Farm equipment emergency.

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Got a call from my friend I'm cutting hay with. Apparently the cutter snapped a shaft. "Can you weld it back?" What do yall think?  I haven't seen it yet. Not sure how I'd keep it true. And getting it beveled down looks challenging. - Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:That looks tough. Is that a conditioning roll on a hay conditioner?SA-250 TMDSquarewave 200Thunderbolt AC/DC1951 G.E. welder
Reply:I'm gonna say no you can't, it looks like where you'd have to weld is down inside that flywheel or pulley that the shaft is broken off in.
Reply:Pretty hard to repair but you need to figure why it broke. It sheared right off like it was done in an ironworker. Was something jammed or a bearing seized?
Reply:Looks like fatigue. Out of balance / misaligned, excessive torque or a combo. if you do manage to make it whole again it won't last long.
Reply:Yes it's fixable if you have a way to drill an tap the center of both pieces Then use a Dayton 3/4" wheel stud as a threaded pin.  then grinding a groove around the shaft and welding both pieces together. As far as just butting the 2 halves together and welding, I wouldn't think it would last very long. The end of the shaft might be hardened.________________________________Everlast PA140STEverlast PowerPlasma 50And no you can't Borrow them
Reply:That looks to be the sickle drive and that pulley should have an offset shaft in it to run the sickle. The most common cause for that break is worn and loose parts causing hammering. I'll bet you find a loose bearing or ball joint between there and the sickle.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I am what exactly we are looking at. If it is on a conditioner roller there is a chance that is a short stub that could easily be unbolted from the roller, slid out of the bearing, then put in a lathe and fixed. Hard to know though with those close up pictures.SA-250 TMDSquarewave 200Thunderbolt AC/DC1951 G.E. welder
Reply:I am what exactly we are looking at. If it is on a conditioner roller there is a chance that is a short stub that could easily be unbolted from the roller, slid out of the bearing, then put in a lathe and fixed. Hard to know though with those close up pictures. One good bet is you are going to need your umbrella to fix. Broken down in the hay field....the rain is coming!SA-250 TMDSquarewave 200Thunderbolt AC/DC1951 G.E. welder
Reply:I'm with pipeliner, it looks like fatigue."When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".  In this case, you will have to work 10 times harder than necessary to fix that with a welder.  That is a lathe job.  I'm guessing that is a stub shaft in a conditioning roll.  Actually, most of the work is just mechanic.  The effort is getting everything apart, and then back together after repairing the shaft.
Reply:I would advise against it. Reason being for that shaft to repaired properly you need it to run true and checked with dial gauges. There was load on that shaft for it to break a miss aligned or badly running out repair could actually make it worse and fail again.Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:So on a typical Friday night, any pictures of a busted part are going to draw a response. 50% are drunk enough to say, "Hell yea, I can weld anything back together." and the other 50% say, " F... it, I don't feel like welding anything back together until Monday."250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I haven't seen it in person. And don't know what part it is on, the bar or the conditioner. He asked if I could fix it and before even seeing it I told him it would be temporary if I could… After posting the thread and looking at the pics more I concluded as well that it was a lathe job too. But of course we are behind and the weather is not helping us… Looks like we will be waiting on a new shaft! oh well its always good to see some conversation.- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:Usually on Friday or sat or sunday is when you have to try the impossible when parts are not available pining the two halves can work. at this point what are you outMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:W/o seeing the other side of the pulley, I'll bet there is a nut on that end to pull the chamfer on the shaft into the chamfer in the pulley. My call is you might be able to fix it w/ the aid of a lathe, but I'd damned sure have a new shaft on the way.                                                 MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I bet Farmer Samm can figure out a fix..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI bet Farmer Samm can figure out a fix.
Reply:Originally Posted by camjeep3I haven't seen it in person. And don't know what part it is on, the bar or the conditioner. He asked if I could fix it and before even seeing it I told him it would be temporary if I could… After posting the thread and looking at the pics more I concluded as well that it was a lathe job too. But of course we are behind and the weather is not helping us… Looks like we will be waiting on a new shaft! oh well its always good to see some conversation.
