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This is my latest project. Im transplanting a 94 Ford 460 with a ZF 5 speed into my 58 Chevy truck. Why a Ford into a Chevy? I have 2 complete engines and transmissions with computers and harnesses, so the expense is minimal. The truck in the pictures is a donor from the local junk yard that I picked up for this project. Getting the engine settled in there was the first challenge, its real tight against the steering box. The second was getting the cuts and fit-ups of the channel. Some of it was a little sloppy so I compensated with more weld passes.I made the cross-member in 3 sections so I can easily remove it from the donor and move it to my truck. It will get bolted into the truck with three ½ bolts across the tops and two 7/16 bolts on the bottom channel sections. Plus having the center piece removable allows me to easily drop the oil pan every 50K miles to replace the inevitable rear main seal leak.The transmission cross-member is next. Let me know what you think
good and bad. Attached Images
Reply:Couple more pics Attached Images
Reply:This outta be good..Looks like the same engine and intake I had in a '89 F-250..460 Ford powered Chebby?...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by markfuga . . . a Ford into a Chevy . . .
Reply:Nay nay the best never rest, breaks my heart to see a 460 in a chebby. But I don't have much room to talk I'm gonna be putting a cummins into my 79 2fitty. So I'm pretty much making a fummins.Miller bobcat 225g - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55I'm pretty sure that's illegal no matter how much expense is being saved.
Reply:Well usually it's a chebby in something good like an old ford or chrysler.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:You are my hero I have a '66 GMC that I have been planning on putting a Ford 460 in for a long time. I am hoping to finally do it this winter. Please post any problems you run in to.
Reply:Cool build. Thanks for posting. Keep the pictures coming. I am a die hard chevy man. But somehow I ended up with the 69 Ford Bronco, the 08 Dodge 3500 and a 74 Kona Jet boat with a Ford 460. So, I am interested in your project for sure.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:Where is it written that its "illegal to put a Ford motor in a Chevy"?
Reply:Originally Posted by Mick120Watch the purists come outta the woodwork......Sorry....meant metalwork.......
Reply:My 49 Ford still has a Ford engine yet is powered by the Chevy that pulls it. Go figure a Ford that dosen't run.Looks good, and sounds like you have a good plan for future repairs.
Reply:Good job! I'm putting in an Ecotec from an HHR into a 1979 right hand drive Land Rover. Lots of fabrication to do what you are doing. I feel your pain so to say.---No good deed goes unpunished---
Reply:Woudln't mind an ECO boost ford engine into a 31 ford or something like that.JoeMiller 140 Autoset (2010)Miller Syncrowave 250 (1996)
Reply:Thanks for all the positive comments. This is mainly a project for fun. My truck currently has a '73 350 in it with the original '58 4 speed behind it. It runs fine for what it is, but the truck is a medium duty that weighs 9K lbs empty so it will benefit greatly from the swap. I also plan to upgrade the brakes from the single cylinder master mounted under the truck to a dual that mounts on the firewall. I have the brake/clutch assembly from one of the trucks the engines came from, so this donor will be used to fab up that upgrade too. Plus in the process of the engine swap I'll be switching from the mechanical clutch mechanism to the hydraulic from the Ford. I'll keep posting my progress as I move along. The next challenge is a radiator/fan combo. The 460 is a surprisingly wide and long engine in these old trucks.Here's a couple pics of the Donor. I took only what I needed for this project. It rides on a set of Albion casters in the front for tight turning and a pair of genuine Goodyears in the back for traction. That was a fun day in "the yard" with the cordless recipricating saw Attached Images
Reply:I havnt seen an all metal dashboard like the one in your donor truck for a while. Nowadays, dashboards are all plastic with fake metal or fake wood but then everyone knows that.I saw a Ford transplanted into a chevy down in LA years ago. Its kind of perverse but I guess its better than an ISUZU in a Chevy.
Reply:Looks like a fun project.. I am working on putting a 3208 cat in a old international..
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideWhere is it written that its "illegal to put a Ford motor in a Chevy"?
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverThe common sense handbook, did you get yours?
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverThe common sense handbook, did you get yours?
Reply:Ahhh that's nuttin. I have a 94 GMC 3500 with a 6.5 TD auto FWD. I bought it new and it still has only 120K miles on it and it runs like a top. The body however leaves something to be desired. I have been eye-balling a CJ5 Jeep down the street with a blown engine and perfect body. That looks to be a tight fit.
Reply:Ok, I've reached one of those moments where I spend more time looking at a problem than just making a decision and going with it. I know I'm over thinking the problem which probably isn't a problem at all! The best solution is to stop thinking about it and just do something I'm trying to decide how to bring the driver side section of the transmission crossmember over to the frame. The limiting parameter is the transmission will ride close to the floor of the cab, which means there's not enough clearance to lift the end of the tranny in and out of the crossmember; therefore the crossmember must be able to be put in place after the transmission is in it's location. I made the passenger side to go upward and sit on the lower frame rail section. This was an easy decision becasue there's a PTO driveshaft running down that side which is represented by the 3/4" EMT pipe.So given the way the pasenger side is built I'm looking at 2 options for the drivers side:1. Run the 3 inch channel straight over to the underside of the frame rail which will get bolted up to the bottom and allow the crossmember to be removed easily from under the transmission2. Build the drivers side as a seperate peice that will bolt to the peice I already built and run it upward over the drivers side frame rail.Obviously option 1 is the quickest and easiest solution. The reason I'm struggling is I'm also trying to figure out the best location for the exhaust pipe. Option 1 will work fine if I run the factory exhaust manifolds; I'll be able to easily bend and run the pipe up over the tranny crossmember. If I run a set of headers then option 1 might be in the way and it might work best to run the crossmember higher.This dilema is probably best solved by finding out the cost of custom headers, which is the only solution for putting a set of headers on this engine in this frame. If the price is ridiculously high, then it's manifolds and option 1. The only hesitation with the manifolds is they break the bolts in the heads often, usually by the third engine start Anyone have an idea for the average cost of custom headers? Attached Images
Reply:I got over myself and decided the problem was only a perceieved problem. I'll have plenty of room for exhaust pipe reguardless of which way I go so i decided to finish it up in the simplest way. I "piggy backed" a peice of 3 inch channel and used a 2x2x1/4 angle on the end to bolt up to the frame. Here's the reults. Attached Images
Reply:Good 'ol driveshaft brake drum E-Brake assy..Now THAT'S old school......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterGood 'ol driveshaft brake drum E-Brake assy..Now THAT'S old school......zap!Ah you got a 460 from a F-superduty (F-450) Just for future reference they use a 4x4 transmission to mount that drive shaft mounted parking brake. They really dont work all that great and is ridiculously easy to drive with the parking brake on.But Many new Medium duty trucks still come with driveline mounted parking brakes.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by astaindsoul5446nay nay the best never rest, breaks my heart to see a 460 in a chebby. But i don't have much room to talk i'm gonna be putting a cummins into my 79 2fitty. So i'm pretty much making a fummins.
Reply:Originally Posted by Mega Arc 5040DDYou are my hero I have a '66 GMC that I have been planning on putting a Ford 460 in for a long time. I am hoping to finally do it this winter. Please post any problems you run in to.
Reply:Some will call it an insult, others might say it's an improvement.... but for me I'm just trying to keep up with the times by making a Hybrid
Reply:Well... here we are a year later and still at square one I did myself a favor and bought a good running F350 with a 460 5 speed and decided it's not the drivetrain of choice for my swap. No top end and eats fuel at a phenominal rate! I did alot more reading and found other issues that the mid 90's 460s suffer and decided to go a different route.Diesel I did some "horse trading" with all the 460 stuff I collected and picked up a 97 F250 with the 7.3 turbo and 5 speed. So here we go for round two. So far, despite what I thought, the deisel is much easier to fit in there. I do need to notch and box a small section of the original crossmember to allow space for the front of the oil pan, but that's the only mod to the chassis.I cut the crossmember out of the F250 and cut it down the center and gusseted it back together to fit snug into the Chevy frame. Attached Images
Reply:I have a dream!!! I collect Case farm tractors and I want to put a case 504ci turbo engine in a ford some day, if it will fit under the hood. Maybe a 79 f350.
