Add some bigger 7024 to the mix?

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Last weekend I ran a lot of 5/32 inch 7024 and so I have to buy more.I was considering picking up some 7024 in 3/16 to add to the mix, in addition to standard 5/32.I will use it on 1/4 and 3/8 inch steel. The problem I noticed is esab recommends 250 to 290 amps for a 3/16 inch 7024.My little rig only makes 230 amps AC and 180 to 230 amps DC, obviously 230 is less than 250 but,,,Esab recommends at least 180 amps for 5/32 inch 7024. I found 160 amps AC was plenty hot, even too hot a lot of times on 1/4 inch steel. Only time I used recomended amps was to burn out a few slag inclusions. The way 5/32 inch 7024 rod ran with 160 AC amps on 1/4 inch steel I figured 200 AC amps would be way more than enough for 3/16 rod on 1/4 inch steel. Maybe not?I ran 3/16 and maybe even some 7/32 inch 7024 many years ago on an old Ideal Arc and it ran them fine and I dont remember cranking it up to 250 amps all that often.How well would up to 230 amps (AC or DC) work with a 3/16 inch 7024 rod on say 1/4 and 3/8 steel?Mid way through my last little project I was putting down electrodes one after another and noticed my machine was getting a little warm on the 160 amp AC setting and had a thought. To make life a little easier on the machine I might try running 145 amps DCEP to get the same effect as 160 amps AC or run 160 amps DCEP and move a little faster, but since 160 amps AC was working flawlessly I didnt want to change it up half way through and have to go back and grind down then burn out a bunch of slag inclusions. I just got lunch a little early and let the machine cool off.   But I know giving the machine a half hour to cool down is not always going to be an option.What do you think?Turn down the AC amps a little and switch to DC and keep going at the same pace?orSwitch over to DC and go faster and hope you reach your stopping point that much faster, hopefully before the rig catches on fire?old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:WWCDWhat would ChuckE do?
Reply:Lets see picts of your welds. Usually if guys feel they are "too hot", but the amps are below the manufacturers suggested settings, they are doing something wrong ( poor welds), or they are holding a fairly large arc to compensate for the lower settings.As far as your max amps on your machine, keep in mind your duty cycle up near max on little home owner buzz boxes is pretty low. While tranny type stick machines are fairly robust, excessive use past duty cycle is one of the things that can and will kill them. It's called "abuse".Your car might tow a trailer, but towing a heavily loaded one for hours on end nonstop, up mountains in the blazing heat, as fast as you can go, is asking for the car to overheat. Ignore the fact the car is over heating and you are going to kill something, engine or tranny... Same thing happens with welders. Just because a machine doesn't turn itself off doesn't mean you haven't exceeded it's duty cycle and aren't doing accumulative damage to it.Stopping to let a machine cool isn't all that hard. Just use that time to chip welds, fab and prep parts and so on. If you can't for whatever reason do this, then you most likely need to get a bigger machine. You either abide by the duty cycle or at some point the machine is going to make you do so. Permanently. Then you are going to be down for a lot more than a half hour most likely and your project is going to end up costing a whole lot more.1/8" and 5/32" rods lay down quite a bit of material, especially in 7024. I haven't met all that many home hobbyists who have a need to use much bigger rods on average, especially on "thin" metal like 1/4". If nothing else, smaller rods not only reduce you max amps to increase your duty cycle, but the added chipping helps give you more "down time" to allow the fan on the machine to cool down the transformer..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:i guess machines vary, i run 1/8" 7024 on 150 amps ac and 3/16" 7024 on 1/4" steel seems like overkill. are you having problems with warpage?i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:It would seem you are using an oversize rod for the thickness. As a result, you have to run it lower than the recommended amps for that rod.Why overwork your machine when a smaller rod will do the job?Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWLets see picts of your welds. Usually if guys feel they are "too hot", but the amps are below the manufacturers suggested settings, they are doing something wrong ( poor welds), or they are holding a fairly large arc to compensate for the lower settings
Reply:You are using 3/16 7024 on 1/4 plate that's over kill but if your machine over heats doing that i would go to smaller rod ...No sense burning up the machine We used that back before wire feed and on thick fillet welds and you have to tune it a little if you turn it down too far the slag will over run your puddlenever pull the rod and never long arc it ...turn it up a little ....If you run it to hot or long arc it the slag will have bubbles in ityou got to let it burn at it's own paceBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Ok I will stick with 5/32 inch.I see 3/16 inch 7024 kind of cheap occasionally from people trying to get rid of it cause they dont know what to do with it.I try to stay on the look out for cheap materials I might be able to use.As far as warpage goes there is none its as straight as when I tacked it together with the mig and I even welded both sides on most of it. I was trying to prevent warp by running the lowest setting and moving right along, that why I had a few slag inclusions,  tried running 145 amps for a time and it didnt work so good. I ground out the slag and some of the good weld at 145 amps and it got down it got down into the base metal just fine where there were no slag inclusions. I will get some pictures tomorrow. I didnt have any bubbly slag any where. But i have seen it plenty of times, but not on this one.Maybe they didnt intend for guys to run 5/32 inch 7024 on think stuff like 1/4 inch plate. When I am working on 3/8 inch I always run 190 or 210 amps and it goes together like a peanutbutter and jelly sandwich.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:I had seen the title to that video of chuck and thought "3/16 inch 7024, and me, ha never", hadnt seen it till now.I would like to get a hold of a sample of them, 2 or 3 pounds so 2 or 3 rods maybe.An 18 inch long 3/16 inch thick 7024 rod would be perfect for when its cold out and I dont want to be out side and I dont have to worry about the machine getting too hot, or use it as that last rod before lunch or last rod of the day.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:5/32" jet wire is probably still too much rod for 1/4" steel. try 1/8" and see if there's a difference. your machine will thank you.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:What Doc, Minnsesota, DSW, Mad, Kill & Squirmy said!!!!I've been on a 7024 "kick" lately and I love it.   Because my little buzzbox can't go over 225A, I'm stuck with 5/32" electrodes for 7024.  Why anyone would want to use anything bigger than 1/8 7024 on 1/4" is beyond me.  In fact, I'd rather use 7014 for 1/4" steel.  Also, your amps are set way too low for the 5/32" at around "160."   140-160 is 1/8" electrode size heat range from what I've played with.   When I got into the 5/32, it's 200-225 amps.  Otherwise like others had mentioned, you're not getting any penetration worth a darn.  It's like your laying down a pretty mig weld that is really rather weak.  I don't mess with 7024 until I weld up 3/8" or bigger and that's when I'm making custom steel rifle targets.  But duty cycle is another issue.  I hope somebody here can maybe "fix" or clarify what I'm tying say next.  From what I understand, a machine that puts out 225a max on AC, is NOT the same as the DC side of things on the same machine.  For instance, I incorrectly once thought that if I went down to the max DC setting of "125," that would somehow "ease up" my duty cycle from the 225A AC setting (Lincoln buzzbox) I was just on.   Seems that the DC settings on the Lincoln,s, Miller Thunderbolts and Hobart Stickman models produce roughly half the DC power output of what their own AC power setting is  at.   So, setting my machine at its highest setting (AC:225 or DC:125), the machine's duty cycle is still the same.  Switching to DC-125 doesn't keep the machine any "cooler" than if I ran on AC:225.   I hope I made sense here and maybe someone else can correct me if I gave out wrong info on the matter.  This is how it was explained to me once.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Mad welder,Where's your pictures???Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopMad welder,Where's your pictures???
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcWhat Doc, Minnsesota, DSW, Mad, Kill & Squirmy said!!!!I've been on a 7024 "kick" lately and I love it.   Because my little buzzbox can't go over 225A, I'm stuck with 5/32" electrodes for 7024.  Why anyone would want to use anything bigger than 1/8 7024 on 1/4" is beyond me.  In fact, I'd rather use 7014 for 1/4" steel.  Also, your a mps are set way too low for the 5/32" at around "160."   140-160 is 1/8" electrode size heat range from what I've played with.   When I got into the 5/32, it's 200-225 amps.  Otherwise like others had mentioned, you're not getting any penetration worth a darn.  It's like your laying down a pretty mig weld that is really rather weak.    I don't mess with 7024 until I weld up 3/8" or bigger and that's when I'm making custom steel rifle targets.  But duty cycle is another issue.  I hope somebody here can maybe "fix" or clarify what I'm tying say next.  From what I understand, a machine that puts out 225a max on AC, is NOT the same as the DC side of things on the same machine.  For instance, I incorrectly once thoug ht that if I went down to the max DC setting of "125," that would somehow "ease up" my duty cycle from the 225A AC setting (Lincoln buzzbox) I was just on.   Seems that the DC settings on the Lincoln,s, Miller Thunderbolts and Hobart Stickman models produce roughly half the DC power output of what their own AC power setting is  at.   So, setting my machine at its highest setting (AC:225 or DC:125), the machine's duty cycle is still the same.  Switching to DC-125 doesn't keep the machine any "cooler" than if I ran on AC:225.   I hope I made sense here and maybe someone else can correct me if I gave out wrong info on the matter.  This is how it was explained to me once.
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4I custom built my DC side. I know it doesnt make life any easier on the AC side.I can run rough DC straight off the rectifiers with an AC compatable rod. It runs a lot like AC with a little better arc stability and marginally smoother. Or run it through the inductors for a nice true smooth DC arc, reducing the output amps up to 10% depending on the setting.I was wondering if DC would make the welding process more efficient.
Reply:True I guess I should have said over built.I made it so the DC system in this buzz box can act as a slave system for an AC machine up to 300 amps.The 9 rectifiers in the array can run all day at 230 amps all day long, becaus they are on 3 large heat sinks with their own fan.The only thing I dont know about is the inductors, but they have no problem running 1/8 rod after 1/8 inch rod almost no stop and only barely start to get warm after doing that for 45 minutes.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:PicsEverything was fillet butt welds, 90 and 45 degree fillet welds. Attached Imagesold Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Man I just love burn'n 7024's.  They are the perfect rod to train somebody on, almost immediately.  They are just a good confidence builder.  The neighbor kid came over two weeks ago and asked if he could watch me weld.  I said, "sure, but you're gonna have to give it a go too."   His eyes lit up and after fitting him with a coat, gloves and an auto darkening helmet, I gave him three minutes of quick instruction.  I put  a 1/8" 7024 in the stinger and told him to just "drag it" slowly.  He did and his first weld looked like a pro!  He took the piece of angle iron home with him.  One day, he'll come back and the "real world" will set in.  I'll give him some 6010 or 6013 and he'll see that stick welding isn't too easy after all on the initial learning stages.  Those rods aren't as easy nor forgiving as 7024's are.  . But, he'll always have his first piece of steel to refer to as to what a nice weld should look like, regardless of the classification of the electrode.Last edited by SuperArc; 05-27-2014 at 11:29 PM.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:I broke down and picked up some 18 inch long ESAB 3/16 inch 7024.I was hesitant at first. Burned some up and man they are nice.The machine has no problem burning these things on AC or DCEP w/o inductance on higher settings.This is the no screwing around put stuff together rod.The cooling modifications I did to the craftsman that seemed like over kill initially have turned out to be well worth it.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder