Sign Making - Vendors / lighting a sign from below / above?

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Ladies and Gents,I got a paying project (yes, even for this hack!).  The project is to put lights below / above a sign to light it up.  The current 'sign' is a banner.  That will not change as she wants a colorful logo on a white background and the banner looks pretty good when it is tacked onto a board (like a canvas). 1) Who do you guys use as a vendor to get lighting fixture things?  I'm going to need the light bulb socket at the least.  I'd be interested in pre-fab'd (unpainted) socket + hood. 2) What kind of white (?) paint do you use on the inside of the hood?  Maybe with those twisty florescent bulbs don't get too hot, but I'm concerned about heat, wet, etc.  Perhaps powder coat everything?3) If the bulbs are below the sign and facing up, what should I consider about rain and snow?  drilling a small hole sufficient?  I was wondeirng if I should make a small 'awning' over the sign that would somewhat protect the bulbs and sign.4) As an aside, are there any recommended art books that show off different signs that I could use for ideas?  I'll take a photo later in the week of the current sign set up.Cheers,PS: living in Utah, we don't get much rain, but we do get a lot of sun and a lot of dry heat in the summer.  We get a decent amount of snow in the winter.
Reply:I don't do a lot of signs, but I do install a fair number of outdoor lights from time to time. There's a ton of commercial outdoor lights, so I don't see a huge need to reinvent the wheel unless they want to pay to have a custom designed light fixture. A good commercial lighting store can get you just about anything you want/need.Simplest ones are just the PAR style outdoor spot/flood lights. You can buy the stick in the ground plug in stake sockets, or use the same box and light sockets that they use for wall mount fixtures. I've given up on the cheap plug in ones. The customers who have had them are always calling with issues. Last set I replaced with hard wired outdoor wall lights and simply put the box on a piece of 1/2' black pipe painted to match as my stake. Given a choice, I prefer to light from above vs on the ground. The newer GFI's shut off at the least drop of moisture that gets in the system. Lights pointing up just ask for issues. Lights pointing down don't have these issues. Also they don't get buried in snow. Note that LED and fluorescent bulbs don't use a lot of electricity, but they also don't get hot enough to melt snow either. I've had a few customers revert back to good old fashioned halogen light bulbs in the winter for this reason..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the info!I'm doing it for a friend as a volunteer opportunity and I'd like to mess around with it and do my own style.  I'm not in this for money making.  She'll cover material costs and I'll donate my time and such.Okay, so I just googled commercial lighting and there is a place in Salt Lake that has commerical lighting stuff.  I'll swing by there and see what they have.  I'm wary of the Home Depot's and Lowe's of the world.I'm sure you're right that everything in the world exists, but this is my artistic outlet after work.  Let me do it for twice as much! : )  I agree with the lights pointing down vs up.  As I was typing it, I was thinking that I should just get rid of the issues and put em facing down.Cheers,
Reply:Yeah the Depot/Lowes stuff is made to meet a minimal cost point. I installed one exterior outdoor spot light the customer had bought from Depot, and the customer trying to "help", stripped the socket out of the fixture installing the 1st light bulb while I was putting up the 2nd fixture. The quality of a lot of the stuff they sell is way below the quality of stuff I buy from a commercial electrical supply. Good point being that they do give the average home owner/ hobbyist a place to look for parts that's reasonably easy to get to with long hours. Ace/True Value fall some where between the home centers and electrical supply places as far as quality.If you look around where they sell the lamp parts, you'll find just plain ceramic sockets with a variety of attachment options. If building your own light, it's one option. Another would be to simply bury a standard out door flood light socket in the shell you want to fabricate. Biggest thing is to keep water away from the socket.Besides stores that specialize in lighting, many electrical supply houses also have some sort of show room, or can order in stuff if you know what you are looking for. I'd be very surprised if there is only one place around you that specializes in commercial lighting..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If you will be installing on a building subject to inspection, where I live that's anywhere other than an owner occupied single family home, you need to comply with NEC, or your state's version. In every state I know of, your lighting must carry a logo of a testing agency. There have been so many hazardous installations by inventor wanna be's, that code requires a testing lab approve. Dealing with the inspectors I must please, that means buying assemblies with approval. Most often I use 1/2" rigid conduit bent into a 90 degree sweep. I use a threaded galvanized electrical coupling. stagger the length of the three conductors for each lampholder, use heat shrink tubing on each, and crimp butt splices, or twist and solder. I like Mulberry 30003 lampholders, with Phillips PAR 38 15 watt LED bulbs. I have supported these several ways. My preferred way is above the ceiling, (often suspended) indoors reinforce the sheathing as necessary. Inboard of the framing, mount a  plank so the sheathing is several inches from the plank. bore through the sheathing, gap between and the inner plank placed for the purpose. The building end of the conduit is passed through the holes, and threaded into the back of a Mulberry 30316 4" round box. Screw the box to the plank. Fill the conduit with sealant and wire nut, and ground. Cover with 30377 Mulberry cover. With a 50,000 hour bulb life rating this should last a very long time. This places butt splices inside the conduit, a violation first suggested by my electrical instructor in 1974. He went on to be the now retired Chief Electrical Inspector for the State of Vermont. 41 years I've done this without criticism from any electrical inspector.Last edited by Willie B; 09-08-2015 at 08:48 PM.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Thanks a lot.  You guys are very helpful.  I'm thinking how I'm going to do this.  I'll keep you informed. Thanks again
Reply:Looks like I would need a permit and they only issue permits to homeowners and licensed contractors...I'm not a quitter and I really want to do this.. crap.wonder what is required to be a licensed contractor in this state..
Reply:Another area where interest groups reign supreme.Need to get a permit.  Permits only available to licensed contractors.  2 years of experience is required before you can become a licensed contractor.I'm wondering if I can get hired as a temp, get paid by a 1090 and do the work?I'm really interested in the NEC code.  I think that will help me design a safe system.
Reply:VT apprenticeships are a standard 4 years of night school, with 8,000 hours of documented work in the field before you travel to Montpelier for an all day test. Pass, and you begin the two year wait to take the master's test. I'm in 46 years now, and constantly learning more.You've mentioned interest groups, VT legislators have twice introduced bills requiring paid electricians to be licensed. The governor, close to one very large scale slumlord has killed them. There is a recent law requiring electrical employees to be enrolled in apprenticeship program, limiting how many apprentices can work under journeymen, and journeymen under masters. Large contractors have an exemption from this law.The code book has an enormity of information, much of it up for interpretation. It takes more than a lifetime to become an authority on it.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:I am starting to realize how much information there is and how much knowledge there is to have.  I've been reaching out to different people and I think we are going to hire a licensed contractor that will work for low pay.  This is a non-profit.  I need to speak with a contractor to understand the complexities of what I want to do and how much I can control and how much may need to be pre-purchased with a NEC sticker.  There was a line in NEC that said 'outline lighting' was exempt from 'listing' if it was installed per chapter 3.  I'm not sure what listing means, but sounds like a good thing?(I think the paragraph above is correct, but there is a lot going on at once right now and I'm not sure how installing exterior lights works)Thanks again for all your help.Last edited by engineer1984; 09-09-2015 at 11:03 AM.