Home made tube bender & dies

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Building your own tubing dies has been brought up quite a bit. I thought I'd give it a shot. The credit for the know-how goes to my dad though. He has quite a bit of sandcasting experience and has walked me through this so far.I'm building a JD2 type bender. The parts are drawn up, and I'll be cutting them out on the laser at work. Hopefully I'll get that done this week. I was going to just buy dies, but my dad talked me into trying this. He has been wanting to pull out his furnace, and I've been wanting to learn sandcasting. At the very least this will be a learning experience, and some quality time with dad.The die will be cast in two pieces and bolted together. I have gotten as far as making the pattern for a 1 1/2" die. This was suprisingly easy. I spent maybe 3 hours goofing off in the shop.First I cut the radius' out of wood. The larger one is 3/8" thick and has a 4.5" radius. The smaller is 3/4" thick and 3.75" radius. These two pieces were glued together.Then I made a nice fillet with bondo around the circumference.I took a piece of 1 1/2" tube and glued a piece of 80 grit to it. This made a perfect sanding stick to sand the bondo. After about 5 minutes of sanding I was done. Here's the fitup pic.The die will be attached to the match plate on the right. On the left is the flask that will be used to make the mold.I may be wrong, but I don't forsee any major problems with an aluminum die. The pivot hole in the die will get a steel bushing to help keep it round. Hopefully this will work out, if not I'll just buy dies. Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Here's a pic of the furnace. My dad built this about 20 years ago. It hasn't been used in probably 10 years. It needs a little TLC, but it's still in good working order. I hope to put it to use next weekend. With little league baseball cutting into my free time I may be delayed, but with luck I'll be able to squeeze this in.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Keep up the picts. I haven't done any casting in years and would kill for your furnace. Ok, maybe just maim. I wondered how you were going the make the filet. I would have thought about the router first, but I've done similar things with bondo in the past. It made complete sense as soon as I saw the pict.Looks good. I wouldn't have thought about casting the die but again it makes sence. I would think you could cast it as one piece if you gave it some thought.
Reply:I originally thought about casting it in one piece. The pattern and moldmaking would have gotten kind of complicated though. Another small issue is that the die is 9" diameter and 2 1/4" thick. I'm not sure the crucible will hold that much aluminum. 2 pieces seemed simple enough.My plan is to drill the holes, tap one half and countersink the other half. That way I won't have any bolts/nuts sticking up.A router crossed my mind too. The problem is that I just don't have any woodworking tools. woodworking is almost a bad word around here. Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Good stuff Joe!Keep us informed.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I think that a cast aluminum die will wear really fast.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:I have an EZ bender from ToolsPlus1, and it has cast aluminum dies. I have used the chit out of it, and its still fine. By looking at it, you can see that they sand cast the rough shape of the die, then machine the channel. Ill post a pic.Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:Ok, here are a couple of pics of my 1" tube die. I think there is a misconception that if its not forged, its not strong. Take a look at all the stuff in your engine bay that is cast. A whole lot of heating and cooling, vibrations, and just plain abuse that goes on in there, but it works.Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:I think it'll be ok, I've been wrong before. The only areas that I'm worried will wear are the pin holes. I'm hoping that steel bushings will help.This is for hobby stuff anyway, it's not gonna be used on a daily basis.If for some reason it doesn't work out I can buy dies and have no regrets.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Aluminum will wold up fine depending on how much you use it. The biggest draw back is if you have something stuck to a tube, when you bend it it will embed into the aluminum and can leave marks in future bends.
