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Reply:I would take welderj up on his offer .   Reinforcing where the load sits will go a long way.  I actually think your welds are better than some of the trailers I see at home depot.  I'm more worried about the design.   If your hauling a jeep, that means this trailer will spend a lot of time off-road.  Therefore it will be subject to a lot more flex than the typical car trailer.  Make sure you run your tongue design passed our experts before you build it.Farmer2Last edited by farmer2; 02-22-2014 at 05:42 PM.Hobart Champion EliteMiller S-32p 12Lincoln sp175tLincoln 225 ac tombstoneHarris oxy/aceteleneMakita grinders/chopsawHypertherm Powermax 45
Reply:Avoiding undercut depends on the type of weld you are doing.  It's a combination of machine settings, gun angle, gun movement, etc...  heat coloring on the backside doesn't actually denote good penetration all it really shows is heat input. You can have no root penetration but definite heat marking on the backside of a weld.  One more time, you need practice, practice, and more practice.  Then test your welds (cut them apart and examine the weld and root penetration, look for porosity, etc...  Once you have enough practice you'll start to realize how bad your welds were and why you were told to practice.  I'd recommend you go through at least a couple of 20lb spools practicing...--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Look at farmersamm's thread about making the same gvw trailer as you are attempting http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=346471   Look at the differences in fabrication techniques and materials. Not trying to bust your stones but there is no way I would trust your trailer with 7000 lbs. maybe you could hook up with someone local to you on here to help you outLast edited by Firemanmike69; 02-22-2014 at 07:40 PM.
Reply:Hey Scol, you can also download a welding calculator to your phone. Miller has one and Lincoln just came out with theirs. Just to give you an idea for your settings. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLincoln Pro Mig 180HF Stick/Tig Inverter WelderLincoln AC225s
Reply:Undercutting comes from removing material and not filling it back in. As mentioned it's caused by a number of things including machine settings and gun angle. The real key to avoiding undercut is learning to read the puddle. When you can do that, you watch the sides melt, then hold the side until it fills back in, assuming the settings are correct. learning to read the puddle is a major step to learning to weld correctly. If you can not read the puddle, you have no business welding up something like this from my stand point. You just do not have the required skills yet. The only way I'd see being able to do this without being able to read the puddle is if you could manage to rotate the project and possibly be able to do all the welds in the flat position to give you the best chance at decent welds.Undercutting is a major defect in thin material like this. You have caused 2 things. #1 you weaken the base material by making it thinner. #2 you create places at stressed joints where the stresses can concentrate.Also as mentioned the back side of the weld does not show penetration. I can create the same results with just a torch and no weld. All it shows is heat. The fact you are using a 230v machine is useful. Not knowing the wire size and settings is still a pain, but I don't have the listed suggested settings for that machine anyways. Taking a look at the few welds you posted though, I'd want to go up in voltage, possibly keeping the wire speed the same or maybe even going a tad lower. I'd want to see how the beads washed out when I made the changes. I regularly see guys turn down a mig too low when they try to do vertical welds. They think less heat makes it easier. It doesn't. You need that heat to get the machine to wash in the welds properly..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If you have access to a compact bender you can do some testing of your welds. A great confidence builder if nothing else.Here is a side bend vertical up hill with Mig I did. And a picture of bending coupons in a compact bender. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:My head hurts, and all I did was look at the pictures... ugh. I'll leave this one to you guys to hash out.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerMy head hurts, and all I did was look at the pictures... ugh. I'll leave this one to you guys to hash out.
Reply:When you are you going to get that new helmet dude?    I believe you now when you said you couldn't see anymore, that horizontal weave bead you are trying to pass off as a vertical uphill is marginal at best.
Reply:Originally Posted by ExcaliburWhen you are you going to get that new helmet dude?    I believe you now when you said you couldn't see anymore, that horizontal weave bead you are trying to pass off as a vertical uphill is marginal at best.
