Don't chastise me!

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ok folks let me give you a little info up front so you know my experience level.. NONE!my 16 year old asked me about a week ago to buy a welding machine so he could practice/build things around the house.  As fate would have it, 2 days later ago I myself have a little project that needs to be tack welded in 2 spots and that's it.  I have no intention whatsoever of making a profession of this nor will I use it more than probably 3 or 4 times a year.  Yeah I know that's what we all say.  Anyways.I was looking at this TIG welder from Harbor freight.  Do you experienced guys think this is such a horrible idea for someone in my shoes?  I need somewhere to start but am not going to spend $2k on a welding machine I'll never use and my son will get tired of before he starts.  And in addition I don't want to fool with bottles.Thanks in advanceNutZ
Reply:I didn't open the link but tig welding requires a gas.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Flux Core "MIG" ?
Reply:If you don't want to fool with bottles, that leaves out TIG.  I'd suggest a modest flux core MIG machine.  You can do a lot with one of those.  Or, an inexpensive stick welder but MIG will be easier to use for a person just starting out.
Reply:Hello and welcome.First you might want to take the time to update your profile so we know roughly where you are at. You might find a member local who is willing to help.As far as welding with out "messing" with cylinders, you pretty much are left with flux core mig or stick welding. However FC mig has some down sides. It tends to be a "hot" process, so it's not well suited for material thinner than maybe 1/16" ( 16 gauge). even small pieces of 1/16" stuff will be a challenge. 2nd most of the inexpensive FC migs are 110v powered units. With these you don't have a lot of top end power, so 1/8" is the thickest you can do under real world conditions if you are running off a dedicated 20 amp 110v line without an extension cord. Use a standard 15 amp circuit or an extension cord, and you lower the top end limits. This makes small 110v FC migs fairly limited, even though they would seem at 1st to be the way to go for the new user. Stick has the same heat issues, only worse. Thinnest most new guys can do is 1/8". It's really a process for thicker materials. Next issue is Harbor Freight products. While they are inexpensive, the quality control is spotty at best. That means wire feed machines like FC migs often have erratic wire speed control, and that makes it hard even for experienced welders to make good welds. 2nd issue with HF units is that because they are inexpensive, you only get a high/low power setting and a 1-2 position on many units. That leaves you with only 4 possible power settings. That makes heat control even more difficult when using FC wire, increasing the challenge when trying to accomplish something.HF tigs often have the same sort of QC issues as well as limited power settings, also making them poor choices.Don't even bother with 110v powered stick units from HF they are even worse than the migs as far as how narrow the welding range is. I see a lot of guys who get very frustrated after wasting their hard earned money on Hf machines. 3/32" to 1/8" is about the material thickness range you can do with those units and quality is often poor as far as the weld is concerned.One possible thought is to look into a night class before you buy your machine. This will give you a couple of things. #1 it gives you the basics so you can get started a quick as possible and you can evaluate units with some understanding of what they can do. 2nd you usually get to start learning with better machines, so that means problems come from the user, not the unit. Last the best way to really learn is to have someone look over your shoulder who really knows what they are doing. A class may sound sort of expensive. However when you sit down and add up what material, wire, gas, electric and so on would cost you, not to mention instruction, a class is usually stupid cheap. Around me it breaks down to about $11.50 an hour.Even though you say you don't want to deal with cylinders, gas mig would probably be your best choice. It's easier to weld thinner steel with gas mig. Top end on 110v powered units is still 1/8". To go thicker you'd need to look at 220v powered units. If you have an electric dryer, all you would need is an extension cord, and you can run off that to use most 220v powered machines.Used units can save you money, but it can be tough buying a used unit with no experience. There's too large a range of used units to give you any suggestions without more info. Here's where someone close to you might be a help. You might be able to get them to help you evaluate a machine, or someone may know of a known quality unit to suggest.Good luck..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You can get this and have mig, tig, and stick for $899. http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/me...tegory_Code=TWWeld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Yeah its real difficult to get a 110v stick welding machine to work. Most need a 25 to 30 amp circuit to run any where near full power, the average household cirucit is 15 or 20 amps.I found my lincoln mig machine worked very well with flux core for many years and it could be ran off a standard 15amp home outlet. Although 20amps is recomended.If I had to pick between 110 volt machines I would take the mig hands down.You cant just go out and get a cheap wire feed welder, it will suck. You get what you pay for.A half way decent mig like my lincoln cost $500 new back in 2004. A used machine like I have goes for half that.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugI didn't open the link but tig welding requires a gas.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWHello and welcome.First you might want to take the time to update your profile so we know roughly where you are at. You might find a member local who is willing to help.As far as welding with out "messing" with cylinders, you pretty much are left with flux core mig or stick welding. However FC mig has some down sides. It tends to be a "hot" process, so it's not well suited for material thinner than maybe 1/16" ( 16 gauge). even small pieces of 1/16" stuff will be a challenge. 2nd most of the inexpensive FC migs are 110v powered units. With these you don't have a lot of top end power, so 1/8" is the thickest you can do under real world conditions if you are running off a dedicated 20 amp 110v line without an extension cord. Use a standard 15 amp circuit or an extension cord, and you lower the top end limits. This makes small 110v FC migs fairly limited, even though they would seem at 1st to be the way to go for the new user. Stick has the same heat issues, only worse. Thinnest most new guys can do is 1/8". It's really a process for thicker materials. Next issue is Harbor Freight products. While they are inexpensive, the quality control is spotty at best. That means wire feed machines like FC migs often have erratic wire speed control, and that makes it hard even for experienced welders to make good welds. 