drill press clock spring

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I am planning to disassemble my newly aquired Rockwell drill press (circa 1964) since the clock spring will not return the quill all the way, and adjustments and lubrication sis not help. So I thought I'd do a minor overhaul of the head including the bearings and the chuck which is very stiff when tightening/loosening.Anything I ned to know about the clock spring before I tear into it?Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:When you say lubrication, did you lubricate the quill, or the spring.A clock spring needs to be greased with a very oily grease, along its entire length, or it will clump and not have any power.  You could try to spray some lube like tri-flo into the spring.Some with the quill up, some with it down, and keep working it until enough lube gets between the layers.
Reply:Another thing to remember with those old drills, all the fresh lube in the world is not going to help if you have a solid layer of 'sludge' on everything.  A high pressure solvent, break free is a good one, to strip away the residue from the last 40+ years of whatever oil happened to be handy at the time BEFORE you grease it again will work wonders.Another great product especially for the chuck would be KROIL - its sometimes hard to find, but it will out penetrate any other lubricant out there.Once you get it all cleaned up a teflon or moly based grease/oil on those springs goes a Long way.FYI - no guarantees on your old rockwell, but this has worked on half a dozen drills in my shop - Atlas, Cincinnati, LePointe, among others - the newest being a mid 40's Acme belt drive.
Reply:X2 on the Kroil. Nothing better out there. PB Blaster and all the other stuff doesn't begin to compare.  It's made in Nashville, you can order it direct from the plant here: http://www.kanolabs.com/I've never seen it in a store.
Reply:chucks can be distorted by over tightening and/or over loading. once that happens,you can't save them. since its usually the body of the chuck that gets twisted,a new jaw kit won't help. there are some good deals on ebay for replacements.
Reply:I found the problem with the clock spring. It is double wound, one end is folded over into a notch in the side of the housing, the other end had a hole drilled into it and was riveted to the first end with what looks like a brass rivet. The rivet also appears to be attached to the housing. It broke right at the rivet. In the pics you can see the 1/2" gap between the two pieces that used to be attached.I don't know if I should try to take it out of the housing, it might be a mess to get back in. I have my thinking cap on right now how to fix it, any ideas appreciated.Thanks, BrianMiller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:I would go over to owwm.com  They have forums over there and I bet someone has had this same issue many times before.  You may also be able to find the whole part and just replace it.  People over there were pretty helpful when I was trying to piece together my atlas dp
Reply:Well the discussion forum at OWWM appears to be down, tried 2 different computers and it just won't load. I did look at some of the pdf's, there is some good info on chucks.I'll just be patient and figure it out. I know the part is not available new anymore.I pulled the quill and spindle tonight, I have 3/16" worth of end play in the spindle. I can't tell if it is simply the chuck not pressed on all the way or if I need to add thrust washers at the top where there is a C clip holding the spindle in.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:Dont know if this will work for you but...had a similar situation a few years back, return spring on a Rockwell tester.looked like it had half a mile of wound spring in it - it was held at one end by a tiny screw that had sheared off.  Being terrified of what that spring would look like after a SPRONGG all over the shop we finally got 'professional advice' - called a clock shop, their answer - Hemostats, the needle nosed medical clamp things.  A whole handful from HF, clamp the spring in overlapping sections all the way to where you need to work.  then find a low profile screw and flat nut with LOTS of lock-tite. make sure you grind/file the screw flush with the nut once you get it tight.
Reply:I have worked with springs like that before, and it really isn't as bad rewinding them as you might think. It can be hard getting them out without having it happen all at once, but good eye protection and gloves should minimize any danger. Those springs tend to be very long so hard to find locally, although in a bind, one from a chain saw can often be used to mend the original, or sometimes even substituted. If you choose to find a replacement, you might try to get the measurements of the original and send them, together with the picture (#2 is clearest) showing the inner end's configuration, to this place below, and see what they say:http://www.centuryspring.com/It might be possible to make a silver soldered, tapered     'butt/lap'     joint last pretty well too; just takes a long taper on both pieces, some careful positioning, and good heat control.
Reply:Try this site, I'm positive someone there will be able to help:www.practicalmachinist.comor here:www.shopfloortalk.com Originally Posted by bigbWell the discussion forum at OWWM appears to be down, tried 2 different computers and it just won't load. I did look at some of the pdf's, there is some good info on chucks.I'll just be patient and figure it out. I know the part is not available new anymore.I pulled the quill and spindle tonight, I have 3/16" worth of end play in the spindle. I can't tell if it is simply the chuck not pressed on all the way or if I need to add thrust washers at the top where there is a C clip holding the spindle in.
Reply:Kroil is good, no doubt about it.  However, check out this posting about a test that Machinist's Workshop magazine did in '07.  Lots of links on the net as well.  I've been using the acetone/ATF mix since, and it does work better than anything I've used including Kroil.  Another good trick is to heat a bolt and then put a candle on it, wax follows the threads and allows the bolt to be backed out easily.  Course that wouldn't work in this situation....http://jeep-forums.4wd.com/showthrea...oil-comparison  Originally Posted by SRO1911Another thing to remember with those old drills, all the fresh lube in the world is not going to help if you have a solid layer of 'sludge' on everything.  A high pressure solvent, break free is a good one, to strip away the residue from the last 40+ years of whatever oil happened to be handy at the time BEFORE you grease it again will work wonders.Another great product especially for the chuck would be KROIL - its sometimes hard to find, but it will out penetrate any other lubricant out there.Once you get it all cleaned up a teflon or moly based grease/oil on those springs goes a Long way.FYI - no guarantees on your old rockwell, but this has worked on half a dozen drills in my shop - Atlas, Cincinnati, LePointe, among others - the newest being a mid 40's Acme belt drive.
