Fillet Knife Build.....

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I need another Fillet Knife, but this time I want one with my "features."I am not an experienced "Knife Builder", either......With my need, and a little internet inspiration, and a memory of an uncompleted "BoyScout" project, I set forth.This is what the blade started out as.....DEWALT 12-in 6-TPI Bi-Metal Reciprocating Saw Bladehttp://images.lowes.com/product/conv...8874348042.jpg..07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:I got to grinding, shaping and sanding....http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3798.jpghttp://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3799.jpghttp://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3801.jpg..07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:I didn't take any pics, in the process, but I did use an Oxy/Acet torch and RoseBud to get the blade "Cherry Red."  A lot of people believe that a magnet is necessary to evaluate the Molecules "readiness to conform."  I didn't use a magnet.....The blade was almost a "floppy noodle," though.I put an old OliveOil bottle, that was filled with Vegetable Oil, in my saw dust can.  Just in case I made a mess when I was trying to "Quench."http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3802.jpghttp://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3803.jpghttp://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3804.jpg..07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:I'm not an expert on "Heat Treating", either....I put it in a "Pre-Heated", 500 degree oven.  I planned on leaving it in there for an hour.  It took me twenty minutes to figure out that others do it for 20 minutes at 400 degrees.So, I turned off the oven and let it sit inside, to cool over-night...Last edited by Rhyno; 04-03-2014 at 03:24 AM.07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:Then some filing, sanding, drilling, etc.http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3805.jpgI had some small Oak Scraps, that I used for the scales.  (I think that it was some sort of Cabinet Trim.)  I also had some scrap brass, that I used for cross pins.  I should have sharpened one side of the brass prior to hammering through.  I created a small crack on the rear pin/wood junction.Some 5 Minute Epoxy, paper towels, and some clamps.....http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3807.jpghttp://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3806.jpg07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:I even used some of her old fingernail polish, to create an erasable template for my initials.  After the polish was dry, I did the Battery Charger and Q-Tip with Vinegar trick to Acid-Etch them.I've got room for improvement there, too.http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3810.jpg07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:I used some WD-40 to polish the blade and wood.  I used a lot on the wood hoping to seal.  Because this will probably live in my Tackle Box, WD-40 is fine.....http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3811.jpghttp://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3812.jpg..07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:And it fits my hand well.http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3813.jpghttp://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3814.jpghttp://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMAG3815.jpg..07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:I'd love to hear from someone with more "Metallurgy knowledge."  I don't know what I have created, "metal-wise."The knife blank, after heat treat and temper, was difficult to drill, (with some HSS drill bits) but then I switched to my Cobalt "Machinist Bits" and I was able to complete my holes and "cut chips."http://shop.neobits.com/greenfield_i...1033966196.phpIt sanded easily, and ground easily, but the sharpening stones were not "easily." :lol:It did sharpen easier than some knives of the past, though.It'll slice through a Grocery Store News paper Ad, folded in half, like it's nothin'.........for whatever that means....:lol:..Last edited by Rhyno; 04-03-2014 at 03:12 AM.07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:This is what I sharpened it with....http://lansky.com/files/7613/2176/24...pening_Kit.jpgBut mine has a Black Box and a Green Plastic on one of the stones...07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:I think most of those blades were made of D2(or something close) which doesn't need to be very hard for the wood blade. Basically in a cold rolled annealed state. 30-35r.Your"heat treat" took the skin to the upper fifties. The so called bi-metal blades are often A2 or L6 and taken into the 50's rockwell. Cold rolled annealed D2(no heat treat needed) will serve most as a fillet or utility knife. Use a Scandi type 12/12 grind and even a chimp can keep it sharp.The Scandinavians did that grind to be able to sharpen, in the field, in 500 below temps, wearing gloves, while drunk.Everything has an origin.Stud muffin type mall ninja slayers generally use various grades of stainless or tool steels like 440C,154CM, A2, O1,D2, 52100 etc but truth be known it isn't all that critical.5160 leaf spring steel with a ghetto heat treat and the average meathead will think he has the baddest knife on the block ! At 55 rc you can do the edge to edge redneck knife comparison and peel the edge off any "opponents" name brand knife with one.I use mostly A2 because it's a common steel here for making coffee and macadamia nut processing tools so I can get any size I want and the heat treaters know their $hit when it comes to working with it.It also takes an insane mirror polish pretty easily.I take them to 62-64r so they really only require sharpening once in a great while. If you use one of mine as a screwdriver it WILL snap.Cool knife you made. Try not to get addicted. It gets spendy quick !If you need to kill zombies just go with the annealed D2. It's about 10%cr so it's almost a stainless and tough as a crowbar.If your broke,just use an OLD leaf spring.Buy new material from Aldo http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Originally Posted by RhynoI'm not an expert on "Heat Treating", either....I put it in a "Pre-Heated", 500 degree oven.  I planned on leaving it in there for an hour.  It took me twenty minutes to figure out that others do it for 20 minutes at 400 degrees.So, I turned off the oven and let it sit inside, to cool over-night...
Reply:cool knife ryno. i may have to borrow that sawzall blade idea and try that myself. i also just found a good sized chunk of leaf spring in front of my garage and being the pack rat that i am i hauled it inside. this goes to the top of my to-do list.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:I make most of my knives with leaf spring steel with one of those redneck heat threats Burpee is talking about (coal forge and warm used engine oil quench with a tempering process in a regular kitchen oven). However I have used with great success a piece of a steel cutting reciprocating saw blade (50mm wide, 2,5mm thick). Truly hard to drill through (used carbide tipped drillbit) and worked it cold (grinding, cooling, grinding, cooling) always with bare hands in order not to ruin the heat treat. Came out great. Agains the sharpening stones it does feel above 50rc for sure and I wouldn't try to pry with it just in case.Mikel
Reply:Plenty of info out there on the net as far as blade forums. Iforgeiron has a bunch of stuff on blade materials and heat treating.A few things I can think of to comment on. Sawzal blades like that are bimetal. That means they usually have a harder material for the teeth and a softer material for the main blade. That would help with a fillet knife that you want to be flexible. However most guys who do knives like this want to temper and treat the parts of the blade differently so you maintain a hard edge and a soft back for flexibility. Usually you heat one side and run the colors to the other so one side stays hard while the other is soft, when you go and quench.Fillet knives usually need to be super flexible. A flexible knife is going to be many times harder to accomplish than say a bowie where the heavy blade doesn't need to flex as much. I know one of the ways blade smiths test their knives is thru destructive testing. They finish a knife and then put it in a vise and slip a pipe over the blade and start bending the blade 90 deg each way looking to see when the blade finally cracks. I know there are several youtube videos showing guys do this when making knives for their journeyman knife smith test.Even if the knife is flexible, the question then is how well will it hold an edge. It would probably work better to have a flexible knife that needs constant sharpening vs a knife that is too brittle and holds an edge, but either doesn't flex well or cracks..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Ya got it bakkards DSW. I can pull a tool steel blade out of the heat treat oven, drop it on the floor and it sbreaks like glass( I broke six planer blades like that once ---whole days work making them). Thats "hard". Flexible is akin to springs. Not particularly hard but hard enough to not want to change shape----if that makes sense. What's fun it to heat treat to different levels, cut apart and see how the grain changes.It's clearly visible.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWFillet knives usually need to be super flexible. A flexible knife is going to be many times ( more difficult) to accomplish than say a bowie where the heavy blade doesn't need to flex as much.
