How long are you liable

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If you fab something for someone and charge for it, how long are you liable for it? Example: You build a stair case and it falls the next week, obviously your liable but what if it falls 4 or 5 years later?  Are you liable forever or does liability eventually drop off. All this is hypothetical, I don't plan on anything I build coming.apart but just curious.
Reply:You can't control rusting/wear/abuse/lack of maintenance, but I suspect that if some lawyer can convince a jury that it was defective from the get-go, you're liable forever more...and lawyers can be very persuasive salesmen, especially when they have a paralyzed client to make the jury feel sorry for. And if you have a successful business, they know where to go for the money.
Reply:For as long as there are lawyers roaming the earth.Mike ZanconatoZanconato Custom Cycles @mzank on Instagram
Reply:The welder not being able to control the maintenance and repair afterwards was what got me wondering about this.
Reply:lol, zank gave you the right, correct answer.    if your staircase fell, sometimes the plaintiff/lawyer, just files against everyone who worked or breathed on the staircase.     Then the court decides whos at fault.     they have insurance for contractors called "completed operations liability", its purpose is for exactly what you descrbing
Reply:Originally Posted by LMREESEThe welder not being able to control the maintenance and repair afterwards was what got me wondering about this.
Reply:I'm speaking as a software developer, so its not entirely applicable, but honestly, these days people can sue ( and win ) for just about anything.My advice?  When it makes sense, get some personal liability insurance when its something you're serious about.It also never hurts to be friends with a lawyer.That's probably just some good general advice though.Personally i think we should just let everyone carry guns and remove the warning labels on household devices.( Just let nature take its course )
Reply:"No pics, cash only, I was never here....."Hopefully it really is that easy Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Been this way forever.There isn't an abundance on lawsuits, you just hear about them now.If a ****ty weld caused a staircase to fail or an oil spill on your property I'd bet every single person in this thread would get a lawyer.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Construction defects statutes in many states is ten years
Reply:For over 20 years, I fabricated literally thousands of machinery guards for a press feed manufacturer.The pictures below show one type of over 200 different styles of these guards.I always carried business liability insurance.A few years ago, the insurance company did an audit of what I was fabricating these days. I mentioned the machinery guards.Shortly afterward, I received notification that they would no longer insure me for these guards. There was never an issue, no complaints, no lawsuits, nothing.I realize that machinery guards keep peoples fingers from getting pinched in the gears /  belts, etc., but in the world of crazy lawsuits, this seems ridiculous.So, I am no longer with them. Rich Attached Images
Reply:I was non renewed by 2 insurance companies because I installed wrought iron railings. Never had any claims, but I guess it was a high risk category for them. I could build and sell them, but it is the install guy who gets sued if it fails.
Reply:I've been known to tell customers that for an additional $9.95 (or $99.95) they can purchase an extended 100 (or 1000) year warranty.
Reply:Or how about the "Oklahoma Guarantee"?   That's where if it ever does (by some random act of god) manage to break the customer gets to keep all the pieces.I've also found the phrase "guaranteed never to rip, snag or tear"  to be soothing to nervous customers.  "Old Billy was right, let's kill all the Lawyers, let's kill'm tonight."   The Eagles,  Get Over It
Reply:I bought a product from an old retired gentleman that he developed - he guaranteed it for life.Then he said "now that's my life, not yours" Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:In the commercial or industrial industries in Canada, you need to be a certified structural welder to weld stairs and hand rail.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:in california it's 10 years,that what sunsset insurance is for.face all times with a positive mental attitude,then and only then will you have done your best.
