SS mig + alternative gas help suggestion, please.

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Hello all. This is a little long winded, but I want to alleviate any questions you may have of me, regarding my questions.  I can't get Trimix from my LWS  and they offered no help, as I'm just a "little guy."  The lone clerk behind the counter seemed to be too bothered with me while he surfed the internet.  I also have to travel a huge distance for the next nearest LWS outlet.   So, I went to the Lincoln "bible" and read about the 75% argon + 25% C02 stainless alternative to Trimix. (Wondering why the clerk didn't suggest that alternative to me? ).  The book also mentions that the 75/25 Argon/C02 mix can only be used for "single pass," as the C02 "affects the corrosion resistance of multipass welds made with short circuit transfer."  In the notes section, it says that a 98% Argon/2% oxygen mix can also be used, but it doesn't explain if  that mix is better, worse or indifferent than the 75/25 stuff.  confused:So, can anyone here please give me some advice on what your personal alternative gas and general purpose SS wire for short circuit transfer would be?     I'm thinking any "309" wire is good enough for outdoor BBQ's and stainless patio furniture fixes, maybe???    Ive heard that in a pinch,  er70s mild steel wire on the stainless is doable, but not for me.  My projects require true stainless wire as the  stuff is around a pool and it all gets wet.   The welds don't have to look so pretty with heat affected discoloring etc, but they can't rust. I'm just a home (play) welder, wanting to modify some thin 18-20ga stainless BBQ's and shelving around the pool.   I have a large amount of this THIN sheet stainless to weld so SMAW is also of the question for me.  This is NOT for any type of structural life-support welding stuff by the way.  Thanks for your advice and recommendations. Equipment:Miller 211 (obviously limited to short circuit transfer).A Liberal is someone who lives in a gated community with private security,  but says that a boarder fence won't work and people don't need guns for self protection.
Reply:If you use C25 to weld stainless it will looked like bird poop burned with a torch.What I did was mix my own SS gas. Used pure argon, and my CO2 bottle tee'd together. Set the argon to 20cfhr and set the CO2 to where it barely moves the flow meter ball off its base.If the weld stacks up high, not wanting to wet out or acts like you aren't getting enough heat, turn up the CO2. If the weld gets messy and dirty and pops turn down CO2. After about 2 or 3 practice welds you will get it dialed in.The stainless Ar/CO2 mix is made up of argon with 2.5% to 5% CO2. Adding a tiny bit of CO2 made a huge difference over trying to use pure argon.I thought the Ar/O2 mix was for SS spray transfer?  I mix my own gas because I dont weld enough SS to justify having another cylinder around.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:mig/mag weldinggas 98% Argon/2% co2      90%Argon/10%co2 if it is less than 15 % active gas inside.
Reply:Okay guys, so I should go get a 98% argon mix with a 2 or 2.5% C02 mix then?  Do most  LWS readily sell that formula as an alternative to the awesome and EXPENSIVE  helium mix?   I don't want multiple cylinders, nor do I want to mix my own gas.  I'm terribly lazy when it comes to playing with chemistry.  If i wer a professional welder, I'd get what I needed, regardless of cost. I don't mind having a C25 cylinder for mild steel and just one single cylinder for ss.   I just don't want two cylinders for ss as the costs add up and I'm broke. Maybe I could take my existing c25 cylinder and a 100% pure argon cylinder and mix those two wih a T-fitting as suggested by "Mad Welder 4."   Ahhhhh, but then I'd still need to buy another regulator.    I really just want one regulator and just to swap out single cylinders.  Maybe I'll have no choice but to buy the trim is and drive over 100 miles to find it.  Provided a LWS will even sell it to me. There's gotta be a better alternative for what I'm looking for. I truly value all this feedback guys!Last edited by MoonshineMetals; 06-14-2014 at 05:57 PM.A Liberal is someone who lives in a gated community with private security,  but says that a boarder fence won't work and people don't need guns for self protection.
Reply:Argon98%/CarbonDioxide2% is a very good choice for SS sheet metal. You need less than 5% as not to contaminated the metal, but at least 2% to arc properly. I have used it and it works very well. Ed Craig developed Stainless-mix in the 80s. Read up on it.http://www.weldreality.com/MIG_welding_gases.htmLast edited by shovelon; 06-14-2014 at 06:51 PM.Reason: oldtimersWeld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I'm running 75/25 argon helium,it seems to work well and is good for tig too. 80cf cost me 2$ more than pure argon. Seems that it would be a good option for you unfortunately it's not available at all LWS stores. Good luck!Thermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:Here's a link that may answer some questions. http://www.linde-gas.com/html2pdfser...t=varigon_he30Thermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:If your LWS is an Airgas dealer, their mixture which is 97% Ar, 3% CO2 is called "Stainmix Gold". Other distributors probably have something similar. Try to avoid Argon/Oxygen mixtures; they make a very fluid puddle which makes out-of-position welding difficult.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Originally Posted by Austin BennettI'm running 75/25 argon helium,it seems to work well and is good for tig too. 80cf cost me 2$ more than pure argon. Seems that it would be a good option for you unfortunately it's not available at all LWS stores. Good luck!
