Oxy fuel welding is HARD

admin

I have never really been successful using the torch to weld. I think these two outside corner joints are maybe the best I have ever done with the torch. I tried some butt and lap joints and they came out looking like dog turds. I had a really hard time maintaining the puddle on these. It would from too cold to too hot in a blink of an eye. I was also having a problem with the filler rod balling up. Was using 1/8 plate, 3/32 RG 45 copper coated rod, #12 purox tip (rated for 12CFH, and 1/8 to 3/16 steel size, so probably equivalent to a Victor #3), and 7lbs O2 and 7lbs acetylene. Purox calls for 5-8lbs O2 and gas pressure for this tip. All plate was ground down to shiny metal before welding. I think I am going to stick with MIG and/or stick....seems 1000 times easier than gas. I had no problem welding up this 1/8th plate with 3/32 7018 rods...and I was welding 22 gauge steel with my MIG using .030 wire, with no problems at all.  Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:The first welding I ever did was gas welding. I didn't find it to be all that hard. Same as all welding.........watch the puddle!!!
Reply:That lower outside corner weld looks quite good compared to many attempts I see guys make..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If O/A was efficient, easy, and productive, we would still use it....It's going out of style, and I for one won't even notice its gone....IMO of course....~John
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopIf O/A was efficient, easy, and productive, we would still use it....It's going out of style, and I for one won't even notice its gone....IMO of course....~John
Reply:When I was a kid, we always had a Lincoln buzz box and a Smith torch outfit in the garage. I never got good with them, and mostly stuck to brazing stuff. About 3-4 years ago, I decided it was time to get back into it. Bought a torch for myself for father's day and my dad decided to give me that old buzz box. I still sucked at it, so decided to get a book (Finch...on sale at Home Depot) and try to teach myself. That book suggested learning O/A welding before proceeding to electrical welding. That was the only reason I even tried the gas. Thanks heaven for the internet and Youtube. I am by no means a good weldor yet, but I am much more proficient and successful at create welds with the stick welder or the MIG than I am with gas. I would still like to get a little better at O/A welding however, just so I can feel like it didn't beat me Last edited by Louie1961; 03-24-2014 at 10:09 AM.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Louie here's a really good videoBubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Get this book.  Amazing work that these guys used to do on tube and cloth aircraft.
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961oxy fuel welding is HARD
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopIf O/A was efficient, easy, and productive, we would still use it....It's going out of style, and I for one won't even notice its gone....IMO of course....~John
Reply:Originally Posted by ANVIL...and that's why they invented SMAW. ...then GMAW. ...then GTAW.
Reply:Oxy fuel welding is hard?Doesn't look hard...TIG looks even easier...  Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Four suggestions.Try a smaller tip.  Like a drill size 56 or even a tad smaller.  It'll be a bit easier to control the heat.  Also, have your joint tacked and suspended in air between two fire bricks.  If you're welding a joint that is directly ON a firebrick, the heat builds up.To reduce the heat, pull the flame back a bit and/or just do short welds and let things cool down especially on small pieces of metal like you have.  As you get more practice you'll be able to weld a little longer without burning through.  You can always restart and remelt.Watch that vid that burpee posted.  Especially when he gets towards the end and watch how he manages the heat.OH, and #5 - relax.  No death grips.  Try just heating metal and moving the puddle around in circles, lines, what have you.  Draw a clown face.
Reply:Originally Posted by makoman1860John, You are correct in 98% of applications. In the remaining 2% it is still a very popular method that can actually be more efficient and productive than others. Some processes have widespread appeal, some are very good in niche applications. Sometimes its hard to think outside our own little circles of experience.
