Help me to help welders in 5 minutes !

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Hi everybody,As I explained in the "introduce yourself" section, i'm not a welder but a welder's son studying entrepreneurship in college.As my dad was always pissed off when it came to getting gas cylinders, I focus on this problem for my project.Please help me by answering this very short survey in 5 minutes https://surveyplanet.com/5565c18e3a1899063cb70d26feel free to share to any welder Thanks, your help is much appreciated !
Reply:Originally Posted by JimFromTXHi everybody,As I explained in the "introduce yourself" section, i'm not a welder but a welder's son studying entrepreneurship in college.As my dad was always pissed off when it came to getting gas cylinders, I focus on this problem for my project.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelson......this survey has canned, innocuous questionsTell us--Jim---what is the problem as you see it?
Reply:I don't think anybody minded too much when cylinders were leased for $25/yr. Now they are leased for $75 or more bucks a year. Not everybody sells cylinders so it can be a little more difficult getting them filled. Sometimes you have to leave them for a day or 2, acetylene some times even longer. Gas suppliers only like to exchange their own cylinders. It's kind of like honor among thieves that most gas suppliers only exchange their own cylinders.
Reply:I have no problems renting or exchanging tanks - what problem does your dad have?Fixing an identified problem is more efficient than the shotgun approach.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:the poster has no real issues, its a school project or so he states.....and has started several threads on the same thing..take a survey..............feels more like spam....Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:I tend to agreeDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I'd guess this poster is an entrepreneur. I'm not clear how he would make a profit addressing my problem. I'm a long way from big population. The nearest city isn't big enough to support lots of gas suppliers. Airgas, and Maine Oxy are big chains. I believe Airgas charges as much as the market will bear. I accept the scarcity of helium, but argon is extracted from air! I don't accept the dramatic increase in the cost of argon, and oxygen. Others report much lower prices than I can get.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:In this area the "thieves charging all the market will bear " own the majority of the tanks. Very small tanks can be owned and exchanged at places like TSC stores at a cheaper rate. They BTW get their gas from Praxair who generally will not mach price and certainly not on a volume unit price on a larger cylinder. Not all work or situations will allow you to use propane as opposed acetylene but you can get those exchanges on your local BBQ. NOTE best not to try to exchange when management and mismanagement are cooking your steak
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BI'd guess this poster is an entrepreneur. I'm not clear how he would make a profit addressing my problem. I'm a long way from big population. The nearest city isn't big enough to support lots of gas suppliers. Airgas, and Maine Oxy are big chains. I believe Airgas charges as much as the market will bear. I accept the scarcity of helium, but argon is extracted from air! I don't accept the dramatic increase in the cost of argon, and oxygen. Others report much lower prices than I can get.
Reply:Originally Posted by JimFromTXThanks, it's exactly that, I study entrepreneurship as I explained when I introduced myself. I'm not a spam, I'm just a student with some connection with the world of welding and when I read people complaining about prices set in a monopoly configuration like Airgas, this confirms my hypothesis that there IS a problem.The survey is to help me understand if this feeling is widespread or not, etc.  So far around 40 % of participants think that getting gas is to expensive and around 25-30% find that it's a hassle and takes time.I'm sorry if I did not do it the right way but I don't feel like spamming as I wrote only one thread and introduced myself, anyway I did not intend to
Reply:gas bottle troubles sen to vary quite a bit from region to region.I have had Zero problems here in Los Angeles using Airgas.I am just a hobby size user so my bottles are small.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:I use Northeast Airgas and only have rave reviews about quality and service...I call..They deliver when they say they will.Never "Bad Argon" or as the myth goes..And never empty or half full when delivered....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Pricing usually depends on geography/location, supply and demand. An example would be if I was the only seller in the area, I could charge a higher price for my goods because I'm not competing with anybody or I'm the only seller that has what you need. Another point is that I'm local to you, I'm nearer so I could get goods to you sooner, lessening your downtime. It would be a different situation if I had several competition selling the same goods. Generally pricing and services would be more competetive in a saturated market.On cylinder exchage or refilling, suppliers only accepting their own cylinders is because of liability issues. This is what my supplier tells me. It is because gas cylinders are supposed to undergo testing for safety reasons. They would only accept their own cylinders for exchange or refilling because thet cant verify when owner owned cylinders were last tested.
Reply:You have a good point.First cylinder I got was empty, 2nd was a leaker.I turned in new cylinders,got junk cylinders on swap.Rusty cylinders with chewed threads.I havent used the torch set since.I used a friends CO2 cylinder until he sold his MIG welder.My mig has been idle for 5 years now.The torch will be converted to propane.Gas suppliers are a bunch of crooks.My stick welders dont use frigging gas.Maine OXY Wouldnt sell me acetylene even though I had bought CO2 from them.I used a borrowed torch in the 50s, paid the rent and returned the rig with full tanks.What would it be like if we got the same crap when we bought gasoline for our cars and trucks.
Reply:Originally Posted by JimFromTXThanks, it's exactly that, I study entrepreneurship as I explained when I introduced myself. I'm not a spam, I'm just a student with some connection with the world of welding and when I read people complaining about prices set in a monopoly configuration like Airgas, this confirms my hypothesis that there IS a problem.The survey is to help me understand if this feeling is widespread or not, etc.  So far around 40 % of participants think that getting gas is to expensive and around 25-30% find that it's a hassle and takes time.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelson1-This biz and hassle of owned, non-owned cylinders (created and maintained by the suppliers), could be eliminated:-every cylinder has an S/N stamped into it-the neck ring of every cylinder could have an RFID tag permanently installed in the ring-the tag could ID the S/N, the chain of possession, the hydro test dating, record each time it's filled at the fill plant and with 'what?' gas, etc. I would think this would be a boon to fill plant op's. Improving efficiency, record keeping, etc. is not a concern of these major distributors who are content with doing biz the same way it's been done for 100 years.2-Yes, gas pricing is whatever the counter man thinks--you'll pay. I've had a new counterman at Airgas, whup me up for$230 +tax + hazmat, for Argon fill of their rental 330 CF bottle. Which, of course, I don't see the actual invoice until it comesin monthly statement and then parlez with the store manager and the price suddenly drops to $110.3-Airgas and other large co's. own most fill plants. Many of the smaller, still independent LWS get their fills from these plants.Sorta like the vertical distribution monopoly of the major oil co's. So....the small LWS is at a constant price dis-advantage, compared to Airgas, etal. 4-Major distributor op's. see and maintain their largest profit margins on their gas sales, due to owning the vertical chain.Airgas, etal. can and do at the local level--exercise discretion as to 'who?' gets favored pricing, based on total sales to that party, etc. (I've done and do some biz with both other small LWS....but when it comes to buying cylinders or gas--they want to claim that they've got one price for me and that's-that!.....(apparently not recognizing or even caring that my small shop op can and does spend significantly more than most of the others......so I stick with Airgas.....for gas and equipment--to save money.)
Reply:The pricing/profit model I mention--came directly from store managers. It's not something I conjured uP.Blackbird
Reply:I can guarantee ya that most small LWS in a given area can and do communicate with each other on a regular basis. They know what the others have, they know the others prices. While one may undercut the leading stores prices, it won't be by much. No need to lower prices anymore than necessary. Call it price fixing if you want, but it is the way it is."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Did you go and interview any managers at a LWS  to get their version of it?Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250