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Hey guys, so I rented a little 110V Lincoln 125 (that's all they had) at Home Depot this morning. I got it home and plugged it in with two extension cords (regular gauge, nothing special) and turned it on. Tried to tack some 1/2" rebar to 1/4" plate and it just made a mess. No penetration at all and just piled up the wire really. The rebar would stick pretty well to the plate but a swift kick would break it right off if that makes sense. It also sounded like it was pulsing. I had it set on 4 (the highest voltage tap) and 3 (wire speed).So you guys know the scenario, I'm doing a steel landscape edging project and thought if I could just get some good tacks that's all I'd need. It is going in the ground after all. Anyways, I'm guessing the issue lies in using the two extension cords. The welders (yes, I tried two different ones as the first was in bad shape too) were no beauties... the first one had a broken ground clamp. The SECOND one had no ground pin on the tail, the gun had been cut and flipped around (so the trigger was backwards and in the palm of your hand basically) and the ground clamp was just a bunch of frayed copper crudely folded and bent around the clamp tips. What do you guys think?? They both acted the exact same way so I'm now thinking it was a power situation. Help!!
Reply:How long were the extension cords? It sounds like the whole project was doomed before it even started. I at least would have told them to fix the machines before I rented them. Rent a small gas powered welder and stick weld your pieces. Way less headaches.
Reply:110v is not ideal for 1/2", more suited to 12ga, especially with two extension cords. Try per-heating the rebar and the plate first, see if that works.   GarLincoln Electric, Power MIG 256Hypertherm Powermax 45 Miller Dynasty 280DXSmith O/A torchGenesis of a welding table
Reply:The gauge of the cords should be indented in them. They can run from 16 gauge to 12."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:So many possible issues here. You are right the extension cords are probably at least part of your problem. Small 110v machines are power limited to begin with. Long extension cords probably plugged into 15 amp circuits, simply reduce the power available to work with. 2nd thing is even under the best conditions, those machines aren't really rated to weld material that thick. The heavy mass will suck heat away making it hard to get good fusion to the base material. #3 is that rebar often doesn't weld well even under the best conditions. Rebar is often remelted scrap or re rolled rails, meaning there is a good possibility it may be high carbon. The welds are brittle and can simply snap. I've seen bar that was hard in places and soft in others. It's interesting to cut with a bar cutter. Some spots you almost have to jump on the bar cutter, others the cutter almost drops thru the stock under it's own weight. I've had some rebar that welded reasonably well, while other stuff you'll never get welds that hold well at all. It gets even worse if you quench the welds.As mentioned stick would be your best choice, but that still isn't a guarantee it will work. My regular rental place rents the small Honda powered stick machines that do a decent job..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWSo many possible issues here. You are right the extension cords are probably at least part of your problem. Small 110v machines are power limited to begin with. Long extension cords probably plugged into 15 amp circuits, simply reduce the power available to work with. 2nd thing is even under the best conditions, those machines aren't really rated to weld material that thick. The heavy mass will suck heat away making it hard to get good fusion to the base material. #3 is that rebar often doesn't weld well even under the best conditions. Rebar is often remelted scrap or re rolled rails, meaning there is a good possibility it may be high carbon. The welds are brittle and can simply snap. I've seen bar that was hard in places and soft in others. It's interesting to cut with a bar cutter. Some spots you almost have to jump on the bar cutter, others the cutter almost drops thru the stock under it's own weight. I've had some rebar that welded reasonably well, while other stuff you'll never get welds that hold well at all. It gets even worse if you quench the welds.As mentioned stick would be your best choice, but that still isn't a guarantee it will work. My regular rental place rents the small Honda powered stick machines that do a decent job.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveHow long were the extension cords? It sounds like the whole project was doomed before it even started. I at least would have told them to fix the machines before I rented them. Rent a small gas powered welder and stick weld your pieces. Way less headaches.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyThe gauge of the cords should be indented in them. They can run from 16 gauge to 12.
Reply:Originally Posted by jransomGreat advice except that I don't have any experience with stick welding really.
Reply:Too much voltage drop and too little of a machine....And you can't SMAWO/A weld it ??....Old SchoolBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by jransomThanks DSW! Every time I read your name I think of the "shoe" warehouse! They should be paying you for marketing!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by jransomI'm guessing they are closer to 16g. I can't see them from where I am to know for sure but that's an educated guess.
Reply:What gauge were the extentions 16 Ill bet.There are 3 225 amp welders on craigslist here for 50 bucks each.No 240 outlet,have one put in..Wire welding is NOT easy in spite of all the BS about how easy wire welding is.
Reply:In addition to what was said above, you also had the wire feed setting at 3, which is probably about right for doing 20 gauge automotive sheet metal replacement. When you get the Hobart, I'd set the machine to the highest settings on the door chart for the wire you're using and try that. I'm assuming that machine will take 0.035" wire, you could just crank the wire speed almost to the max then tune the voltage until you get a decent bead. I have limited experience using self shielding flux core, but if you can't stick weld it, I wonder if using that wire would help get better penetration on the rebar.
