Problems with GXT?

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Anybody ever have any engine troubles with the 23 hp Kohler in the GXT or Rangers?Let me tell the whole story.Back in June my company bought a brand new GXT.My boss told the supplier he wanted it ready to run,complete,they said ok and brought us one out.They told us to change the oil at 10 hours,no problem.Well i was using it one day,very hot outside 100+ and it shut off on me.Wouldnt start,full of oil,BUT i noticed what looked like tar on the bottom of dipstick.So i get to looking at everything dont see nothing wrong.So we decide to go ahead and change the oil.I turn the little oil drain valve,nothing.So i stick a rod up in the oil drain hole and its like black chewing gum.Pull the oil filter off,full of this gum.So we call the people we bought it from,wont mention any names but OJ used to do car rental commercials for them.They say they dont know we mustve done something wrong.So we take it in to them,they say its our fault.All we did was use the damn thing for 7 hrs.Ok so it needs a new engine,3200$ purchase price now they want 2300$ for a new motor,7 Hrs!They wouldnt stand behind it,Lincoln wouldnt stand behind it and Kohler wouldnt eitherWell i was doing some welding last Friday and it shuts off on me again,looks the be sludging up again.It has about 100 hrs on it now and we have changed the oil 3 times from 7 hrs to 100 hrs and it always looked normal.Any ideas.We are not getting any support from anyone.
Reply:Hmm.. Oil might be superheating somewhere, could this be a possible engine temperature problem?. Is the engine running at a normal temperature? I guess it is kind of hard to tell in that application. Do you have an Infared temperature gun? Is the cooling system providing lots of airflow? Is there anything plugging up the fins, ducting or shrouds? Is the welder on the truck in such a way that air can flow to the engine unrestricted? I don't have any experience with engine driven welders, so keep asking around, until you find someone who does, but if it was my rig I would eliminate overheating as a potential problem, then fire off a sample of the oil to an oil analysis lab and see what they say. I can't tell from your post if you replaced the engine at 7 hours or not. Is this a different engine or the original one this time?Good Luck.-RyanLast edited by Ryan McEachern; 04-26-2008 at 08:12 PM.
Reply:I have a GXT on one of my trailers, and personally we have never had any issues with it.  I seldom use it as it is on the trailer my helper uses, and he has been very pleased with it.  i think it has around 350 hours or so on it so far.  At first thought I would say that it is overheating, but I honestly have never heard of that before.  If it came with the oil in it ready to go then "SOMEONE" would stand behind it if I had to persue a legal path.  An engine going out at 7 hours is not a common occurence.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Can't be of much help either.  I have an older Ranger 250 (bought it used) with the Onan Performer 16.  I have just over 1100 hrs on it, and it doesn't use a drop of oil OR create any sludge in the crankcase.It DOES sound like your unit is overheating and burning the oil though....What brand and grade of oil are you using?  Might be your problem right there.Just a thought.Best of luck.Later,Jason
Reply:We use 10w30 Shell oil.Dont know what oil was in it originally.I suspect it was "shipping" oil.The vendor says theres nothing wrong with it,tip top shape.Im about the only one who ever uses this welder and ive done all the oil changes.Weve took it in for maint. at the first sign of a problem.I told my boss i would throw the pos thru their front window ha ha.It does seem to run hotter than i think it should but then again,they say its normal.Just thought maybe someone had an idea.Thanks.
Reply:i've had a couple of welder close to what you have. A Ranger 10K with a 20 hp Kohler and now a Bobcat 250 with the 23 hp kohler. No problems with either. Did kohler explain how it was you fault? I believe that both Lincoln and Miller warn you not to mount the welder sideways behind the rear window with a service body or large bedrail tool boxes. I know a guy that has done just that for several years and still has not had any problems. Unless kohler can explain, better yet prove, exactly how it's your fault I would take this up with an attorney.
Reply:I know the break in oil in my Ranger 250 was like MUD when I changed it at 5 hours.  It was some of the worse looking oil I had seen.  I changed it again at 50 hours and 100 hours.  Now run synthetic in it. It only has about 240 hours on it now.  No problems.  I did find a bigger filter that fits it.  The machine only holds 2 quarts.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI know the break in oil in my Ranger 250 was like MUD when I changed it at 5 hours.  It was some of the worse looking oil I had seen.  I changed it again at 50 hours and 100 hours.  Now run synthetic in it. It only has about 240 hours on it now.  No problems.  I did find a bigger filter that fits it.  The machine only holds 2 quarts.David
Reply:We run 5-50 quaker synthetic year round, zero problems. Gas engines are already "broken in" so really you can change the oil out right away. Dinosour oil ( in this case breakin mineral oil) will sludge very quickly on a high rev engine.The odd thing is tht engine is warranteed for 3 years, so really Kohler warranty would be responsible for workmanship providing you kept up with maintenance.Last edited by Cruizer; 04-27-2008 at 12:52 PM.