Reply:I will I'll set it up. It does work not ideal but will get you by with the right settings.Thermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:Well here if is, I needed a little more voltage or thinner stock but it is what it is 19.5v 240 ipm 18cfh 75/25 ar/he 1/4" ss 308l .030  wire.  i know it looks like fidos butt. But you asked for it  Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:Originally Posted by Austin BennettWell here if is, I needed a little more voltage or thinner stock but it is what it is 19.5v 240 ipm 18cfh 75/25 ar/he 1/4" ss 308l .030  wire.  i know it looks like fidos butt. But you asked for it  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by Austin BennettHere's a link that may answer some questions. http://www.linde-gas.com/html2pdfser...t=varigon_he30
Reply:I bet you could contaminate that Ar/He tig gas with tiny bit of CO2 and it would work really well.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonHmmm, better than I expected. Never tried that myself.
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4I bet you could contaminate that Ar/He tig gas with tiny bit of CO2 and it would work really well.
Reply:I'll get a y fitting and blend in some 75/25 ar/co2 I will let you know how it goes.Thermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:@ shovelon - heard the same about 98Ar / 2CO2, vice the higher-priced "tri-mix" with He.  You have any images of MIG results on SS using the Ar-CO2??  Never ran GMAW on stainless.  Yet.  Interested in seeing some burn-in.  Mahalo."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by Austin BennettI'll get a y fitting and blend in some 75/25 ar/co2 I will let you know how it goes.
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4Yes blend say 15cfhr of the tig Ar/He mix and 5cfhr of standard C25 mig gas.Please let us know how it goes. I have the Ar/He/CO2 mix rig but have not tried helium mixtures yet. I just dont weld stainless that much any more.
Reply:I used 75/25 (Ar/CO2), .035 308L, short circuit mig to tack this stainless steel screen wire into these stainless steel frames (I used tig to build the frames).  It was kind of a rush job and that's the best I had on hand to work with.  It was a little bit of a PITA to do but it ended up working out OK.  My understanding of why mig welds made with 75/25 have lower (but not always unacceptable) corrosion resistence (especially in multipass situations) is that there's to much free carbon available to contaminate the weld puddle from that much CO2 in the mix.   The carbon acts to tie up the Chrome leaving it unavailable to form Chrome Oxides.
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ shovelon - heard the same about 98Ar / 2CO2, vice the higher-priced "tri-mix" with He.  You have any images of MIG results on SS using the Ar-CO2??  Never ran GMAW on stainless.  Yet.  Interested in seeing some burn-in.  Mahalo.
Reply:Moonshine,I've got to say that for the type of work that it sounds like you're wanting to do with that thin stainless sheet that TIG welding it would be a far better choice.   Not saying you won't be able to get some things done with mig but for making stuff look good (and having good corrosion resistance) tig will be a whole lot less frustration and aggravation than trying to mig weld it.
Reply:Originally Posted by 4956Moonshine,I've got to say that for the type of work that it sounds like you're wanting to do with that thin stainless sheet that TIG welding it would be a far better choice.   Not saying you won't be able to get some things done with mig but for making stuff look good (and having good corrosion resistance) tig will be a whole lot less frustration and aggravation than trying to mig weld it.
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...-or-Stargon-SS"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-GyorgyiI got the parts now I need the time. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:Ok so here's the best so far. 19.5 v 335ipm 10cfh 75/25 ar/he and 75/25 ar/co2 barely registering on the guage. I can see non oxidized metal at the toes but the crown is lacking pretty colors. I'll keep screwing with it to see if I can get a cleaner weld. It is much smoother with the co2 and almost looks like a decent weld. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:Do I need a different regulator for trimix, stainmix or a 97/3% Argon/C02 gas mix?A Liberal is someone who lives in a gated community with private security,  but says that a boarder fence won't work and people don't need guns for self protection.
Reply:If you have a co2 regulator you will need an adaptor to fit the argon mixes. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:Austin,You're not going to get those pretty colors on the bead like you did with just the 75/25 Ar/He mix.   What you will get is better weld characteristics and bead profile.  It's one of those situations in welding where you have to make a trade off.   I like having all those pretty colors also when ever possible but some times it just not practical, economical or over all the best thing to put achieving them first.I think that's a pretty decent bead you've got in that last picture.   There's a whole lot of stainless steel out there in industry held together with ones just like it (and some with ones a whole lot uglier).   All you really need to do to that bead is give it some post weld clean up with a good wire brushing.  If you're working on something where maximum corrosion resistance is important the welds (and sometimes the whole part) should get passivated.   A good experiment for you would be to wire brush that last practice piece / bead and then throw it out side (or in what ever environment that what you're going to be building will be placed in) and see what happens to it.   My guess is that as long as you don't get it contaminated with any carbon steel particles it will quickly form a chrome oxide layer that will keep it nice and shinny for quite a while.   Originally Posted by Austin BennettOk so here's the best so far. 19.5 v 335ipm 10cfh 75/25 ar/he and 75/25 ar/co2 barely registering on the guage. I can see non oxidized metal at the toes but the crown is lacking pretty colors. I'll keep screwing with it to see if I can get a cleaner weld. It is much smoother with the co2 and almost looks like a decent weld. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk