Stick for Rick

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Ok Rick I said I'd do some welding for you and start a new thread rather than hijack the other one.You seemed to think 7018 at 100 amps wasn't possible. (If I misunderstood forgive me) I can't find your original stick thread with the 7018 picts you posted up before, so I took this one you reposted the other day. Originally Posted by Rick VAttachment 70029.
Reply:1st run. I basically tried to bury the rod as I did the bead keeping the absolute minimun arc length. It was extremly difficult to read the puddle and maintaining arc length was somewhat difficult do to the older rod I was using.Pict of slag.Pict of beadBetter view.Slag was moderately easy to remove but took some chipping..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:2nd run. This time I tried to hold an 1/8th inch arc when I ran the bead. Puddle was much easier to see and control.Slag. Note the slag is just about peaeling off on its own. one drag of the hammer ( no chipping) and 90% of the slag was gone. Pict of weld. Note both this weld and the one above used the same amount of rod and produced the same length bead. Travel time was as close to the same as posible. Never touched the machine. it's still set at 100 amps.Another pict of the weld..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Last set. Same settings but this time held as long an arc as possible. Travel time was slower, but then I also had to reestablish the arc twice because it went out.The slag was extremely difficult to remove. There was a much larger bead deposited, but a shorter length. Same amount of rod used. Note the heavy undercut in the top plate..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Any way Rick the point of this was to show you what happens when you change arc length.Note I tried as hard as possible to do everything EXACTLY the same ( travel speed on #3 was the only exception because I still wanted to run a semi decent bead.)Rods:  7018 MG, all form the same package, stored the same way.Material: All prepped the same way from the same length of old ground plow stop.Machine setting: 100 amps on my Syncrowave 200. Set it and closed the garage door and never touched it till I was done.Travel speed : tried to take the same length of time for each except #3.Length of rod burned: Same within 1/4" for all 3.Length of bead laid. Same within 1/8" roughly for #1 and 2.I used the exact same position to run each bead.The only thing I changed was the arc length that I'm aware of..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Excellent post with some great examples of how changing 1 variable can make a big difference.   I think lots of folk will benefit from your exmple.   One reason I love 7018 is because the slag comes off so easy when its ran properly. Almost no chipping.    Id does translate well to the Al electrodes which burn do fast its near impossible to keep the arc length contant.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Great post DSW.  I am trying to learn to stick weld and it is very helpful to see how variables affect the weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW...You seemed to think 7018 at 100 amps wasn't possible. (If I misunderstood forgive me) I can't find your original stick thread with the 7018 picts you posted up before, so I took this one you reposted the other day.
Reply:Thanks Rick. This is part of what many of us have been saying to you about inconsistancy. If you vary the arc length as you move thru the weld, ( or simply don't pay that much attention to it)  you'll alter the way the bead lays. Too short an arc and the bead here looks cold, too long and there's a ton of undercut and a heavy rolled bead. Just right and it looks nice and cleans easy. I can show this because I took the time to eliminate as many variables as posible. You need to work on similar things. If durring your bead you are changing your travel speed, rod angle and arc length and are not aware that you are doing so ( this is different than making these changes based on how the puddle reacts) you won't improve. In many ways I don't think you can "see" and read the puddle just yet. Once this happens it's an "AH HA!" moment and things will quickly start to fall into place.As I said I'm not a stick welder. I have to sit down and run a half dozen "practice beads" on scrap to dial myself back in if I haven't done this in awhile.Your "test" posts show that you have a very detailed mind. Take that strength and build on it to improve your welds. Laying 500 bad beads won't teach you anything if you aren't paying attention to the details and are just slapping metal down. If anything all it will do is build bad habits that are hard to break. Laying 50 and paying very close attention to exactly what you are doing and changing one thing at a time looking for what works, will help improve your skills.This is the sort of "test" that will help you improve. Take some steel and a rod like 7024 or 7014 and run beads. Both of these rods will tell you exactly when you hit the sweet spot. The slag will roll right up behind your weld and you'll have almost zero cleanup. You also don't have to maintain an arc length with these, just keep the flux on the plate and move along.  That's why many instructors start students with 7024 or 7014. Keep your movements identical, rod angle and so on. Use the middle recomended amp setting.  Run say a 10" long bead with the whole rod. Then weld a 9" long one using the same amount of rod... then 8", 7" 6" 5" and so on. I'm betting you'll find one length that will give you a nice bead every time. Do it untill you can weld 10 beads the same way and the all look perfect. Expect to run a lot of beads, think lbs of rod not pieces. THEN alter your amps, say down 20 amps and do the same thing over... I'll bet the "nice" bead is shorter since to get the same heat in the puddle you'll have to move slower. Then bump the amps up and see what happens... Only change one thing at a time... Alter the amps and leave it set and change the length of the bead ( travel speed). You don't need preheat, you don't need to set things up on angles to get the slag out of the way... You need to learn the basics and get these things ingrained in your soul so you don't even have to think about them.  I'll bet when you change rods after doing this, You'll be able to skip a bunch of the steps and simply start with what worked before, and adjust based on what you see happening. It's exactly what I do every time I need to do stick and haven't done it in awhile. I need to sit down and rest the general base line for travel speed for the amps I'm going to try, and then I dial it in from there. It's no different with mig or tig either. It's what guys do all the time in the field, and what people are talking about when they say they learned with the dials covered on their machines.If you want to document something, this would be a useful learning tool for others. Then you can eveluate new rods, effects of preheat, joint design or any number of other things once you have a constant baseline to work from and make changes to. Good luck..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I was out in the shop and decided to run a bead with some nice big 5/32 7024 tonight. Been awhile since I've ran any 7024. DC+, 145 amps, Idealarc 250. 3/8" scrap plate. I love how much metal this rod lays down. This is old rod as well.Last edited by snoeproe; 07-16-2011 at 12:37 AM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW...In many ways I don't think you can "see" and read the puddle just yet. Once this happens it's an "AH HA!" moment and things will quickly start to fall into place.
Reply:Rick when I took my stick class many moons ago the school was cheap when it came to materials. You were given a 12" long piece of 1/4" thick 3"x3" angle iron to run your beads in. Your ran bead after bead filling up the V untill it was full laying one bead in the toe of the last over lapping the last by 50%.  I was told we were using 12" long material because it was impossible to run a full bead that length with the rods we were using. That meant you had to do a restart on every pass. Some rods would lay down longer beads and others shorter, depending on what the instructor handed you to run. You quickly got a feel that lets say with 1/8" 7018 you could lay down 8" of nice bead, while with 7014 you could only run say 6" with the same size rod. If you ran to far or not far enough youd see it in the way the bead looked when you cleaned off the slag.The prcatice did little to help you with joints, but you did get a lot of practice running bead after bead after bead,,, You kind of had all the basics down cold and used up very little steel to do so by the time you were ready to move on to joints..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:.Does DC+ mean ground is inserted into positive jack, rod into negative, or the opposite?. Originally Posted by snoeproeI was out in the shop and decided to run a bead with some nice big 5/32 7024 tonight. Been awhile since I've ran any 7024. DC+, 145 amps, Idealarc 250. 3/8" scrap plate. I love how much metal this rod lays down. This is old rod as well.
Reply:The opposite JamesD.  Polarity reference is for the electrode such as the acronym DCEP for Direct Current Electrode Positive.DCEP is also known as "Reverse Polarity" whereas DCEN is "Straight Polarity".  Often incorrectly referred to the other way around.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:DC+ is the same as DCEP, or DC electrode positive. So the stinger goes into the positive jack, and the ground goes in the negative jack.[Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:.Interesting that negative ground is considered 'reverse polarity'.Is reverse polarity more predominant?What situations warrant straight polarity?Hopefully my Northern tool Arc welding I DVD will help answer many of my questions..
Reply:In general, 6010, 6011, 7014 and 7018 are run DC+ (DCRP)... electrode positive.6013 is most often run DC - (DCSP)... electrode negative.The master of 6013 DC- is pipe fitter:  http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=19742Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:.Interesting.My used welder came with 6013 and 7018, but PO only used the AC side.  Says it made nice welds, easier to work with.Sorry for hi-jacking!.
Reply:Hey guys,Just wanted to add a few tidbits to Dougs'(DSW) excellent SMAW thread. Generally, the really experienced stick users know the reasoning with polarity & the effects each has in relation to a weldment.You must understand the electrical composition of electron flow as the negative potential to the positive potential in DC applications. Bear in mind that using DCEP(pos rod), the workpiece is a negative potential, thus electrons will flow from the workpiece TO the rod(stinger) & creating a heat(amperage) to melt the filler rod. This action of the electrons heats the workpiece so the filler will fuse. The distance of the rod to the workpiece has an optimum distance, & that is the consistency needed for a solid weld joint. Each variance of the distance will change the amount of electron flow(voltage) thus affecting the heat(amperage) & will cause imperfections in the weld. It is also the same with MIG & TIG(DCEN) since the opposite polarity(neg filler/tung) has to be applied for electron flow to travel INTO the workpiece. Flux-core is the exception as it has to act like SMAW(workpiece TO filler). Also, with MIG or TIG, the consistency of distance has to be maintained for optimum results as the changing of that distance will alter the amperage(heat) applied just as in SMAW.There are exceptions.....you must have an understanding that with SMAW, DCEP produces a deeper penetration & DCEN a shallower prnetration. Today, I went on a mobile job to weld new teeth to a large bucket & the teeth were quite heavy & the bucket teeth pockets were approx. .125"(1/8). I used 3/32 & 1/8" 7014 rods. The first pass was to get a good fillet from the pocket to the tooth without burning thru the pocket. I switched to DCEN(shallower penetration) with the 3/32 rods to get a good pass completely around the pocket. Then I switched to DCEP & added more filler(1/8") to bind the heavier portion of the teeth with overlapping passes on the first bead. It worked quite nicely & the customer was pleased with the finished results. Just remember, if you have a thin area, use DCEN for a shallower penetration & if possible get some really thin(5/64") rod......works well. Practice as much as possible with controlling your arc distance, no matter what process. Consistency is the key.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Don't know if he mentioned it, but Ol' Rick is taking a SMAW welding class at the local college this semester... Soon we will have a Welding Guru on our hands  apparently is a class full of Old Fart Hobby welders too..Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by JamesD.Interesting.My used welder came with 6013 and 7018, but PO only used the AC side.  Says it made nice welds, easier to work with.Sorry for hi-jacking!.
Reply:look at the undercut cold role  lack of penn