Reply:HEY..... THIS  is a very good post, thanks for the learn.  Something new to add to my book. Nothing I'd try alone but very interesting pics and info.   Thanks500 AMP AIRCO TIG LINCOLN PT185 100% DC @ 128 AMP-WTFSPEED GLASS 9002X MILLER THUNDERBOLT 225HOBBIEST TURNED WELDING JUNKIE8 2ND FIRECAT - SNOWMOBILE RACE CHASSIS FABRICATORPRIDE IS WHAT MAKES YOUR WORK SO GOOD
Reply:Joe, I am watching this thread very closely- you have my total attention. Thank you for posting this, it looks amazing.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Yup, thanks for the pics, I'm jumping in just to stay up to date with the project.If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:Joe,Definitely put steel bushings on the holes.  Plain home-cast aluminum will be soft and will wear too fast on the holes.  After all the effort to make the pattern and cast and assemble the die, I wouldn't want to have to recast the die again too soon just because the first one wore out fast.Nice job with your Bondo fillet.  You could get a router bit to cut the fillet for 1-1/2 inch tube for about $25 on-line, but for anything bigger in fillet/tube size I think would have to be custom ($$) and/or tough to find.  And a s-l-o-w strong router for the big diameter cutter.
Reply:Well, I didn't manage to make alot of progress this week. We're busy at work, and my son had baseball tournaments going on.I did get a few minutes to finish sanding, and shoot some primer on the pattern. I also cut up a honda engine for donor metal.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HI also cut up a honda engine for donor metal.
Reply:Thanks. This is a learning experience for me too. My dad has done lots of casting, but I was only a kid the last time he used that furnace. I'm finding it all very interesting, so I thought I'd try to share as much detail as possible. A whole new world is opening up in my mind. Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:I have long waited to see someone cast a die. With dies so expensive, I wonder why people aren't doing this. Keep the pics coming, Joe!!
Reply:Very cool idea and project.  These are the things that can make you a pretty good chunk of change on the side!  Do not close your eyes to the opportunity.  If the normal dies are 200, and you charge 100 each; you could make some decent change.  I have been doing these things with Corvettes for the last 9years and have funded all my racing, welding and many other things.  Get a nitch your good at and enjoy making money and its a win/win situation.  There will be those that try to knock you down for doing it, but just stay the course and ignore the ignorant ones.  Very cool project you have going there.  I did some sand casting at College (PSU Mechanical engineering) when I was attending engineering classes, but can't remember anything but having a bad hang-over for this class every Friday morning.  So how do you put the model you made into the sand, and create the cavity  that you pour the molten material into?  I know they use foam that disolves and that makes sense to me, but the wood will not disolve...the same way.  Can you explain this to me.  Best Times with 434 Naturally Aspirated Vette60 - 1.261/8 -  6.37@ 107.25 MPH 1/4 - 10.08 & 134.9MPH1/4 - 9.60@144MPH
Reply:I like the work, I especially like the home make forge. I was looking at your die and was thinking that it looks allot like a electrical EMT bender. Could you adapt a bender to make the die? for example I know you can pick up benders for fairly cheap and I am sure it could be converted some how...I have always had to make things work with no money or very little material, so using one item to do a  similar job comes up allot.Keep posting pics, great stuff."I'm really easy to get along with once you people learn to see it my way.""I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter."
Reply:I didn't get to make any progress this week either.  Too dang busy.skidwnit, What I am doing is old-fashioned sandcasting. The pattern will be attached to the matchplate in the pic above. The flask is placed on top of the matchplate, filled with sand, and packed. Then I'll flip the flask over, fill the other half of the flask with sand around the sprue (where you pour in the molten al) pattern and vents. Then remove the sprue and vent patterns, remove the top half of the flask, remove the matchplate and pattern. The two halves of the flask are then put back together and filled with molten aluminum.There is a little more to it than that, I'll post details when I get that far.As for selling them... Nah... Although if it works out well and anyone here wants one I would be willing to pour them one for cheap, as it will be an easy task. All the drilling for the pivot holes and drilling/tapping to attach the two halves will be up to them though.I'm pretty sure that EMT has different O.D.'s than tubing. At any rate, making the pattern was extremely easy, likely easier than adapting anything.I'll try to make some time for this during the following week. We've been working late, even had to work saturday. On top of that, my son's been playing in every local baseball tournament. It's hard to find time.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:I too am looking forward to seeing your progress and results...I own a furnace and sandcasting equipment as well, and if your dies turn out nicely, then I believe that I'll take the time and attempt what you are doing.Will you be pouring into green sand, petro bond, or someother casting sand product ? Cheers !Graham-Graham-Mechanical EngineerAutosport Mechanic/Fabricator