Reply:Another hotrod guy.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:This is what I mean about keeping the rod just outside the melt zone.He still has too much tip and he needs a couple of dwinx. Notice the 45 degree rod torch mating. That's the way I've always approached it.Last edited by Burpee; 03-24-2014 at 06:18 PM.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Another good oneBubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:You'll notice something here. OLD FART-IZMBubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:TIG ? Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Thanks Burpee...I had seen some of those before, but not all of them. Very helpfulMiller Multimatic 255
Reply:My wife is the most technically perfect skier I know. Ask her how to do it she can't say. She never learned to ski in the sense anyone else does. For her most of the learning process happened before the age of two. Her father emigrated from Norway in 1932 at the age of 20. He had little tolerance for people who weren't skilled on skis.I can't claim this level of skill with anything! The closest I come is acetylene welding. Reading this thread I think "how is this hard?" Then I realize I've got more torch time than any other skill. It is in fact easy. I believe it to be the easiest welding discipline, if it weren't for the warping inherent in any torch work, it would be my only technique. There are a few rules for happy torch work: Be patient, it is a slow process. Confined, hot metal compresses, as it cools it shrinks. If not confined, as it cools it shrinks. Cut a hole in 16 gauge hot rolled mild with a 4" hole saw. If you weld the 1/4" center hole full, let it cool it will not lay flat. In the process of heating to fill the hole the heat affected zone expanded, as it did it was confined by the not so hot outer metal. Hot and plastic, unable to expand, the steel nearest to the hole crushed. Only the very center of the hole you filled doesn't crush. As it cools it shrinks. You might think the hammer work is to straighten the piece, it is more effective to stretch the cooled center to its original size.  As for weld bead it's all about temperature and inert gas. Clean your tip. Balance your O2 and acetylene flame, the off gasses should be inert, with no excess carbon or oxygen. Control heat with tip size, If you need an angry flame your tip is too small, if the inner cone isn't projecting like a sharp pencil, it's too big. Hold the point of your inner flame at the exact leading edge of the puddle. You want shiny red liquid, too many orange spatters you're too hot. Move at a rate to keep a narrow liquid puddle. Dab or lay wire as needed. It's easy to weld. flattening after cooled, a little more complex.
Reply:I don't doubt what you're saying, but I do think it is much easier to grab an appropriate size/type stick rod and go to town with SMAW. I have had much more torch time in my life tham stinger time, by a factor of 10 or even 100. Yet, I am much more successful with the stinger than the torch. That's all I mean by hard. And don't even get me started on MIG. My kids learned to join two pices of metal in less than a day. Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961And don't even get me started on MIG. My kids learned to join two pices of metal in less than a day.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI hear that! I started my kid on oxy/acetylene, then stick, tig (steel and aluminum), and Sunday he laid his first mig fillet weld.He looked at me like "that's it?"  He said now he understands what I mean when I say if you learn the other ones, mig is easy
Reply:Originally Posted by BurpeeNow explain the rest of the story. If you can't do the other ones too, you aint a welder ! You B a miggerIf you think torch welding is hard don't even attempt brazing.                                      MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Brazing is easy. I have brazen a TON of stuff. I can't agree with you about brazing.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961Brazing is easy. I have brazen a TON of stuff. I can't agree with you about brazing.
Reply:I don't do much of any oxy-fuel welding, but have, and was ok at it.to me, the biggest thing is having a clean tip and a neutral flame. if your torch is making any noise above slightly audible, something is wrong. set acetylene to a slight feather at the end of the flame, and add oxy till you get a nice sharp cone. do not add any more oxy than it takes to just make that cone. and again, it should be quiet! if your flame is anything but neutral, too lean or too rich, it will mess everything up. not sure what the exact ratio is, but you want all your oxygen atoms to mate perfectly with all your fuel molecules, with none of either to be "left over". you should be able to rest the tip of the cone on the material, and have enough time to talk yourself through (don't do it out loud lol) the heating process. its starting to glow, its turning red, its turning really red, and boop! a little puddle appears! try to continue your weld with the tip of the cone just above the material, that is the focus of your heat. add filler as you need, don't add it to the flame, add it to the puddle.I suggest welding without filler for a bit to get a feel for managing the puddle sizebosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Hi, seeing all the "hard to do" stories about oxy/acc welding reminds me that none of the people ever tried or heard of plasma welding with the Multiplaz 3500.I've been using the Multiplaz for over 3 years now and I'll never use conventional welding equipment again.Ian.