Reply:Whoever knows Jesse Jackson wins.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rock knockerConstruction defects statutes in many states is ten years
Reply:Rusty DeWees, The Logger (a standup comedian in VT) tells of a fellow who sells rocks, to be precise, boulders. The price is $.04 a pound. When someone complains that's too expensive, he comes back with; "They come with a lifetime warranty!"The second year teacher when I went to electrical school went on to be chief electrical inspector for the state of VT. He would make many copies of newspaper clippings, and court judgments of lawsuits. The point he stressed is, you don't have to be proven at fault for a court decision against you. In countless cases, judges or juries would rule against electricians if a moderate level of negligence was proven. An unrelated code violation that did not cause a fire, or loss, was often enough for a jury. If a jury feels sympathy for a victim, they want to award them money. They sometimes look about to see where money can come from. The guy with the insurance policy is found at fault. My friend Martin was killed in the seventies. His second job was delivering bulk grain for Agway. The truck was a dump body box, with swinging doors on the back. A hydraulic tailgate could be raised inside the doors or out. The hydraulic pump operated the dump, the tailgate, and a blower to transfer grain into the farmer's silo. You'd open the doors, the tailgate preventing loose grain from spilling on the ground. Tip the body to make grain move back to where the blower could grab it. The dump valve had been leaking by, making the body tip progressively steeper. The valve had been bad for years, getting worse. The daytime driver refused that day to drive it. Martin must have been hungrier, greedier, or placed less value on his life. He took it out in the dark. When a farmer noticed the truck still roaring hours later, he checked on him. He found the top of the doors 12 feet above the ground had hit the building as it dumped, closing the doors on Martin against the tailgate. His parents sued. In the hearings it was found that the 11 year old truck had developed a problem several years earlier. Agway managers were held accountable if profits weren't good. None of the managers over the years wanted the expense on their record. On that day, the manager wanted to defer the expense 'till the next quarter. The valve manufacturer was never made aware of the bad valve until after the death. The final court decision was that the valve manufacturer, Gresen, was at fault for his death. Neither Agway, any employee, or Martin were found to share any blame!I believe the source of most/easiest money was chosen to be at fault. Nationwide, similar stories happen every day.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:an extension of this question,say you built some say 6 years ago, but since then you changed insurance or retired, and no longer working (thus no longer  insured),  and say some thing would happen and get sued for some thing real or imaginary, is the old insurance company in force, or are left hanging in the wind?
Reply:As mentioned earlier they often sue anyone they can think of when something happens. We got wrapped up in a law suit quite a few years ago. Snow slid off the roof of the shopping center we plowed the parking lot for. Even though we had nothing to do with snow removal from walk ways, and she was no where near the parking area when she got hurt. her lawyer went after us and managed to get almost $80K from our insurance.Basically it's legalized extortion. Pay us X or we'll drag you into court and it will cost you way more in court costs and lawyers fees. My boss was quite ticked that the insurance company was going to pay. The insurance company told him he could fight it himself if he wanted, but if he did so he was on the hook for everything win or loose.  They knew exactly what it was going to cost to go and defend themselves and coughing up $80K was cheaper than what it would cost them even if they won. And even though we had nothing to do with the injury, of course since they paid a claim against us, the rates went sky high after that..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW brings up good points. And that is what is wrong lawyers know that a insurance company will pay x with out batting an eye pair that with jurys that hand out other peoples money on a whim especially if it is "big business" money. Short answer how long are you on the hook depends on who has the best lawyerMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Originally Posted by Farmerboyan extension of this question,say you built some say 6 years ago, but since then you changed insurance or retired, and no longer working (thus no longer  insured),  and say some thing would happen and get sued for some thing real or imaginary, is the old insurance company in force
Reply:If you touched it its yours till death do you part, and possibly your heirs from there on.    Lawyers will always find the money.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.Originally Posted by Rock knockerYes it is
Reply:You're right, they will try to wiggle out if they can.  Thing is, liability insurance is cheap if your company has no gross
Reply:I was on a jury for a personal injury case.The majority of the jury wanted to award damages to the plaintiff despite the obviously bogus claims.   The majority of the jury were of the opinion that even though the defendant was not at fault, his insurance would be paying anyway, so there was no harm to anybody.allI've only been on 3 juries, but none of them were really concerned with justice.  They were trying to follow the letter of the law and (at the same time) doing "the right thing" for the most sympathetic party.So don't count on justice.  Protect yourself when you can.Dan----------------------------Measure twice.  Weld once.  Grind to size.MIG:  Lincoln SP100 TIG/STICK:  AHP Alphatig 200X
Reply:Hmmm, all this is food for thought. Kinda makes you not want to get outta bed in the mornings.