Reply:You mentioned you "rented" a welder from Home Crepot. That leads me to guess/assume it is a gassless (flux core) welder, and not a gas (mig) welder. If so, you are gonna have a real problem getting it to stick to rebar. Rebar is best welded with a low hydrogen electrode, being either mig (ER70S-6 hardwire with C25 shielding gas), or 7018 stick rod. I used to production weld rebar for the steel mills. Since there was no specification, other that they can't break apart, I tried using everything I had sitting around. The 7018 would be my first choice.Also, as said above, that is a really small welder for the job."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:I take it you rented the machine because you didn't have an extension cord for 230 to power your Hobart machine?Perfect opportunity to use this as an excuse to make one. 8 AWG is sufficient for most light duty applications. A trip to take the little welder back, and to the electrical department will get you everything you need. Of course, if you had to get 100+' away, that won't be cheap. I have run the Thermal Arc inverters off three/four 50' cords joined together when working for a former employer. It was the only way to get power to the job until they finally bought a little generator.Good luck with it.Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Originally Posted by jransomHey guys, so I rented a little 110V Lincoln 125 (that's all they had) at Home Depot this morning. I got it home and plugged it in with two extension cords (regular gauge, nothing special) and turned it on. Tried to tack some 1/2" rebar to 1/4" plate and it just made a mess. No penetration at all and just piled up the wire really. The rebar would stick pretty well to the plate but a swift kick would break it right off if that makes sense. It also sounded like it was pulsing. I had it set on 4 (the highest voltage tap) and 3 (wire speed).So you guys know the scenario, I'm doing a steel landscape edging project and thought if I could just get some good tacks that's all I'd need. It is going in the ground after all. Anyways, I'm guessing the issue lies in using the two extension cords. The welders (yes, I tried two different ones as the first was in bad shape too) were no beauties... the first one had a broken ground clamp. The SECOND one had no ground pin on the tail, the gun had been cut and flipped around (so the trigger was backwards and in the palm of your hand basically) and the ground clamp was just a bunch of frayed copper crudely folded and bent around the clamp tips. What do you guys think?? They both acted the exact same way so I'm now thinking it was a power situation. Help!!
Reply:Thanks for all the help guys.  Sorry,  I should have said that I was using .035 fluxcore. I have welded the same rebar to the same 1/4" material in the past but it was with a larger machine on a heavier extension cord. I also made some table legs and plant stands with welded rebar and have never had an issue.  I'm sure the structural integrity of the things I've made may have been lacking but I took a 4lb sledge to one of them once and it just laughed at me.Thanks again guys for all the input. While that 125 machine is a capable little machine,  I think the material is just simply outside its range. I'll report back this afternoon hopefully with results using my Hobart with a better extension cord on 115v.
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelderobviously the rental place does not maintain it's equipment. i have the same machine and it performed flawlessly for years. you don't mention anything about shielding gas. were you using flux cored or solid wire.
Reply:Originally Posted by jransomThanks for all the help guys.  Sorry,  I should have said that I was using .035 fluxcore. I have welded the same rebar to the same 1/4" material in the past but it was with a larger machine on a heavier extension cord. I also made some table legs and plant stands with welded rebar and have never had an issue.  I'm sure the structural integrity of the things I've made may have been lacking but I took a 4lb sledge to one of them once and it just laughed at me.Thanks again guys for all the input. While that 125 machine is a capable little machine,  I think the material is just simply outside its range. I'll report back this afternoon hopefully with results using my Hobart with a better extension cord on 115v.
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbOk why would you rent a 115volt machine when you already have a 115 volt machine? and probably in better condition....
Reply:Alright, got all the steel in the ground and welded together. Would you guys oil it or wipe it down with linseed oil or something else to make it last as long as possible? It's 1/8" hotrolled steel. I'm in southern California and we don't get a ton of rain, plus the soil around it drains very quickly.
Reply:Yeah all that liquid sunshine we have been getting can still be bad on the metal ...you said it was landscape edging ...what is that exactlyBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Here's a picture... Attached Images
Reply:You gonna pour that or something ...I would have painted it cause it's gonna rustBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old TruckI agree. Oil is not going to last long. Pavers or concrete, you'll have rust stains on the surface in under a year..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Yeah, I know. I did it in the back yard  as well about a year ago and it just has a little surface rust at this point, surprisingly. I figured it would have been a little more rusted by now.That's Road Base in it currently and it's getting pavers and decomposed granite installed inside it  today. I want the rust. I know it will continue to rust, just didn't know if there was a product that would help it last a little longer.
Reply:people are going to trip over that  1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Originally Posted by Oscarpeople are going to trip over that
Reply:It's going to be fine, it probably won't ever rain again in California, never. Just don't water the lawn (is that even still allowed?)SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Ha ha, you guys are all right! I just tripped and broke my face off. Kidding. Yeah, seems like we're never getting more rain. Certainly not enough to get out of this drought. Good thing all the grass is gone already!