Reply:An excerpt from a 14 part test/study by a purchaser of a multiplaz:It's not very positive in my opinion.But the use of steam also means that it is not possible to adequately shield the weld pool from contamination from the nitrogen and oxygen in the surrounding atmosphere, nor from the hydrogen and oxygen in the plasma itself. And the higher arc temperature of the constricted plasma means that the weld pool is narrower, deeper, and hotter on the surface. Hence, much of the molten metal is contaminated with hydrogen and nitrogen, and the surface of the weld pool is more oxidized. The result is a weld that has much lower tensile strength and is more brittle. The effect is much more noticeable in stainless steel than in low carbon steel because of the differences in the physical and chemical properties of the oxides produced.Does that mean that the Multiplaz-3500 has no usefulness? No! It depends upon what you need from the weld. While it certainly would not be acceptable for welding a pipeline or a structural element, nor for production welding, it might be fine for fixing the back gate or welding a cover over a rusted-out piece of sheet steel in an auto body or in a piece of farm equipment.
Reply:I still haven't found beter way to weld dirty and rusty exhaust tubing on cars. with O/A its easy, you can simply burn all the oil and rust, and weld it.
Reply:Originally Posted by puddytatHi, seeing all the "hard to do" stories about oxy/acc welding reminds me that none of the people ever tried or heard of plasma welding with the Multiplaz 3500.I've been using the Multiplaz for over 3 years now and I'll never use conventional welding equipment again.Ian.
Reply:Originally Posted by puddytatHi, seeing all the "hard to do" stories about oxy/acc welding reminds me that none of the people ever tried or heard of plasma welding with the Multiplaz 3500.I've been using the Multiplaz for over 3 years now and I'll never use conventional welding equipment again.Ian.
Reply:Originally Posted by Mick120OA welding is where I cut my eye teeth......also made it easier to transition to TIG although, there were a number of years between.....okay, a LOT of years.....
Reply:Hi, I use the Multiplaz now that I have the hang of it and haven't used my other welding gear for the last 3 years.....not because I think it's a superior welding method, but because I can weld anything I choose with this gear without the expense of special welding consumables, (which is the prime reason I bought the outfit in the first place)  like oxy/acc gasses, Argon gas, any bottled gas for that matter and the rentals, welding rods, tungstens, and I will never ever get arc flashed or have to rely on a welding helmet that completely blots out the work piece except if it was an auto dark type.I realise it will never be used to do pipe line work, same as the family car could never be used to plough a field or fetch a ton of gravel for a driveway project.Without blowing any trumpets, my personal opinion is that it's a very useful piece of equipment, and having one, despite the cost up front, means the cost of running a normal welder such as Mig, stick or Tig is no longer a problem.With the same piece of equipment I can weld 2mm or 19mm thick steel without running out of grunt, and like Oxy/Acc you can do heating and welding all in one package......by that I mean all forms of brazing and silver soldering too and the heating and bending capacity is something to write home about.One of the biggest attributes is the fact that surface preparation is non existent, and any contaminants like oil, paint, rust or mill scale are not a problem as they flake off when the metal gets up to temperature.I wouldn't dream for a moment of advising anyone to throw their present welding gear away and invest in one of these welders, you have to realise the potential to want to go down that path.The main point is, I use it for everyday hobby work, but it's not amateurish by that description.I don't see many people using Oxy/Acc in preference to a Mig etc, so it's just as you find it.If Oxy/Acc is a hard method to do welding, then this welder takes the hard out of the equation.I read that the weld zone is flawed in that the active plasma gas is steam........don't get carried away with urban myths when the solution to a simple work tool is simplicity in itself.I think I can sincerely say that after 3 years of use I'd recommend it as a powerful and versatile tool to anyone that wanted to have a do all welder for general work.......but if you earn a living and are tooled up with conventional gear......why would you want to change your habits.Ian.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcI'm not knocking or putting down your own personal reasons and preference for a particular welding process.  To each his own and that's the single most important reason for using any method.  However I question if plasma weldimg was so "great," why isn't it used more by the masses?   It's not a relatively "new" process.