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So today I drug my grandfathers aluminum John boat up from the boneyard on the farm today. I gave up on the boat when I was 10 from multiple coats on paint and trying to patch it with jb weld and silicone and everything else under the moon. But with my spool gun scheduled to arrive soon I figured id better start prep work. It will probably be a while before I can even throw a weld or a plasma cut on it with constant testing and studying to do this time of year. But ill try my best. I want to take out the seats and have just a side seat or bait well. Then at the front id like to deck it over and fix the mangled front end. Then for the transom I'm going to cut the back out completely and replace it with 1/4 aluminum and reinforce the mess out of it to hold the 11hp godevil (which I still need help with). And finally weld all the cracks down the seems in the bottom. Help me out with ideas or suggestionsSent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:I can't weld aluminum but I do know that as thin as John boats are you will have to be careful not to warp it. Also for any wood that you may use in it do not use pressure treated. You will have to be careful with the transom, and like you said reinforce the mess out of it. A lot of guys will sandwich it between plywood that has been sealed. Check out www.tinboats.net for other help and ideas. Good luck on such a meaningful project.
Reply:That boat isn't spoolgun territory. It might still be tough for an accomplished TIG welder, but that depends on what specifically the repair is.My suggestion would be to familiarize yourself with solid rivets. They are going to be your best shot on 'properly' repairing that boat.Who is John Galt?
Reply:If you need plywood, use marine grade. Living in Florida you probably already know this.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by bassboy1That boat isn't spoolgun territory. It might still be tough for an accomplished TIG welder, but that depends on what specifically the repair is.My suggestion would be to familiarize yourself with solid rivets. They are going to be your best shot on 'properly' repairing that boat.
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelIf you need plywood, use marine grade. Living in Florida you probably already know this.
Reply:You would be better off to leave the seats cross ways of the boat, they add structural rigidity. That is also where the flotation is located that floats the boat when it gets filled with water. With out it, if the boat flips over or somehow fills up, IT IS going to the bottom., and taking the Go-Devil with it or what ever motor is attachedWhat do you plan to run the spool gun on for this and which spool gun did you get? I bought a Miller 3035 to use with my MM140, specifically to do john boat aluminum and it seems to do a decent job of it. You will need to use 4043 filler wire and 100% argon. I believe this is possible with some practice and proper prep before welding, so don't let anybody discourage you from trying. You may need to get a totally trashed out john boat for the practice material, and to figure out how to dial in your set up to weld it.
Reply:Originally Posted by swampwelder13You really think so?Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauYou would be better off to leave the seats cross ways of the boat, they add structural rigidity. That is also where the flotation is located that floats the boat when it gets filled with water. With out it, if the boat flips over or somehow fills up, IT IS going to the bottom., and taking the Go-Devil with it or what ever motor is attachedWhat do you plan to run the spool gun on for this and which spool gun did you get? I bought a Miller 3035 to use with my MM140, specifically to do john boat aluminum and it seems to do a decent job of it. You will need to use 4043 filler wire and 100% argon. I believe this is possible with some practice and proper prep before welding, so don't let anybody discourage you from trying. You may need to get a totally trashed out john boat for the practice material, and to figure out how to dial in your set up to weld it.
Reply:And bass boy it is Montgomery ward. Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:And i should mention that its going to spend alot of time in salt water. So im trying to keep away from rivets.Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:Look here Swamp, don't be put off man you can do it. I've done a few myself. I have the Miller 212 and the 3035 spoolgun,it does run a little hot on a boat so be sure to use a backing plate for a heat sink.And where possible weld both sides. Just take your time,may have to do a lot of 1/2 to 3/4 inch spot welds.Good luck to ya and "git er done".
Reply:Originally Posted by backhoeLook here Swamp, don't be put off man you can do it. I've done a few myself. I have the Miller 212 and the 3035 spoolgun,it does run a little hot on a boat so be sure to use a backing plate for a heat sink.And where possible weld both sides. Just take your time,may have to do a lot of 1/2 to 3/4 inch spot welds.Good luck to ya and "git er done".
