Pipe bender opinions?

admin

I got to make some stainless pipe handrails for a curved stair. I need to get a roll bender. What dIs your opinion on the different makes and models?Powered or manual ?I think I have two railings to make for now. But I'd guess I could pick up one or two a year after word gets out ( to give you an idea of how much use it would get)Looking at baileigh. Pro tools. GrizzlyAny other suggestions?G
Reply:Stainless steel pipe is HARD.If you are willing to settle for kinked, lumpy bends, you can do it with a benchtop hydraulic ram style, like one of these-http://www.grizzly.com/products/16-T...e-Bender/G9018It is also possible to bend pipe, either mild or stainless, with a hossfeld bender- I have done a lot of railings with one. Its about the only manual bender that will actually bend 1 1/2" schedule 40 pipe.About double the price of the Grizzly, but able to bend a lot more different things, and the bends will come out nicer looking.http://www.hossfeldbender.com/I would stick with either the hossfeld or the JD2 for manual machines.Once you get into power benders, that can reliably bend pipe the same every time, you are talking big money.The Baleigh are probably the cheapest- but you get what you pay for. Heller sells good quality Italian machines, Eagle does as well.http://www.hellerson.com/http://www.eaglebendingmachines.com/
Reply:Thanks Ries. Forgot to mention the hosfeld. But I think for a curved railing I'd need a three rolled machine like the electric ones that you mentioned at the end. Pro tools and others offer this three roller Manuel hand crank machines for about a grand or lessAre they any good for say a 33" diameter bend in 1.25" outside diameter stainless tube?Or should I go straight for a powered machine?G
Reply:pro toolswww.pro-tools.com/ images/small_man3roll.jpgBaileighhttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...rm7_bender.phpBaileigh also do a floor model that is hand cranked.http://www.bii1.com/benders/roll/rin...ender-rm10.phpfor the occasional use im guessing that i dont need power (except in my arm)any opinions/ experiences with these?G
Reply:Don't forget, you need to do more than curve the pipe for a curved stairway. The rail is a helix, as it goes around it also changes elevation. I haven't done many of them, and none with stainless pipe, but they have always been a challenge, not impossible, just a challenge. If it were me, I would perhaps do a mock up in mild steel (cheaper) to practice on.How about some pictures of the stairway it's going on?Just my  opinion, not from a book, just from the road.Howes Welding Inc.www.howesweldinginc.com
Reply:Originally Posted by tessdadDon't forget, you need to do more than curve the pipe for a curved stairway. The rail is a helix, How about some pictures of the stairway it's going on?
Reply:Hello gordfraser, I will try to include an attachment that covers the math that is specific to handrailing and such for spiral stairs/curved stairs. The finish diameter of the rolled part takes into account the finish diameter and the pitch of the stair. The starting diameter before it is "pulled" to the necessary pitch can be substantially different than the finish diameter. Best regards, Allan Attached FilesDIFFERENTIAL GEOMETRY TO DETERMINE HELICAL HANDRAIL AND AUGER FLIGHTS.doc (63.5 KB, 93 views)aevald
Reply:Gord, I'd give the Hossfeld #2 serious consideration if I were you. With the hydraulics it'll do 2" sch 40, and they make "feed along" dies for larger radius stuff. The real kicker is how utterly versatile they are. Once you get a good die collection going you'd be amazed at what you can accomplish with one. Now having said that, if your stuck on the idea of a roller Roundo is the way to go, if you can stand the $$$.Brian LeonardAppalachian Ironworks L.L.C.434 Long Branch Rd, Marshall, NC 28753828 649 9966828 702 [email protected]
Reply:I havent tried it, so I could be wrong- but I would be amazed if you could roll 1 1/2" or 1 1/4" stainless pipe with a hand crank roller.Stainless is hard to bend cold. It work hardens, which means the more you roll it, the harder it gets to roll it.I roll stainless with my BPR curvatricci from Eagle, its a CP 40- and it still has to work pretty darn hard to get tight radius bends with stainless pipe. Aint easy.I would get a power roll. First, I would get a hossfeld, but for big curves in stainless pipe, you need a power roll.roundo, which was mentioned, is indeed great- its the top of the line in power rolls, and priced accordingly- about double what the italian machines cost, and triple or more what the turks get.If you have the money, by all means, buy a roundo- I think they start at around $25,000 and quickly get up towards $50k and $75k if you want one that will roll 3" or bigger pipe. They usually have hydraulic motors for the two driven rolls, and hydraulic powered up/down on the center roll, and a remote control box you can wear on a strap. Those Swedes dont mess around.However, more reasonably priced are the ercolina, the heller, the baleigh, and the Eagle machines. most are italian, the cheaper ones turkish. $5000 is opening bid, and that wont get you 2".