Reply:My Eagle 10,000 has the 23hp Kohler and not quite 700 hours on it. I've never had anything like that happen with it. I run straight 30 wt in it and 100 degrees isn't unusual down here. It sounds to me like it is overheating, but I am far from an expert mechanic.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Originally Posted by tresiI found the break in oil like that too, in both machine. I didn't think much of it because many of the moly based assembly lubes will really blacken the oil in a hurry. Don't keep us in the dark what's the p/n of that larger filter?
Reply:Originally Posted by David R3614David
Reply:I use the larger filter as well on my 305G....can't remember the pn, but, I get them at Napa.Yeah, yeah, I know you are a weldor too. But, are you a good one?
Reply:We kinda aviod using the larger oil filters due to oil pressure problems caused by the different types of filters used, eg, spring pressure valved, free flow filters & physical size .  Really best to use the recommended filter for the application.
Reply:Just an update.We had a Kohler dealer/mechanic come look at the engine.This was an independant guy not from the vendor we bought machine from.He can find nothing wrong with it,but yet oil is sludging again.He took an oil sample for testing.He says problem with oil but i call b.s.We run the same oil in our pumps,compressors etc and have no problems.Our pumps get ran HARD.Sometimes 24/7.Sometimes we have to wire the govenors open to pump heavy muddy water,they will get so hot the mufflers glow cherry red.And they very rarely get an oil change.I just dont think the oil is bad.All of our pumps are Honda engines though so not a direct comparison.Will post if i get any results from test
Reply:Thanks for the update.  Keep us posted on what follows...I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Well we got results back from oil analysis.Overheated oil,they say the oil is bad.I almost have to believe them cause its done this on 2 different motors.I still say theres something wrong with the welder,it just runs to hot.We have switched oils and crossed fingers.Thankfully we caught it early this time.
Reply:Originally Posted by brh1969Well we got results back from oil analysis.Overheated oil,they say the oil is bad.I almost have to believe them cause its done this on 2 different motors.I still say theres something wrong with the welder,it just runs to hot.We have switched oils and crossed fingers.Thankfully we caught it early this time.
Reply:Originally Posted by tresiGot a picture of how it's mounted in the truck? Makes me wonder if you have an airflow problem.
Reply:Its not mounted on a truck.When the first engine sludged there was nothing sitting within 10 yards of it.It was 100+ degrees that day.Second time it started sludging it was about 40 degrees.Welder was sitting inside building on concrete floor nothing within 15-20 feet of it.Its not an airflow prob caused by anything we are doing.The different oil seems to be doing better,Citgo 10/30.Only have a few hours on the new oil so time will tell.Still seems to hot to me but all the mechs say its good.Oh well good thing we are a big company.
Reply:Really there is no breakin time for the little gas drives, as the engines are aready broken in at the factory. So you can change your oil out to synthetic right after recieving the unit with zero problems
Reply:brh1969, if you think it is running to hot then just shoot it with an infared thermometer.  It will tell you how hot it is running then you will know without a doubt.  Harbor Freight even has them for 40 bucks.Cruizer, I'm not doubting you, but how do they break them in at the factory without running them?  When I bought both of mine I pulled the spark plugs, and both cylinders showed no signs of being run.  I actually called Kohler about a month ago (about a small block I had ordered for a mower), and they told me the oil MUST me changed at 10 hours due to break in......  Just got me thinking.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Cause we were informed by Kohler and Onan that the engines were ranup & tested for 1 hour at there respective factories. Each welder is also load tested before being shipped as well. We don't like to leave the mineral oil in the crankcase any longer than we have to.
Reply:first off the are way over pricing the engine. We just had to replace one for a customer, and his total bill for tear down, engine purchase and reassembly was $1600
Reply:Sounds like you need a new machineNever buy a machine that was made on friday. Last edited by mb_welder; 05-25-2008 at 10:49 PM.
Reply:I believe the larger filter I have for my Eagle with the Kohler is a Fram PH3600. Couldn't get one for the Honda on the Ranger. I run straight 30 wt in the Eagle, but switching to 40 on next oil change. The Honda has 1000 more hours on it than the Kohler and it uses some oil. I put the 40 in it and a Fram filter for high mileage engines and it cut way down on the oil usage. Not any help for you, but maybe for someone else.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.