Reply:MAKE SURE the oil cooler is GOOD along with the PAN!!!!!!!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by astaindsoul5446Nay nay the best never rest, breaks my heart to see a 460 in a chebby. But I don't have much room to talk I'm gonna be putting a cummins into my 79 2fitty. So I'm pretty much making a fummins.
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideWhere is it written that its "illegal to put a Ford motor in a Chevy"?
Reply:A smidge of progress... I may actually do it this time around After much adjusting, realigning and rebuilding 2 times I have the pedal assembly built and installed. The only thing I'm not pleased with is having to divorce the booster rod from the brake pedal but there's no other way to do it; so to compensate I went overkill on the material thicknesses. The pedal box is all 3/16 plate, the tube the brake pedal parts attach to is also 3/16 wall and the components that make up the brake pedal levers is 5/16. I "sistered" another lever along side the brake pedal, welding it to the tube and the original booster rod pin and made 2 levers to push the booster rod.Opinions? Attached Images
Reply:Well this is an interesting project! Love the 7.3's!
Reply:So there is still hope for this one!!!!! Actually we are starting on it this winter. Will have a small block 400 chebby....if it will fit.GeezerPower Mig 255C185 TIGBlue 175 MIGRanger 8 Kohler 20HP1974 5K Lincoln/Wisconsin Powered (Cherry)Victor/Harris O/AK 487 Spool Gun
Reply:Nice truck Geezer. Looks like a 59 Apache 10 ?? The small block will fit in there easily. I have a 350 in my truck now, soon to be replaced by the 7.3. I presume you're going to upgrade the transmission too (700R4 maybe)? That's when you'll have to fab up crossmembers since these old trucks used the transmission mounts to hold the torque of the driveline versus motor mounts. I have the original 58 tranny behind the 350 so the engine mounts are the small pegs and rubber pucks that attach to the front face of the block.
Reply:Yup, good eyes 59 apache. First we are going to tidy up the body and get the 235 running with original tranny. We have a 350 and 400 sb, prior to v8 power I need to put a lift in the garage, sliding around on creepers is tuff. Will enjoy following your thread.
Reply:Accelerator pedal bracket. Much quicker and easier than the brake/clutch pedal assembly. Now onto the under hood brackets: fuse box and air filter. Attached Images
Reply:"And on the Eighth day... the General created The Small Block! And He called it 'Good'"...General Motors 3:15...Seriously though, I'm a Chevy guy but I love the odd and imaginative projects. Love to see the thought process and problem solving that goes into some of these "out of the box" projects...btw: My 18 yr old daughter says that they finally found out what is wrong with Ford... they circled the problem in the center of the grill!"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." - Thomas Jefferson If the Lights are a Flashin', STAY OFF the tracks!!! It might be me at the Throttle...
Reply:Heres the latest update: Finishing up a box/bracket that holds all the electrical and electronics. Im really happy with the way it turned out, considering there wasnt much planning; rather I just started building and this is what I turned out. It mounts in the spot where the battery tray was and uses all four bolts that were for the tray. I built a water proof box for the PCM with a hole at the bottom that acts as both a breather and an outlet for the PCM chip cable. The back of the box (not installed yet) has a vent hole at the top with a hood to prevent water from entering. The IDM bolts to the box and the extended bracket holds the fuse box and engine harness connector. On top of the box I mounted the MAP sensor.Next up is building a tray to hold the 2 batteries. Im planning to mount the batteries under the cab, on the passenger side. Rough measurements indicate theyll fit. Attached Images
Reply:Got the down pipe made.... only took 3 trys I'm an absolute novice at pipe work. I made a bracket to support the pipe from sway since it's being routed under the transmission to exit on the drivers side. I'll be bolting a PTO onto the transmission on the passenger side. The ends of the bracket are intentionally close to the bolts to allow some flexability in the rubber that connects them. Attached Images
Reply:Why the exhaust over to the drivers side?