2nd issue with HF units is that because they are inexpensive, you only get a high/low power setting and a 1-2 position on many units. That leaves you with only 4 possible power settings. That makes heat control even more difficult when using FC wire, increasing the challenge when trying to accomplish something.HF tigs often have the same sort of QC issues as well as limited power settings, also making them poor choices.Don't even bother with 110v powered stick units from HF they are even worse than the migs as far as how narrow the welding range is. I see a lot of guys who get very frustrated after wasting their hard earned money on Hf machines. 3/32" to 1/8" is about the material thickness range you can do with those units and quality is often poor as far as the weld is concerned.One possible thought is to look into a night class before you buy your machine. This will give you a couple of things. #1 it gives you the basics so you can get started a quick as possible and you can evaluate units with some understanding of what they can do. 2nd you usually get to start learning with better machines, so that means problems come from the user, not the unit. Last the best way to really learn is to have someone look over your shoulder who really knows what they are doing. A class may sound sort of expensive. However when you sit down and add up what material, wire, gas, electric and so on would cost you, not to mention instruction, a class is usually stupid cheap. Around me it breaks down to about $11.50 an hour.Even though you say you don't want to deal with cylinders, gas mig would probably be your best choice. It's easier to weld thinner steel with gas mig. Top end on 110v powered units is still 1/8". To go thicker you'd need to look at 220v powered units. If you have an electric dryer, all you would need is an extension cord, and you can run off that to use most 220v powered machines.Used units can save you money, but it can be tough buying a used unit with no experience. There's too large a range of used units to give you any suggestions without more info. Here's where someone close to you might be a help. You might be able to get them to help you evaluate a machine, or someone may know of a known quality unit to suggest.Good luck.
Reply:You are only about 50 miles from me. I know we have members in Tomball and Katy which are closer to you (stated for the benefit of those who don't know the area).GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Before I would spend $399 on a 140AMP HF machine just to do stick welding I'd get a Everlast powerarc 140 or a Hobart stickmate 235/150.
Reply:that tweco is nice as it's tig/mig/stick.. like I said, and you know how kids are these days.. Interested in something for 10 minutes then they're done with it.  LOL  if I can find a used one locally might be a darn good option for "future growth"found a few of those SP-135s floating around craigslist already.. hmmm...
Reply:If you are just going to mess around with getting the feel of welding go get a HF 90 amp flux core welder. You can usually find a coupon to make it less than $100 and there is a HF on 290 & Jones Rd.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:With the useless nonsense kids are interested in these days don't look this in the mouth.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikWith the useless nonsense kids are interested in these days don't look this in the mouth.
Reply:I know that you said you didn't want to mess with gas but you can get a small co2 cylinder for the mig and it will run very well and last a long time with the occasional use you are describing. It's not very expensive or complicated, just some food for thought.
Reply:The machine you linked to is a nice machine, has a great duty cycle, for that price range.I don't own that one, but used one once, so I can't speak to durability.I have had the smaller black 220 Tig/Stick Machine for about 3 or 4 years, which does a really good job welding with 3/32 6013 and 1/8 6010.The tig on the smaller machine, while scratch start, has a very stable, predictable arc....and it is only 200 bucks.Like I told another guy on the forum, if you buy it and don't like it, I will buy it from you.My son in law has borrowed mine to learn to tig on.I am in Houston.On the other hand, for the price of the blue one, you could find one of these like I did, and you can stick and tig with it as well.Last edited by geezerbill; 05-30-2014 at 07:52 PM.
Reply:As you may have determined from the replies to your original post, there are MANY options to consider when purchasing a welder; the process (STICK, MIG, TIG), different manufacturers, input power requirements, output capacity and features of the various choices in each category, (the list goes on).If someone were to invent a universal do-all machine they could make a fortune however there is NO ONE, "all-in-one" solution for each and every welding situation.  The type and characteristics of the material being welded (steel, aluminum, etc.), material thickness, condition of the material, (the list goes on) determines the optimum process, power requirements and equipment setup and consumables to perform a proper union.  In addition to the above, make certain you have the proper welding helmet, gloves, clothing and implement the safety procedures applicable to each process.Which welder to recommend?  Check out craigslist.  Doesn't everyone have a Lincoln Tombstone (AC225)?  Or if you can find one reasonable, pickup the AC/DC model (AC/DC 225/125).  They very seldom break and you can get most (if not all) of your purchase price back if you ever want to get rid of it. (And no bottles.)Just my .02.-- BenLast edited by recycleben; 05-30-2014 at 07:53 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerbillThe machine you linked to is a nice machine, has a great duty cycle, for that price range.I don't own that one, but used one once, so I can't speak to durability.I have had the smaller black 220 Tig/Stick Machine for about 3 or 4 years, which does a really good job welding with 3/32 6013 and 1/8 6010.The tig on the smaller machine, while scratch start, has a very stable, predictable arc....and it is only 200 bucks.Like I told another guy on the forum, if you buy it and don't like it, I will buy it from you.My son in law has borrowed mine to learn to tig on.I am in Houston.On the other hand, for the price of the blue one, you could find one of these like I did, and you can stick and tig with it as well.
Reply:http://www.amazon.com/Welding-Dummie.../dp/0470455969A book like that will give you some idea of the processesVideos like the Wall mountain  videos are great instruction (but no TIG)http://www.weldingvideos.com/You can find all of those free on the net - ask your kidthey will give you a good start and idea of whichone you want to do.For me stick is very versatile and cheapGet an auto darkening hood, it's a must.