Reply:every farm repair is an emergency, lol. speed/rpms/weightsis a big factor, cuz odds are it aint going to be true.  it might rattle everything to death or tear everything else up
Reply:camjeep3Toast . . .The color - and shear-plane - tell the tale.Anything ferrous will fuse when welded - its future service-life is dependent upon it 'pre-weld' metallurgical conditioning - and your 'shear condition' - does not look weld friendly.Save time and effort - by spend the 'little-money' - and buy a replacement part.Opus
Reply:When minutes count new parts are only days away...GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Gravel-I think you nailed it with that comment! I am still guessing on the short shaft with a flange right behind that bearing. I am guessing you could make a flange and weld it on probably a spindle laying around in the floor of your local welding shop if you have one around. At worst case you might have to turn a new shaft and make a flange. Farming around here used to always be a get it done as cheaply as possible right now ordeal. There was never much effort lost if you could reproduce a part with 20 hours labor. That is what we did a lot. Cobble something together that did actually work properly Friday, Friday night, Saturday, and Saturday night, and bale MOST of Sunday until the rain got there. The part would be at the dealer at 10AM Monday and most of your hay was baled and your repair worked and you have a shiny new part rusting in the back of the shop.SA-250 TMDSquarewave 200Thunderbolt AC/DC1951 G.E. welder
Reply:I would guess that the replacement part from the dealer is a new lower fixed roller and is worth a couple of times what the haybine is worth if it is still available. I've never seen one with a removable stub shaft except with a torch or a big lathe. I fixed one for myself once(different brand) but it was a long repair and if I'd had to pay someone to do it I would have scrapped the haybine.  On mine I took the roller out, cut out the single mounting  plate from the roller, machined up a longer shaft, put 2 plates with the shaft installed on them drive fit into the roller, cut some holes in the roller to weld the back plate to the roller in a few places and welded in the outside plate like the original, and reassembled. It still is working but I don't use it much anymore.    Judging by what I can see in the picture of the haybines condition, which isn't much, even if you fix it he might want to be looking for a replacement haybine. It is an interesting job...enjoy.---Meltedmetal
Reply:Today's parts are CRAZY ! On the older equipment it is sometimes easier to scrap it and replace with another.Amazing, nice beautiful day and the equipment breaks ; heavy snow coming down hard with more on the way and the plow breaks. Go figure .
Reply:It seems like the machine is toast. Thats too bad, This is a new thing for us this year and we were trying to do it as cheap as possible… It actually cut real nice… Just not enough I guess.- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.comOriginally Posted by camjeep3It seems like the machine is toast. Thats too bad, This is a new thing for us this year and we were trying to do it as cheap as possible… It actually cut real nice… Just not enough I guess.
Reply:my friend works at the local dealer, they are pretty good about finding used parts… I will let them handle it.- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:Is it the lower roller or just a shaft?---Meltedmetal
Reply:We do most of our work with older equipment. I've got in the habit of watching the farm auctions for cheap, rough versions of what we run for parts. What was once a cow pasture is starting to look like a wrecking yard, but I have 2 neighbors into scrapping so sometimes I can trade the carcasses for parts that they have dragged in. Got an almost new set of harrows from a set with a broken frame that way. Maybe this machine becomes the parts machine if you find a better one, or possibly it could still be salvaged with parts from a cheaper one.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:First thing to do is take it all apart and have a better look.
Reply:Yea, if that's just a stub shaft into a larger roller, it might not be that big of a deal to have a new shaft machined on a lathe. I can't see a welded shaft lasting in that situation.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronYea, if that's just a stub shaft into a larger roller, it might not be that big of a deal to have a new shaft machined on a lathe. I can't see a welded shaft lasting in that situation.
Reply:I've never seen a sickle drive on the end of a conditioner roller. That should be a short stub shaft with 2 bearings in the machine frame. It should have a keyway in the pulley. Be sure to check for loose bearings in the pitman arm and loose ball joints on the sickle.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:That is too bad. Hopefully you will find another one to replace it. It is amazing how much has changed in the ten years. Farm equipment is getting to be as short lived and dispensable as all the household stuff. Maybe in another ten years we will be buying Deere balers right alongside the lawn mowers at Lowe's. -Meltedmetal-You may be right about there not being a flange there. I was kind of thinking the 1219 Deere's were that way, but that was a long time ago when we got rid of one of those. Been pulling impeller conditioners for years now. It is few and far between around here that you even see a conditioner.SA-250 TMDSquarewave 200Thunderbolt AC/DC1951 G.E. welder
Reply:Originally Posted by BlockerT -Meltedmetal-You may be right about there not being a flange there. I was kind of thinking the 1219 Deere's were that way, but that was a long time ago when we got rid of one of those. Been pulling impeller conditioners for years now. It is few and far between around here that you even see a conditioner.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmFor my customers I would have that fixed yet tonight.  Or at least by morning.  Only one condition.  They pull the part and bring it to me.  If I gotta work late to keep them going, they gotta work late too.  Plus, they should be more familiar with their equipment than I am.That's what I got a mill and lathe for.  No waiting on the machine shop to get stuff done.
Reply:I remember when I was 10 cutting hay with a Deere 1520 tractor and 1219 mower conditioner (sickle type mower conditioner for those unfamiliar) cutting about 6' tall Johnson grass. I had to stand up on the transmission to see the mower at all. You would an ant hill in that tall stuff and it would pull grass and on the sickle guards and keep any grass from being cut there. Sometimes you could back up and it would come out but most times you had to get the stick out. None of that anymore thank goodness.SA-250 TMDSquarewave 200Thunderbolt AC/DC1951 G.E. welder