6011 Root with 70xx cap?

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Hey guys,So I am getting back into stick welding.  I mig basically everything up to around 3/8" (if I can), and I will stick everything thicker than that.  (Yes I know there are always exceptions and I only do this stuff as/for my hobbies)Keep in mind, everything I post will be geared towards my ac only thunderbolt.I don't need "technical definition" answers.  But I would like slightly more than 70xx is "stronger" than 60xx because one is 70k vs 60k.  My question is..  Which method is "better" and how/why is it "better?"  I read online and it seems that (in general) people seem to prefer a root pass with something like 6011 and cap it with 7014 or 7018ac.  Let's say I am gonna weld a 1/2" T-joint.  And I am gonna run 1/8" or 3/16" rods.  Why do people recommend running a 6011 for the root pass and then capping with 7014/7018?  Why not just run 7014/7018?I did a 3/8" t-joint and ran one side with 1/8" 6011 and the other side (when cool)  with 1/8" 7018.  And I cut it and etched it, and the 7018 didn't penetrate hardly at all compared to the 6011.  (I was running appropriate amperage for each rod)So with that being said, I have seen youtube videos where chucke2009 did a break test (using a sledge) and the 7018 held up much better than the 6010 or 6011.  So assuming I will be doing multiple passes (which I will), which method is better and why?  I understand that better penetration into the root (for the same size weld) will be a bigger throat.  And a bigger throat means stronger.  But is there a strength advantage to running (let's say) a single 6011 for a root pass and 2 passes with 7014/7018 to cap it, vs just running 3 passes with 7014/7018?  Would it need to be more like 6 passes to get a similar throat thickness to using a 6011 as a root?Am I even on the right track or am I out in left field here all by my lonesome?
Reply:And I tried searching, but I couldn't find anything actually answering my question.
Reply:In my experience, 6010/11 is mostly used for root passes in open butt welds. Filling the gap type of deal. 6010/11 is a fast freezing rod which makes it easier (depending on who u ask) to fill that gap.  Hope that helps.
Reply:So let's say it's a decent fit up.  And reason to still use 6010/6011?
Reply:If the joint is tight and clean 7018 root and cap.  If it's an open joint or rusty / contaminated and can't be prepped 6010 root and 7018 cap.REAL TRUCKS DON'T HAVE SPARK PLUGS
Reply:what are you trying to weld? It is something critical that if it breaks lives will be at risk, or is it just fun project stuff? The whole 6010/7018 thing is a pipe welding technique that assures you get complete penetration all the way through the other side of the pipe (key hole, whip and pause, etc.). If you are not welding on an oil pipeline or a nuclear boiler, I am not sure you need to bother with both 6010 and 7018. You could probably just use one or the other. Most people here seem to like 7018, because it is low hydrogen, greater ductility, etc. etc. I am not sure any of that matters for fun projects, and especially since most people don't really keep it in a rod oven to ensure it stays low hydrogen.  For most stuff that isn't going to put people's lives at risk, a 6010 is probably just as good (think things like smokers, tables, etc.). If you have proper joint fit up and create a proper weld bead profile, on properly cleaned and prepared metal, you could co with just 7018 all day long. I like 7018 because I just find it easier to weld with than say 6013, and and it produces a more aesthetically pleasing bead than 6010/6011So long answer short, depending on what you are welding, it probably doesn't matter what rod you use. what matters more is metal prep, fit up and making a good weld.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:reguardless of the fittup,   you want the inside flush or slightly convex, no crevices or abnormal buildup etc, that would effect/flow/turbulance etc.- you dont want erosion or obstruction from whatever is flowing through your pipe.   doing that from outside is much easier w/ xx10, than xx18 due to the characteristics of the rods.
Reply:You are talking 2 different weld applicationsT joints can be run any way you would like to with any welding rod you want to use .The other way you are talking of doing, is a structural weld application So if you are not doing structural you could weld it up with either rodtrailblazer 302thunderbolt ac dc machine Hobart fluxcoreAHP tig 200x 2015
Reply:Few years ago I did a series of fillet weld break tests, here are the results. 6013 broke with only 3-blows of a 4-pound hammer. 6011 = 8-blows.7014 = 10-blows.6010 5P-Plus = 10-blows.7018 cold never seen the inside of an oven = 18-blows.7018 right out of the oven = 23-blows.L-56 = 29-blows. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Interesting info CEP.And it isn't "structural" per say.  Things like bumpers for my truck, etc.Let's say that I was welding a giant tow hook to a 1/2" thick piece of plate for example.  It's not "structural" but it needs to be dang strong.  And it's freshly ground plate and hook.  But no beveling or preheat. Like I said before, I just can't find a good answer because people say both ways.But it looks like CEP has some good info there.  It sorta goes along the same lines of chucke2009's break test as well.  So that makes me feel better.And Thanks for the info guys.  Looks like (as most of you said) I am not doing code work, so either would be perfectly fine.  That is basically what I was hoping to hear.  And yeah, dirty metal I'd run the 6011.
Reply:Proper joint prep is the key to any good weld. Nothing in the world wrong with running 6010, or 6011 for the root pass, then cap with 7018. Then again there is nothing in the world wrong with running 7018 for the root pass. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:If I ever get a weld to have the slag peel on its own, I will be taking probably 150 different angles and posting them all over the net.  ha ha
Reply:Originally Posted by yamahawr200If I ever get a weld to have the slag peel on its own, I will be taking probably 150 different angles and posting them all over the net.  ha ha
Reply:Originally Posted by yamahawr200If I ever get a weld to have the slag peel on its own, I will be taking probably 150 different angles and posting them all over the net.  ha ha
Reply:Oh it’s easy! I’m just a hobbyist my self.
Reply:ha ha I get great looking beads that I barely touch and the slag falls, but it doesn't remove itself yet..  ha ha
Reply:to me, 7018 is always the best choice. nobody can ever fault you for 7018. rusty, painty, clean, high c low c, it is the best you have in your arsenalunless you are dealing with an open root situation, where 6010/11 would be a NECESSITY.  6010 and 7018 are the only rods i have ever run, and i have welded all kinds of crap. specialty stuff like 308 and Ni rods being exceptions.bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Most of the time things are really generalized because although it makes sense to people in the trade, it can difficult if not impossible trying to explain why different rods and techniques are used or can be advantageous. For example, 6010 would be used on a more critical job than 7014... Blasphemy! 7014 has a higher tensile strength. 6010 is designed for dynamic loading while 7014 isn't and that's more important than tensile strength in this simple example. Another example, 11018 is stronger than 7018. On T-1 steel it certainly is but if you use it on a lesser strength steel it may crack because it doesn't "give" as much as the base metal. 6010/6011 isn't affected by slag as much as other rods is one of it's advantages for doing root passes and it makes it easier to see and/or hear what you're doing.
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961Carl there ought to be a rule that you can't say that anymore...
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPStarting to think it would have been cheaper to take up drinking, instead of welding!
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerbillI aspire to reach the level of hobbiest.