Reply:I don't know the commercial name of the sand I have. I've got a 50 gallon carboard drum full of oiled black sand. It came from a friend of dad's at a local foundry. It is some really nice, fine stuff.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Alright! it's time to get the priorities straight. Personal stuff first, real job second. LOL!Can't wait to see how it turns out. "Every choice you make will effect at least one other person"
Reply:Any updates, Joe? I was in your neck of the woods today. I took my family for a day trip to Chattanooga. It had been 25 years since I had been there and for my wife and kids, it was their first trip. Around 5pm, there was an crash involving multiple vehicles and what looked to be an overturned crane on the westbound side of I-24.Updates tomorrow, hopefully.That crash screwed up traffic here in Fort Oglethorpe bad. All the trucks ended up detouring right through town, complete nightmare.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Well I made a little progress today. I put the furnace all back together and fired it up. The blower had a dent in it, causing the fan to hit the side wall. It took me a little while to straighten it out, but she's running smooth as silk right now. I'm gonna try to pour some aluminum tomorrow.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Well, i ran into a minor setback. I was unsure if the crucible I have was big enough so I calculated the weight of the final casting. The die half will weigh about 4lbs. My crucible holds right at 4lbs of aluminum, but I need enough to fill the sprue and vent too. I'll have to find a big piece of pipe and make a new crucible. I'm off to my buddy's scrap pile now.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Did ya make the new crucible?
Reply:Man! This is an awesome thread. Thanks for sharing. Pretty neat how you used the bondo and the sand-paper pipe to shape.
Reply:Finally made some progress!I thought I'd try a test pour to get the feel of things. I just made some depressions in the sand an poured some ingots.That went pretty well so I started making my mold.Next post...Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Here is the drag after I flipped it over, with the pattern still in place.Then the cope was attached and packed with sand. I used two wooden dowels for the sprues.The flask was then taken back apart so the pattern could be removed. You can see whee I had some issues around the outside edge.Put the flask back together and filled it with molten aluminum.Next post...Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Here's what I ended up with.I was kinda suprised that it turned out this well. After cutting off the sprues and cleaning it up a bit it should look OK. Now I have to pour the other half and the follow bar. Hopefully I'll get that done in the next few days.This is alot of fun guys! I think I've got another hobby.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Looks GREAT Joe - amazing job! I'm curious - did you pour the AL slow or fast?John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I tried to pour slow, but I slipped a little a couple of times.Here's a pic of it with the wood pattern, after a little cleanup. My edge came out a little ragged in a couple of small spots. I think I could have rammed the sand a little better to prevent that. Hopefully the other half will come out cleaner.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Cool project. Looks like it should work well.My Photos on Flickr
Reply:very cool ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Here's the other half before any cleanup. It came out nicer than the first one. It took less than an hour to make this one. Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Joe,This is coming out pretty nice.  I have to say, I have never had any interest in casting until reading though your post.  Very cool.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HHere's the other half before any cleanup. It came out nicer than the first one. It took less than an hour to make this one.
Reply:Simply amazing. There's got to be something special about the sand tho? To get it to pack and hold it's shape and all?
Reply:Thanks guys.The sand came from a local foundry some 20 years ago. It's some good stuff, extremely fine. It's oil bonded, the oil makes it pack really hard and stick together. William, I've thought about sandwiching it between steel plates too. We'll see if it can hold up without it first though. If something breaks I can always make a new one.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:absolutely wild!!! maybe someday I'll have the time. "Every choice you make will effect at least one other person"
Reply:Are you going to cast a follower die too?Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:thanks for the info
Reply:My dad has an old furnace like that. I don't think he built it though. Now i'm gonna have to ask him about it and see if he is skilled with it. I can think of lots of things i would love to cast.  It would make my life of fabrication a lot easier.  Great post! It has really been and eye opener.
Reply:By the way, the screwdrive in the flask pics looks like a golden oldie.
Reply:Originally Posted by QuciferAre you going to cast a follower die too?
Reply:Hey Joe....any more progress with the bender and dies ?-Graham-Mechanical EngineerAutosport Mechanic/Fabricator
Reply:yeah, I am anxiously following this thread