STARTWIN: Are they worth it?

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Hello,Anything advertised on TV doesn't atract my attention at all but lately I came across an advert about the STARTWIN tool. Looks like a grinder but uses two carbide tipped discs rotating in oposite directions. Doesn't spark much and makes bits instead of dust. Seems to glide through wood, steel, aluminum, etc. They also use some kind of lubricating sticks (seems like wax) that are to be used while cutting soft metals like copper or aluminum.Not that I do it everyday but anytime I needed to cut through aluminum plate (1/4" or so) I had a hard time with a regular grinder and zip discs. Went through a lot of consumables and took a lot of time. Somehow a jigsaw with metal blade didn't work very well either and was noisy. I have a circular saw for wood but I haven't had the chance to try it out yet.I just browsed through Northerntool and that kind of saws go there by the name of Twin Cut Power saws.Anyone here has any experience with them? Could they be the solution for cutting aluminum? They are supposed to cut also steel but I bet the tips wear out a lot faster.Mikel
Reply:Probably not.  I use these blades for cutting 1/4 aluminum.  They fit my regular 7 1/4 inch circular saw and work great.  Very smooth cut and fast.  [ame="http://www.amazon.com/D0756N-Diablo-Non-Ferrous-Knockout-PermaShield/dp/B00008WQ37/ref=sr_1_24?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1323954516&sr=1-24"]http://www.amazon.com/D0756N-Diablo-Non-Ferrous-Knockout-PermaShield/dp/B00008WQ37/ref=sr_1_24?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1323954516&sr=1-24[/ame]I use these for cutting steel.  Also very smooth fast cutting blade.  Been using the same blade now for almost a year.  Still looks pretty good.[ame="http://www.amazon.com/D0748F-Diablo-Ferrous-Knockout-PermaShield/dp/B00008WQ3B/ref=sr_1_6?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1323954516&sr=1-6"]http://www.amazon.com/D0748F-Diablo-Ferrous-Knockout-PermaShield/dp/B00008WQ3B/ref=sr_1_6?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1323954516&sr=1-6[/ame]
Reply:This subject has come up several times. General opinion was they didn't work well for most.www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=48705www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=53626You can cut alum with a standard carbide saw blade and some wax as a lube. Yorkiepap here does a lot with his table saw. I've done large sheets of 1/8" with my wormdrive and a fine tooth carbide blade ( usually an older 40 tooth blade). I'd rather use a dedicated metal cutting circular saw, but I haven't needed one enough to justify the purchase. The dedicated steel cutting carbide circular saw blades would work well also. Wear good PPE if you do this. There will be a lot of sharp chips flying everywhere and take your time, don't force the cut.  I wear both a face shield and safety goggles on top of my standard glasses as well as usually putting on my leathers. Only have the minimum amount of blade  needed going thru the material.The problem with zip wheels and alum is they clog up. I know they make special grinding wheels for alum, not sure about zip wheels. The alum grinding wheels brake down faster IIRC so they don't load..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW covered it fairly well. Just remember to wear hearing protection... it's loud. +1 for the leathers... keep the top buttoned... nothing worse than hot chips down your shirt. I've never used a dual saw but it would reason that you really need a saw with a fence or guide. As with all saws... your cut is only as straight as your guide. I cut all my aluminum plate stock with either the worm drive skilsaw or the table saw using standard carbide blades. I often use a clamp on guide with the skilsaw. I cut round stock and such with the miter saw. I use the router to cut circles and odd shapes. I generally use a downward spiral on the router if I'm all the way through, this keeps the router grounded and the chips out of my face.A while back I did have to slice a large aluminum casting down the middle for inspection. It was way too big for the band saw... so I used the worm drive... it cut it like butter. Parts of the casting were 1.5" thick. I was concerned about kick back (odd shaped) but made the cut without issue.For steel I have a Milwaukee plate saw. I don't use it a lot as the plasma is faster but it has saved my bacon a few times.
Reply:Craftsman had the patent on one of the first twin cut saws,  I burned up half a dozen of them before selling one it after repeated exchanges/repairs,   the blades would drag against each other even free spinning and burn up the pinion gear with or without lube.   when they work they cut real nice.  I see HF and several other brands now sell a similar product.  If you decide to try one get a HF or Craftsman or something where you can and should by the extended exchange warranty.     every one I had burned up in about 10- 15 mins of use.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250