Reply:Ries, Brian:I'm seriously considering building a hossfeld bender from scratch. Bender Plans Here: I'm primarily interested in thin wall tubing bending (bicycle frames), but it would be nice to have the ability to do a vehicle roll cage or off road vehicle frame if necessary.  I do have access to a machine shop (manual bridgeport, manual lathe).  I'm thinking I would build the dies with a vertical rotary table on the bridgeport, probably in cast iron.What dies would you purchase (er. build)  for the Hossfeld? Many thanks,zip
Reply:Originally Posted by zipzitRies, Brian:I'm seriously considering building a hossfeld bender from scratch. Bender Plans Here: I'm primarily interested in thin wall tubing bending (bicycle frames), but it would be nice to have the ability to do a vehicle roll cage or off road vehicle frame if necessary.  I do have access to a machine shop (manual bridgeport, manual lathe).  I'm thinking I would build the dies with a vertical rotary table on the bridgeport, probably in cast iron.What dies would you purchase (er. build)  for the Hossfeld? Many thanks,zip
Reply:If your main use is bending tubing, a JD2 bender is better than a hossfeld.Its a hossfeld based bender, but upgraded and improved just for tubing. A JD2 WONT do the 100 other things a hossfeld will do, but for tubing, its a lot better.And for the price, I dont see how you could make one cheaper. $300 for the base machine.http://www.jd2.com/Tooling is the big expense for either bender- and unless you have a cnc lathe and mill, any homemeade tube dies are going to be really labor and time intensive, and probably nowhere near as good as the real ones.Real hossfeld benders are made from a higher carbon steel than just A36, and most parts are then heat treated. The hole spacing and bending needs to be accurate- otherwise, the bends are not reliable. Some parts are forged- without doing them hot, you just cant get the right geometry. Many other parts are cast iron, and they have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in patterns for casting.I would not recommend making one with just a home shop drill press, unless you are one heckuva machinist.There is a second company, American Bender, that makes actual hossfeld clones- a real clone, where every part is interchangeable. The patents have expired.American uses CNC mills just to drill the holes, and make sure they are all accurately sized and spaced. Good guys, easy to work with.http://www.americanbender.com/You cant go wrong buying either a hossfeld or an American, or a JD2. All are very high quality, made in america, tools that will last a lifetime. All use hundreds of thousands of dollars of machines to make their tools right- and unless you have a very well equipped shop, you cant come close to their quality for the money.One of my ex-employees whipped up a hossfeld for himself, using his drill press and steel from his scrap pile. Within six months, he had bought a real, used hossfeld, and the difference is night and day. If you do decide to build one, make sure it has the right frame spacing and pin sizes so you can buy real hossfeld dies- they stock hundreds, and its really silly not to take advantage of their decades of R&D and investment. Personally, I do a lot of bending of round bar, from 1/8" up to 1 1/2", a fair amount of square and flat bar, and some pipe for railings. I use the bending dogs on top of the hossfeld a lot, I use the standard square blocks and round rollers a lot, I use the angle iron flange out setup quite a bit, as it allows you to bend solid square, round, and flat, as well as square tubing, into precise repeatable circles, or curves of almost any size. I bent the 1 1/4" square tube arches for my carport on the hossfeld using this dieset. But I have bent hundreds of 12" circles from 1/2" round this way for a barstool I used to produce, as well. The great thing about the hossfeld is how flexible it is, and how there are dies available for almost everything, from railing cap to conduit. I do a lot of work HOT on the hossfeld, heating things up in the forge, especially stainless, and bending hot. Kind of mechanical blacksmithing.$3500 for a Roundo R2 is an incredible steal. I am sure that new they are over $20K.Last edited by Ries; 04-20-2011 at 12:22 PM.
Reply:Pipe or TUBE????Do you know the difference?AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by zipzitRies, Brian:I'm seriously considering building a hossfeld bender from scratch. Bender Plans Here: I'm primarily interested in thin wall tubing bending (bicycle frames), but it would be nice to have the ability to do a vehicle roll cage or off road vehicle frame if necessary.  I do have access to a machine shop (manual bridgeport, manual lathe).  I'm thinking I would build the dies with a vertical rotary table on the bridgeport, probably in cast iron.What dies would you purchase (er. build)  for the Hossfeld? Many thanks,zip
Reply:Hossfeld #1stay away from shop outfitters benderswhen they update there benders they stop making there old dies. and they have the nerveto sell a manual for $30.00 and 90% of it is the same as HF. boy did they bend me over
Reply:Originally Posted by ed macHossfeld #1stay away from shop outfitters benderswhen they update there benders they stop making there old dies. and they have the nerveto sell a manual for $30.00 and 90% of it is the same as HF. boy did they bend me over
Reply:When I make pipe railing, I use pipe- I have done a fair amount of both mild steel and stainless railing, with schedule 40 pipe.A hossfeld WILL bend schedule 40.but  a 3 roll bender, or a JD2, is better for pipe.In terms of TUBING- again, a JD 2 or a 3 roll bender is better- but, again, a Hossfeld can do it, with the right dies.Hossfeld makes dies for tubing down to .065" wall in most sizes, along with dies for EMT conduit.Its not the best tool for the job, but it will do it.