Reply:Originally Posted by swampwelder13It will have just a bench and not the whole block thing. More space for storage. And I got a longevity spoolgun for my longevity Mig. It is 4043 filler. You can weld down hill on aluminum right?Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:Your welcome!
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeNope!
Reply:Originally Posted by swampwelder13Why not? Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeSpoolgun ally does not work like gmaw where you have a choice. If you try and run it downhill it will be a sooted out blobbed up mess. You need to push the impurities out while welding and not drop and drive right on top of them so to speak.
Reply:Originally Posted by swampwelder13So it sounds like im gonna be doing alot boat flipping and turning.Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by swampwelder13It will have just a bench and not the whole block thing. More space for storage. And I got a longevity spoolgun for my longevity Mig. It is 4043 filler. You can weld down hill on aluminum right?Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:Oh and another im thinking of putting, correct me if im wrong but I believe they're called sponsons? On the back to support the weight of the godevilSent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:Fixed a few boats myself. I never tried the spool gun and would think it will be tough. It's going to be worse because of all the JB weld and other "stuff" you have on there. That stuff gets into the aluminum and before you can cook it out you end up with a big hole because the boat is so thin. I never found anything that would clean it out very well, but others on here might have some better ideas. That is definately going to be your biggest challenge.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjFixed a few boats myself. I never tried the spool gun and would think it will be tough. It's going to be worse because of all the JB weld and other "stuff" you have on there. That stuff gets into the aluminum and before you can cook it out you end up with a big hole because the boat is so thin. I never found anything that would clean it out very well, but others on here might have some better ideas. That is definately going to be your biggest challenge.
Reply:Originally Posted by swampwelder13Finally the comment I was waiting on! Thanks hoe!! Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ishHere ya go bud!I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Run, don't walk, RUN!!!!Hobart 125 EZHobart Handler 140Everlast STH 160Generic 210 Amp Welder/GeneratorHobart Air Force 500i plasma cutterChinese 50 amp plasma cutter! Youtube Channel : Henrymac100
Reply:put it back on the scrap pile!
Reply:Originally Posted by cd19put it back on the scrap pile!
Reply:I"ve heard welding on these boats is tough because of the oxide buildup. What's the correct prep for this material and a spoolgun weld?
Reply:Originally Posted by asdfI"ve heard welding on these boats is tough because of the oxide buildup. What's the correct prep for this material and a spoolgun weld?
Reply:Im thinking wire brushing the life out of itSent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by swampwelder13Im thinking wire brushing the life out of itSent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:Swamp the best experience comes from bad decisions. Don't rule out any suggestions and give it a shot. The only way to find out for yourself is to try. Nothing to lose so give her a go. I think building all new from scratch would be a great project and a great learning experience. Just my opinion bud, and if all else fails watch the video I posted. It's like a handy man in a can LOL. And no......don't use that!I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:So for the cracks down the runners in the bottom. I thought about some 1/8in aluminium angle. Think that would help with rigidity. Im going to have to get some for the cross members anywaySent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:I have welded a few aluminum boats before. There are a lot of variables that can make or break the repair. Often the new cracks will form near the welds before long. It can quickly turn into a losing battle.On the other hand, I was recently brought a 40 year old 14' Gregor aluminum boat with holes and cracks all over. The owner had been filling it with firewood and hauling it out to an island, he managed to bust all 3 seats completely out of the hull. The boat came to me with 2x4s across the gunnels to keep it from folding up. He wanted me to just quickly "squirt some aluminum in there" I tried to explain it doesn't work like that, he didn't want to hear it just wanted it welded. So i did, tried TIG at first because that's what i am normally more comfortable with, quickly found the spoolgun to be MUCH easier and faster especially with the amount of corrosion/poor prep. I am no boat expert by any means. But it turned out sort of ok, def not proud of the sloppy work, but it's been back on the water everyday since then. Byt he way this is not for a paying customer, but a family member. I made him fully aware of the risks involved with this type of repair, i really didn't want to do it, he insisted we proceed his way anyway. Of course, this was a welded boat with much thicker skin than the typical jon boat.
Reply:3M 5200, rivets and fishplates overlapping any cracks or repairs is the way to go
Reply:He's going to need a screen door if he's going to use that stuff...
Reply:So since I had my biology EOC today I decided to take advantage of not having anything to study for and started on the boat. The paint comes of easy but that nasty *** sealer on the bottom is a biatch to get off. So I decided to clean the spots to be welded and im gonna talk to our chem tech on the farm tomorrow and see what he suggests for cleaning it off. But I got to the front and realized the cracks up there were not going to weld. So i just cut them out with the plasma and going to weld a another piece in, the plasma sure didn't like all that $hit thats on there. Had to use a exhaust fan to blow all the wrap smoke away. My spoolgun also came in today but mom and are on our way to town for a haircut and stuff for career fair tomorrow at the highschool. I found a old conveyor on the back im gonna slice up and use for parts of the bottom and the transom. I attached some pics of the progress. Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:I have a new spool gun I haven't tried yet. My one experience with spool gun was dismal. No experience, I knew it had to be clean. I cut out a 5 sided box, ground and acetoned all joints. In 16 gauge it was a real mess. I've stated I'm no expert, I think of spool gun as 11 gauge and heavier. From there down to beverage cans is TIG territory. TIG is more in my comfort zone. I bet there is someone in your area willing to help you along, lots of retired pros and good amateurs with time on their hands. I won't offer, I'm in VT.
Reply:Im almost considering breaking down and getting an ac/dc inverter. But my tig skills are still...well...eh. not good. Maybe Mike will hike his *** from New York down to Florida and show me his ways with a tungsten Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:I have had really good luck with my spool gun on aluminum using a product called aluma clean to clean off the aluminum before welding it, but you have to be careful with the stuff as it can let off some narsty fumes. Also setup is critical with the spool gun and knowing how to run it is even more important on thin stuff you have to move pretty fast, and with aluminum mig you always want to push the puddle, for some reason it doesn't soot up as much that way. -Sean
Reply:I think the boat repair will be a great learning experience. Even if you don't end up with the result you want, you should learn a ton about aluminum repair.
Reply:I think a spool gun will give you a lovely flower pot to put by the mail box. They are supposed to have holes in the bottom.
Reply:Just coat it with 5200 and lay a new piece of light gauge aluminum on the bottom. This will give it double hull rating for transport of oil (per OPA 90) and ice class 'cause that 5200 is so damn strong. Sorry I work in the marine industry for a living but really take this suggestion seriously.
Reply:5200, that is the shizznits. since clamps wpould be difficult to secure the patches I would go with rivets to hold them in tight
Reply:So I need to figure out how to work this spoolgun better or a may have a flower pot like Willie b said Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
Reply:The best way I know to "fix" a spoolgun is. Step one. Put it away.Step two. Try again the next day to see how it is "feeling" that day.Step three. Continue steps 1 and 2 until the damn thing wants to work right. If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:Originally Posted by larpheadThe best way I know to "fix" a spoolgun is. Step one. Put it away.Step two. Try again the next day to see how it is "feeling" that day.Step three. Continue steps 1 and 2 until the damn thing wants to work right.
Reply:Swampwelder, the little jon boat seems like it will take more than a small amount of repair? Have you tried to weld 0.060" with your spool gun? I'm just curious what your test coupons looked like?If you tuned up on some 1/8" 6061-T6 angle to the 0.060" (or so) bottom; do you have some weld images to share?Just curious, I'd have said even with 0.025" wire that this was not a MIG job, but I'd like to see your welds and understand your techniques when time allows?I think that the rolled or formed longs you show have some pretty tough welds required. When sheet, usually not 50 series but the more malleable 30 series is formed; they thin next to the longs' pressing or rolling areas. So the edges are thinned, and the wear shown will thin the original a bit, so you're proposing to MIG weld 0.045 or 0.050" aluminum to an 0.125" extrusion?That will be somewhat challenging beads to run.Next, when thick, inflexible aluminum is welded to thin and flexible aluminum, the difference in the two cross sections often shows up as weld failure. 4043 has so much silicone that is will not stand up to the weld's elastic flexure required by the design you show in your photos of the cutouts.I wish you the best of luck, but none of my experience suggests this will result in a useable repair to the boat. My gauge is: if bassboy can't expect to fix this boat- I'm not confident it can be done.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:30:28