Reply:Your break in the spring is very close to the end.  That's good news, and your spring should be savable.There are plenty of instructions on the web for letting down, removing, and cleaning clock springs.  Its a relatively dangerous job, as there is a bunch of stored power in there.If you're not comfortable with it, it should be cheap enough to just take to a clock shop.There's a good tutorial here:http://www.atmos-man.com/spring.html#RemoveBUT, a clock shop will likely use something called a mainspring winder, to get the spring free from the barrel, and it is a tool you probably don't have (doing it by hand is possible, but much more difficult).Yes, this can be done by hand (although gloves and protective eyewear are suggested for the uninitiated), but this isn't something you should try without proper instruction your first time.  Without complete control, the spring can jump out of your hands, and lash out in a bad way.Anyway, you've got to get the spring out, dump the broken piece, cut a nice and clean inner end with no kinks, and punch a new hole.  Losing a couple of inches is no big deal.Properly cleaned and lubed before re-insertion, it should last another lifetime.What happened, is your spring got gunked up.  That causes friction between the layers, which will put most of the work on the inner couple of layers (you can see that in the picture, because the innermost layers don't fully expand any more), which eventually breaks it on the inside.  It is a very common problem.  If the spring broke in the middle, you'd need a new one.  No so in this case.Oh, and the spring is not riveted to the shaft.  The shaft has a rivet, but the spring has a hole that just catches and hangs onto it.
Reply:Thanks for all the help so far, delwas, I registered on practical machinist but can't post yet till I get an email from the administrator. Also the same at OWWM.ritman I was starting to think the rivet was not attached to the housing after pushing on it with a screwdriver. I did think of a clock shop and even called one today, but the woman sounded disgusted when I told her it was from a drill press and said they don't work on anything but clocks. My thought was to carefully let it down and make a clean cut, heat it up and re drill it, then re rivet it and put it back together. Wearing face arm and hand protection of course and working very carefully.Meanwhile I have disassembled the chuck as it was binding. I found the jaws and their barrels dirty and a bit of old rust in them. I cleaned everythin up with steel wool (00) and I wrapped a round file with fine emory cloth and polished the barrels. After rinsing with solvents and blowing out with compressed air, I lubed everything with some Milwaukee tool grease I had left over from rebuilding one of my rotary hammers. Now to the problem:The number 3 jaw would not go back in easily, and when I finally did get it in I cannot slide it in and out like the other two, it binds up in the barrel, getting worse the farther out it is pushed. The other two move in and out easily with finger pressure. Could it be bent? Or do I need to scour that barrel some more? I suppose I could try a different one in that barrel just to see if it is the jaw or the barrel, temporarily as I realize the jaws cannot be interchanged. Here it is all laid out and ready for re assembley:Also, can anyone tell me how to take up the end play in this spindle? And what are those threads for at the end where the chuck presses on?Thanks, BrianMiller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:Originally Posted by bigbI was starting to think the rivet was not attached to the housing after pushing on it with a screwdriver. I did think of a clock shop and even called one today, but the woman sounded disgusted when I told her it was from a drill press and said they don't work on anything but clocks. My thought was to carefully let it down and make a clean cut, heat it up and re drill it, then re rivet it and put it back together.
Reply:No prob... Originally Posted by bigbThanks for all the help so far, delwas, I registered on practical machinist but can't post yet till I get an email from the administrator. Also the same at OWWM.Thanks, Brian
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanOk, you kind of lost me there.  The rivet should be well stuck in the center shaft.  The spring just needs to hook over it, as it will always be under tension.  Really, just a pin jammed in there, with a slightly bent over and smooshed profile will work just fine.Its not just heating the end to make the hole.  You need to anneal it.  Best way, is to get it glowing a dull red on the end, and stick into a bunch of wood ash.  You want it to cool as slowly as possible, and wood ash is incredible insulation (and fire-proof too).If you have a sheet metal punch like the one in the picture, that's your best bet.  Drilling the hole can lead to issues, but it can work in a pinch.As for the clock shop, what you need to say, is that you're looking to clean a mainspring in a barrel, and need someone with a mainspring winder.  I would just show up with the part, when the guy who does repairs is in (that's what you really need to find out).Aside from the fact that that barrel is steel and not brass, you couldn't tell it from the barrel in an American Fusee clock.
Reply:I took the broken piece out today, I found it was hooked to the housing, then after one wrap it was riveted back onto itself it that makes sense. Anyway I squared up the two ends, heated them and bent each end over and hooked them together. I did it this way because I could not copy the intricate bend that fits the housing, so this way I used the original bend to attach to the housingMy hooked ends can't come unhooked because they are packed together so tightly. I suppose one could eventually break. We will see.I do have a line on a spare one for $45 in case I need it.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:Sounds like it may be a good fix, the only concern would be that your 'hook splice' creates a bit of a bulge.  It LOOKS like you have some extra room in the housing, and with it being on an outer wrap it should not be a problem, were it any further into the wrap (for those that find this thread later) that bulge could create a pressure point and cause additional wear or even bend stress on the next wrap in.Spare springs are always a good investment, but its nice to see a little southern ingenuity.BTW, never discount the lifespan of those old clock springs, I had a, 1830ish Hawkins plains rifle, still had the original mainspring as best we could tell. 170 years later it still had a better lock time than the 'modern' straight spring reproductions.Last edited by SRO1911; 12-09-2010 at 10:50 PM.Reason: cuz i kant spel