Problems with an old Van Norman mill

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So the elevating axis on my mill at work is acting up. the lever is hard to get in gear and then dont want to come out. I have narrowed it down to a problem in gearing under the front cover of the knee. Problem is i cant get the hi/low knob off to remove the cover. this pin here seems to be holding it.It is not a through pin. I DO have a book but it is an older machine (1975 date of manufacture) and the exploded drawings dont go into much detail in this area.Can anyone point me in the right direction? Dose the Pin even have to come out or does the whole shaft come out?If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:Is the circle shown in the center of the pin just a tit left from a cutting-off operation? Is the pin hardened, or could it be drilled in its center, tapped, and pulled out with  a slide hammer or other puller? I can't tell if the pin is large enough to work with nor do I know the machine and what is required to remove the cover. Anyone else?
Reply:the tit is not any type of release that i can tell so its probably just machining marks. Pin diameter looks to be about 3/8"  I think the pin is hardened from tapping on it with a small chisel. Good idea tho If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:What model is your VN?  Unless you find an owner here, my suggstion would be post it over at Practical Machinist. They have a section dedicated to older US iron including Van Norman as well as a good pool of knowledgeable guys (mixed in with a couple of a$$hats).
Reply:Originally Posted by dunemetalWhat model is your VN?  Unless you find an owner here, my suggstion would be post it over at Practical Machinist. They have a section dedicated to older US iron including Van Norman as well as a good pool of knowledgeable guys (mixed in with a couple of a$$hats).
Reply:The other hole looks like it is threaded.  Did it have a setscrew?  Is the pin just a locator for shift location?  I can't imagine a knob pinned in place with no way to remove the pin.
Reply:Yes it did have a set screw. I removed it and still nothing. The knob dose not turn a full 360 so  I am thinking the pin must mate up to some kind of groove in a shaft. I have registered on Practical Machinist and followed the link in email but am unable to start a new thread.  Does it take awhile for an account to be activated? This is kinda driving me nuts, and I still got 2 days before I go back to work If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:Could the pin be spring loaded and it pushes in like a detent?
Reply:http://www.machinistweb.com/manuals/Here is a site with some Van Norman manuals,what is the model number of your mill?Possibly one of the parts breakdowns will show you how it is attached.Jim
Reply:It is not spring loaded that I can tell. Mill is Model 2R-3-28Thanks for the links. I found the same manual there that I have.http://www.machinistweb.com/manuals/...rts%20List.pdfPage 32. the part in question is 24-1612again. thanks for the link. defiantly a bookmark If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:Larp, glad the link was of some use. I know what a challenge it is finding info on some of this old iron.If im not mistaken,it looks like the pin is held in place by the position band that covers it.Try spraying it with Kroil or some penetrating oil and possibly using a strong magnet it will pull out. If not try turning the knob so that the pin is upside down and tap gently on the side of the knob with a brass hammer and try to jar it loose.I cant see any set screw that would hold it in,only what looks like a retaining band. Good luck,Jim
Reply:I have smacked around on it a little. Tried a magnet, but the strongest one I have is just a welders triangle. Have not put any type of oil on it yet. I will soak it down tuesday morning and give it another go about lunchtime.If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:I looked at the breakdown fairly well yesterday, and thought everything inside was too complex and hard to reach to be able to just pull the whole shaft out after "a little work". IIRC, the knob is pinned to a short piece of tube which is in turn pinned to the shaft; wonder if any of that could be accessed by first removing the larger feed adjustment dial above the high/low knob? Just an afterthought, without studying the drawing again.
Reply:What did the end of the setscrew look like?  Was it a straight pin on the end?  Looking at the exploded view there is only 1 item that connects the knob and looks as if it fits in a spiral slot.  There is also an O ring.  Looks like turning the knob will push/pull the shaft to change gears.  Could the O ring be holding it in place?Russell
Reply:Yeah the setscrew had a straight pin on the end, like it fit into a locating hole. I took it all the way out and still nothing. I have gently prying on the back of the knob with a flat screwdriver but nothing.Oldiron, I have looked the the feed speed over and dont see any way of pulling it out with out removing the front  cover first.If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:Larp, I looked at the manual again tonight and i'm wondering if you turn the knob counter clockwise as far as it will go the pin will ride up out of the slot in the shifter shaft.(this is only an assumption that the slot tapers at the end allowing the pin to ride up) I still believe that the only thing holding that pin in is the hi and low band. I believe you are right that the front cover must come off to get to the rest of the mechanism.(when it does come loose watch out for that detented ball and spring. Jim
Reply:wonder   if its just   a guide   pin      to  lock the knob to shaft ,  ......  kinda   like a keyway       ......   i  have this    weird   feeling    the knobs    just   real stuck    from age    ..         jacobs   chuck removers    work great for removing  knobs  in tight  flat  areas   (there slim  wedge  like forks and can be stacked  ),    they make all different  sizes   , and they  wont scare   the hell   out of the  knob      ...Last edited by Thiel-Metal-Fab; 09-06-2011 at 09:45 AM.>Innovations are what i leave behind for History
Reply:I believe the cover will come off with the knob still in place.  The setscrew and knob rotation controls the shift operation push/pull on the shaft.  With the setscrew removed there is no shifting and no connection to the shaft.  The drawing shows a spring detent on the face of the knob and a O ring that would seat up inside the knob. How many degrees will the knob rotate?   The drawing only shows one removeable item other than the end cover and 4 pins that hold the low high name plate.  That one item is the setscrew that runs in the spiral slot to control shifting.  Pull the cover!RussellLast edited by jones6780; 09-06-2011 at 05:31 PM.Reason: Correction
Reply:HA!!! got it off.And I am a moron.....all of this and the freakin shaft is hollow!! Simply drove the pin down from the outside and POP knob came right off. Show what you can do when you get slightly p1ssed and have hammer and punch in hand Got the front cover and planetary gear cover off and I aint seeing ANYthing broke or chipped. Now the thinking is going toward either a sheared key somewhere or a bad clutch pack. I'm thinking more clutch, since I know the machine wasn't crashed before it started acting up.If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:And I was going to suggest, "When all else fails.... Get a bigger hammer!" .No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan