K-C underwater cutting torch info needed

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bufalo11  retired commercial diver and marine contractor.     I have a K-C underwater cutting torch that I'm looking to get some info on. Also  posting 2 pics ,  hope someone will recognize this torch
Reply:Hello and welcome. I moved your post here so it can get more views and hopefully someone can give you some info on that torch. I got to play a bit with a Brocco torch underwater but never had a chance to work with an underwater gas torch..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:bufalo; in my autographed by the author (1944) book," underwater salvage operations", there is a detailed drawing of your torch. what 411 are you looking for?i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:how would you light something like that? Light it on the surface and head down?
Reply:I forget how you light them. If you look at the gas connections, you'll note that there are 3 connections vs the standard 2 on a "normal" torch. The 3rd is for compressed air that forms a gas shield around the flame. The air pocket keeps the flame going underwater.Keep in mind acetylene becomes unstable above 15 psi. You have to account for depth when you set the fuel gas pressure, so you are limited in how deep you can be using acetylene. 33 feet of sea water is the approximate equivalent of 15 psi of pressure. To run at 33 feet, you'd have to take your normal gas pressure setting and add 15 psi to it so that you get the desired pressure at depth. Most of the commercial divers I know don't bother with gas torches underwater today. While exothermic torch consumables are fairly expensive, you aren't limited in depth and they cut thru just about everything including nonferrous metals, wood and even concrete..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Since that torch is from the 1940's I think there's a good chance it might be an oxy-hydrogen torch.   They used hydrogen to get beyond the depth limitations of acetylene.   There's also underwater torches out there that use gasoline as a fuel.   If you can get your hands on the US Navy's "old school" Underwater Cutting and Welding Manual you'll find lots of good information in it.   The current one doesn't have any thing on oxy-fuel.  It's all about oxy-arc exothermic cutting now days.@DSW..  So what did you think the first time you got that Brocco rod lit off under water.   Pretty intense huh?
Reply:Yeah. I wish I'd had more opportunities to get to use one.I have no "need" for one, but it's definitely on the list of top toys to grab if I ever see one dirt cheap..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:My first use of it was on the demolition of an Interstate Highway Bridge across a lake in TX in the 90's.   After the blaster did his thing I went down and cut the rebar off at the mud line.   All total there was up around 1800 pieces of 2" rebar I cut on that job.   Toward the end I was getting thru them in under 10 seconds.   Took way more time to move the ground clamp between rebars than it did to burn them off.
Reply:Sounds a lot like how I first got to try one. They were demoing some dams on a local stream that were originally for flood control. I worked with one of the guys who knew the contractor who ended up with the contract to cut all the rebar flush with the rock face after the demoed the majority of the dam. Most of the bar was in 6"-12" of water in the summer  when flows were down and the state was worried about rafters and canoeists getting speared going down the stream in higher water.They let me run a rod or two when they brought the O2 cylinders into the shop for fills. Later when I worked PT for a commercial dive company I got to run a few underwater, but most of the time the FT guys did the majority of the work. Very few of the jobs I got called in on needed much cutting..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by ironmangqhow would you light something like that? Light it on the surface and head down?
Reply:that is an elisburg torch,named after the comander that invented it. oxy/hydrogen/air,you lite it with a spark plug mounted in a cup held upsidedown,displace the water with air and call topside make hot , the wire runs to the surface into a magneto or bangstick turn on your gas mix, and bang you'r lit, preheat takes time , move slow, it is the best torch everv made for cutting, broco's are for amateurs, which btw is all the industry has anymore.face all times with a positive mental attitude,then and only then will you have done your best.
Reply:bufalo11I got my dive ticket in '73 at the local university.  The swim/dive instructor was a former SEAL, and serving deputy sheriff.  Recovery was his primary police duty, but he also surveyed submerged hazards.  He knew I was a welder, and recruited me to work with him on cutting submerged steel at a number of river-floating and boating hot-spots.  I ordered a Victor underwater cutting torch Model 3900C - $540.00.  The torch weighs 4lb. 6oz. and burned both acetylene and hydrogen.Web chatter states that these were last made in 1980 - but they are still listed in Victor's 1986 Master Catalog.For cost comparison a Victor Super Range set cost $114, and a Victor Journeyman set was $184.00 in 1974.Within days of ordering the torch I landed a job in the Congo, so I canceled the order.I have always regretted not going ahead with the purchase - while of limited utility, it is probably the most unique of torches.Opusps - A good read - http://www.edwardellsberg.com/bio.htm
Reply:@ iron mike...if the Ellsberg torch was the best thing ever made for under water cutting why is the industry standard now oxy-arc (exothermic) cutting?   You don't suppose the fact that it's a way more efficient, versatile and easier to use process has any thing to do with it do you?  As to your statement that "broco's are for amateurs" well,  if by "amateurs" you mean people that don't want to waste bottom time farting around with older slower technology and would rather just get'r done and move on to the next task at hand, then yeah I'll have to agree.I've done a fair bit of cutting with a Broco rod.  And most of it was done in very limited to zero visibility conditions.   Based on my experience using an oxy fuel gas torch on the surface I can't help but think that trying to use an Ellsberg torch in zero visibility situations wouldn't be any thing other than a highly stressful, tedious job.  Especially at the mud line.   I think the fact that you can keep the end of a Broco rod touching what you're trying to cut thru makes a world of difference where you can't actually see what you're doing.  In other words you can "feel" your way thru something with a Broco rod.  I'm not sure that would be possible with an Ellsberg torch.  But I don't know that for sure because I've never had the opportunity to try cutting with one. I don't intend any disrespect toward Commander Ellsberg and his torch.  It was definetly a major advance in the technology of underwater cutting in it's day.  But time moves on and technology advances.