Reply:I'll be mounting a PTO gear box on the transmission, passenger side. There's a long driveshaft that comes off the PTO and connects to a pump behind the cab. No room to run pipe and a muffler on the passenger side. This Pic shows the previous setup I had in the chassis, a gas 460, with the PTO and driveshaft (circled in red). Even with that setup (which never got further than where I am now) I would have still had to run the exhaust over to the drivers side.It's a short run from where I have the down pipe ended to where it will connect into the muffler. Just another 90 elbow to head rearward, 3 foot straight pipe and I'm connected to the muffler. The down pipe starts at the turbo as 3 inch pipe, then transistion into 3.5 inch at the elbow going under the transmission (elbow is 3.5 inch). I used the front section of the old cat converter for the 3 to 3.5 inch transition. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by cookieThat's not so bad considering Ford owns Cummins.
Reply:Boatbouy is right.I see now the reason for the drivers side exhaust. Nice jorb! Keep it up!
Reply:Well.... Time to get started "for real" Attached Images
Reply:Progress update and my findings on how to make it fit (long post):The 7.3L is a WIDE and TALL motor that completely fills the engine compartment on the mid 50s Chevy trucks, but it does fit in there. The original engine cross member will need a couple modifications to allow clearance for the front of the oil pan and harmonic balancer, plus a couple other things. The cross member needs to stay since its a structural component of the frame. See one of the pics on this post for the mods I did, they include: oil pan cut out, recess for harmonic balancer, cut out for the lower radiator hose and two cuts for radiator clearance.Theres little room for a radiator so I went the custom built route versus fooling around with the original radiator. The radiator I designed is 24 wide by 36 tall and drops below the original engine cross member where it can meet the lower radiator hose. At 24 wide it fits the original radiator support and uses the original 6 bolts for attachment. The only modification needed on the radiator support (yet to be done) is cutting two small pieces from the top (one on each side) to allow space for the top tank. Ill post more on this when I make this modification.The original transmission cross member needs to be removed and discarded and a new cross member made for the ZF5 or E4OD. I have some reservation with removing it since its clearly a structural component that connects the left/right frame rails at the spring perch mounts, but theres no way to keep it in there. Making a replacement bridge isnt practical because of the size of the new transmission. The new cross member will mount much more rearward, so it doesnt really do the job of the original member. However, an additional cross member is being added for the engine, so it somewhat offsets the removal of the original transmission cross member.Depending on your steering setup (original box versus custom power steering) the engine will need to be placed about .75 off center to the passenger side. Im keeping the original steering box, so I set the engine off center. If youre working on a pickup chassis (I have a medium duty chassis) then you have several commercially available options for changing the steering and the suspension. In my case, I have none. If you remove the steering box and go with an outboard box then you can set the engine dead center. Also note, placing the engine off center gives room for the power steering box to clear the inner fender. Placing the engine dead center will require some massaging of the inner fender to make clearance.The other challenge with engine placement is leaving clearance at the firewall for the exhaust down pipe. I found a little firewall massaging with the 4lb hammer is required to set the clearance needed. I went with a custom built down pipe, but I did try a commercially available pipe first and found it fits fine with the light firewall massaging. The good news is theres plenty of room for the up pipes and turbo because of the deep recess already in the cab.Lastly, you will likely run into issues with clearance between the bottom of the oil pan (rear sump area) and the top of the axle. This is not an issue with the medium duty chassis since it sits very high compared to a pickup truck. If youre working on a 4x4 truck and have it lifted then it wont be an issue either, but if youre working on a slammed 2wd youll have to convert the suspension to an A-frame style.More to come as I make progress and get past the next step. Attached Images
Reply:Here are two pics showing how the lower radiator hose will work. The hose used is the original hose, just cut short at the coupler for the degauss bottle. This made for an easy and somewhat elegant solution. Attached Images |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:29:46