Reply:Originally Posted by scolliflowerI've been welding for about a year as a hobby.  I decided that I needed a trailer that could carry both a vehicle (for a 1967 Jeep I plan on restoring).  Looking around at some of the trailers I noticed that they were rather pricey and they were built from a lot of 1/8" angle.  I went about looking at plans online, and begrudgingly ordered professional plans as I wanted to make sure the trailer would actually hold the loads I wanted to pull.  I actually am probably spending more (not much) on steel and parts building my own trailer, but I'm enjoying the time to weld.   I've already made a few mistakes, including not-so-good beads.  I'm over-welding like heck, especially the cross-members to make up for the not-so-good beads.  The trailer is designed to hold 7,000 lbs, and has built in ramps.  I need to design a gate that can be removed in the rear, as my plans call for an open end.  Below are some pictures of my progress so far.Attachment 628901Attachment 628911Attachment 628921Attachment 628931Attachment 628941
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPIs this more gooder?
Reply:As much as these guys, and myself want to bash this build, I fully admit that this is better then brand new trailers that "claim" to be rated 10 000 pounds, the welds and designs on those are scary. Them china imported ones are crazy.  Put the full 10k on it, and that is 10k times more dangerous then this.Plus, when you build your own, you can build it to how you want. Not some cookie cutter one.
Reply:I fully admit that this is better then brand new trailers that "claim" to be rated 10 000 pounds,
Reply:Originally Posted by JD955SCWhen you think about how those el cheapo store brought trailers sell- everybody snaps them up...it's scary isn't it? We lucked out when we brought our 18ft equipment hauling trailer...we brought a trailer that had been costumed designed to haul a small steamroller for a local paving company, but was not quite big enough for them so they sold it practically new. It is built stout with good construction and quality materials so it does everything we need without worry. I was looking at trailers today (need one to haul my welder and tools and such) and the trailers at the dealer looked sorry. $4500 for an 18ft trailer that looked like it would come apart as soon as you loaded it up...
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPIf you have access to a compact bender you can do some testing of your welds. A great confidence builder if nothing else.Here is a side bend vertical up hill with Mig I did. And a picture of bending coupons in a compact bender.
Reply:Originally Posted by Firemanmike69Look at farmersamm's thread about making the same gvw trailer as you are attempting http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=346471   Look at the differences in fabrication techniques and materials. Not trying to bust your stones but there is no way I would trust your trailer with 7000 lbs. maybe you could hook up with someone local to you on here to help you out
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjWhat size Ellis saw is that? I have the 1600 I think.
Reply:Originally Posted by ExcaliburIm glad to see you finally gave up that $0.50 for a new cover lens.   That weld will be categorized as desirable.
Reply:Its not all that bad, grind off millscale and I hope you are running Lincoln. L-56 bevel. splices and weld all around for full pen weld. If you can't weld out of position, turn the pieces and position the work. Where the spring hangers are you can cover plate or use a angle to increase the spring bearing. area.The same where the wheel sits.
Reply:If it helps your confidence........I hauled 7400 lbs of I beam and sq tube + two of my personal shop machines and misc tools on a trailer that was built out of far thinner material and had MUCH worse looking welding on it, down a goat track pos highway 79 miles wondering at what point I was going to be testing my insurance.  Good solid materials and welds made with not scardy cat heat can do a lot...remember ugly welds hold just as much...long as they are WELDS.  I will not get into ins and outs of trailer fab as their are plenty of folks on here who can steer you right.  Just build your trailer frame as to break your axles and you will not go wrong.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjYou should be careful about recommending samm's trailer as a good example for someone else to follow. He has a serious design flaw in his main frame that will lead to stress cracks down the road. I know this because I made the same mistake he is, twice, and had problems both times. I am going to post about this on his thread but don't have a pic yet to show what I'm talking about. I went through all my pics at home today looking for one but have none showing a detail of the problem. I'll have to find a deck over trailer to get some pics of, then I will do a post on it. Fancy welds don't make a good trailer if the design is flawed to start with. If this poster takes good advice and finishes his trailer properly he will have a stronger trailer than farmersamm's when done.
Reply:Eastwood offers a 90 amp, 135 amp, & 175 amp, as well as a 200 amp dual process inverter. http://www.eastwood.com/welders/mig-welders.htmlI would take up welderj's offer. Come to Weld-O-Rama if you are in SoCal. City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Update?