Reply:Yea cool knife, but how does it work on FISH!!! Hobart 125 EZHobart Handler 140Everlast STH 160Generic 210 Amp Welder/GeneratorHobart Air Force 500i plasma cutterChinese 50 amp plasma cutter! Youtube Channel : Henrymac100
Reply:I'd use a known steelI post this bunch of info on Bladeforums pretty oftenhttp://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...0#post13339490
Reply:@ 1....10 - your blade link/post is really informative.  Mahalo.  You said don't be "that" guy.  What about "this" guy?  The machining and assembly looks tight.  The theatrics, priceless.  Ha!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ 1....10 - your blade link/post is really informative.  Mahalo.  You said don't be "that" guy.  What about "this" guy?  The machining and assembly looks tight.  The theatrics, priceless.  Ha!
Reply:dude needs to put a shirt on, and beef up a little. us scandihoovians would use a sword like that 1 handed. lol.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by BurpeeI think most of those blades were made of D2(or something close) which doesn't need to be very hard for the wood blade. Basically in a cold rolled annealed state. 30-35r.Your"heat treat" took the skin to the upper fifties. The so called bi-metal blades are often A2 or L6 and taken into the 50's rockwell. Cold rolled annealed D2(no heat treat needed) will serve most as a fillet or utility knife. Use a Scandi type 12/12 grind and even a chimp can keep it sharp.The Scandinavians did that grind to be able to sharpen, in the field, in 500 below temps, wearing gloves, while drunk.Everything has an origin.Stud muffin type mall ninja slayers generally use various grades of stainless or tool steels like 440C,154CM, A2, O1,D2, 52100 etc but truth be known it isn't all that critical.5160 leaf spring steel with a ghetto heat treat and the average meathead will think he has the baddest knife on the block ! At 55 rc you can do the edge to edge redneck knife comparison and peel the edge off any "opponents" name brand knife with one.I use mostly A2 because it's a common steel here for making coffee and macadamia nut processing tools so I can get any size I want and the heat treaters know their $hit when it comes to working with it.It also takes an insane mirror polish pretty easily.I take them to 62-64r so they really only require sharpening once in a great while. If you use one of mine as a screwdriver it WILL snap.Cool knife you made. Try not to get addicted. It gets spendy quick !If you need to kill zombies just go with the annealed D2. It's about 10%cr so it's almost a stainless and tough as a crowbar.If your broke,just use an OLD leaf spring.Buy new material from Aldo http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/
Reply:Originally Posted by BurpeeGo buy some 01 or W1 ( oil or water heat treat) make a knife and look up quench and temper. All you really need is a torch , a magnet and a bucket of oil, water or transmission fluid---depending on the steel. Finish off like you did with that one.In an oven. Ghetto technique you heat to non magnetic(1700 to 1850F or so), quench, take inside and "bake" at a certain temperature to achieve a certain final hardness.Plenty of charts are on the web.When the disease becomes more advanced you'll buy a heat treat oven to put beside your thousands of dollars worth of belts, grinders etc.
Reply:Thanks to all for the replies.I started a few threads on BladeForums."1-10" posted over there, but for the others, here it is.......http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...et-Knife-buildand here...http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...et-Knife-BuildI haven't spent much time there, but hopefully I'll learn something....I've definitely learned that some people take this "too seriously"...... and some are just "post whores"......and a few offer good advice, but I guess that is like a lot of other forums.  Last edited by Rhyno; 04-04-2014 at 04:20 PM.07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....Originally Posted by HenrymacYea cool knife, but how does it work on FISH!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by docweldercool knife ryno. i may have to borrow that sawzall blade idea and try that myself. i also just found a good sized chunk of leaf spring in front of my garage and being the pack rat that i am i hauled it inside. this goes to the top of my to-do list.
Reply:After reading through a few things, and also evaluating what was done,......I decided to take a file to the blade and test it. Not surprising to some, the file easily removed material. I tested a spot on the spine and also where the blade meets the handle.So,.....it is too soft.I'm gonna keep it, for a short time, to test it. But I'm also gonna make another.......hopefully, I'll have more success.07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....