Butt welding 5/16" round bar stock with stick welder, advice requested.

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Hello. I'm newbie hobby welder with a borrowed old buzz box. I'm making steel shelf racks for a meat smoker and after struggling to get one done, I would appreciate hearing hints for the next five. The frame is 5/16" round bar and I have to make two butt welds and two T welds for each rack. I'm using 6011 rod and 105 Amps. I stick the rod a lot, but if I go hotter, it blows through and then I have to build a bridge. I beveled both edges at about 45 degrees on the butt welds and the center on the T welds. This is the first frame.All of the welds seem pretty weak, but the butt welds are the worst. But I continued on and welded the expanded metal grate onto the frame. That was not fun. Here is the first one before final grinding so you can see what I'm trying to accomplish.TIA for any advice you can give me (other than buying my own sensible welder). Attached Images
Reply:What size rod are you using?For 3/32 6011, I run 70-75 amps for 20 gauge up to 1/8"They are probably more than sturdy enough for the application
Reply:Originally Posted by Fnord5What size rod are you using?For 3/32 6011, I run 70-75 amps for 20 gauge up to 1/8"They are probably more than sturdy enough for the application
Reply:Originally Posted by Cedar EaterMy mistake. I was told that the rod was 6011, but it's marked 6010, and I think it's 1/8" or possibly 5/32". The welder is a Lincoln tombstone. But am I missing something? 5/16" bar stock is 3/16" bigger than your "20 gauge up to 1/8". I could see going smaller for tacking the expanded metal to the bar, but I'm not clear on why I would go smaller for welding the bar.
Reply:Originally Posted by noriteThat is your problem. 6010 is a DC rod, 6011 is what you want.  It is similar to to 6010 but is made to work on AC current which is what your Lincoln puts out.
Reply:Honestly if it's clean steel, you could get away with something nicer to work with if you want. 6013 or 7018AC would run a lot smoother for you. Even 7014 if you find some. The tombstone you refer to, is this an AC225?3/32" electrode will be your friend as stated earlier. Sent from my dumb smartphoneTeach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Yeah, smaller rod will work better.  You can make multiple passes but chip the slag off after each pass.  Overlap your passes by 50%Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:for the expanded metal, perhaps a 1/16" 6011? 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Originally Posted by teachagmechHonestly if it's clean steel, you could get away with something nicer to work with if you want. 6013 or 7018AC would run a lot smoother for you. Even 7014 if you find some. The tombstone you refer to, is this an AC225?3/32" electrode will be your friend as stated earlier. Sent from my dumb smartphone
Reply:Originally Posted by Oscarfor the expanded metal, perhaps a 1/16" 6011?
Reply:The softer arc characteristic of 6013/7018 won't blow through as easily as 6011Sent from my dumb smartphoneTeach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Okay, I'm going to go with the advice to try 3/32" 6013 for welding the bar, but I still would like to understand the point about using smaller rod on steel bigger than 1/8". Is it just because I'm only making small welds at the ends of the bars instead instead of welding plate to plate?
Reply:You have the steel beveled, so where you are welding is smaller. And because your weld length is so teeny tiny, by the time you get a larger rod lit, and puddle established, you'll be well on your way to burning through.
Reply:Also consider the available mass around the weld joint to draw heat away from the molten puddle. The less material present, the less heat input needed. Sent from my dumb smartphoneTeach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Those tips make sense. Thanks, guys. I'm pretty confident that the next attempt will be less frustrating. I thought all the rod sticking and blow throughs were just poor technique.
Reply:Originally Posted by Cedar EaterThose tips make sense. Thanks, guys. I'm pretty confident that the next attempt will be less frustrating. I thought all the rod sticking and blow throughs were just poor technique.
Reply:The 6013 rod works much better. I'm doing well with 3/32" and at only 40 amps, but now I'm having trouble keeping the two pieces of bar aligned. Any recommendations on how to make a jig for that? The two pieces of bar stock are 4' long.
Reply:You could try a piece of angle iron and a few clamps?  You can lay the rod in the bottom of the "V" and that might help. Maybe a vise(just don't weld the jaws)Sent from my dumb smartphoneTeach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Originally Posted by teachagmechYou could try a piece of angle iron and a few clamps?  You can lay the rod in the bottom of the "V" and that might help. Maybe a vise(just don't weld the jaws)Sent from my dumb smartphone
Reply:Short of a lot of work, you'll just have to take that chance. You should be able to tack weld them then move them to a gap and weldSent from my dumb smartphoneTeach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:I used pennies to elevate the bar stock by a small amount to help prevent welding to the angle iron that I salvaged from an old bed frame. That helped. I finally got a good solid joint, after a few more tries. I learned something from each attempt. I reduced the bevel angle.
Reply:Originally Posted by Cedar EaterWouldn't the bar get welded to the angle iron? I've been thinking I would need the two pieces to be over a gap.
Reply:Originally Posted by Cedar EaterWouldn't the bar get welded to the angle iron? I've been thinking I would need the two pieces to be over a gap.
Reply:Thanks for the tips guys. I used a long piece of angle iron and stood the bars off a little bit with spacers. The gap may have helped prevent bonding. I've made the other five long bars that I need to bend now. It took me a few attempts to learn how not to get a puddle of slag in the gap. I did real well on the last two bars.