Tig tungsten questions

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I haves dial arc 250hf.      I have a hole box of airco red band thoriated.    I understand this is for mild steel?  I have read several posts on this but a lot to sift through.    And from what I understand inverter vs transformer you use diff stuff.     Now I'm not looking for unicorn blood here just what will work best to weld ms ss an al     And when to ball or not to with al     I'm hoping a certain Minnesota Dave might chime in I read a lot about that airco.   Also any tips on grinding procedures. Thanks in advance. And sorry for the newbie questions.   I've been reading and old welding book but not much tig info
Reply:One thing to note on thoriated tungsten is that they are mild radioactive, only concern is when grinding them from the dust.Some people prefer a balled tungsten for aluminum and some use sharpened for aluminum.   Kinda a personal preference, try both and see what you like better.  I started using 2% lanthanated and they seem to work fine on everything so far, I have a transformer tig.Jody did a video on tungsten choices and grinding methods.  Check it out on youtube.  Welding tips and tricks.  He's got alot of good tig and welding info.
Reply:Originally Posted by large-human I'm hoping a certain Minnesota Dave might chime in I read a lot about that airco.
Reply:I agree with GoingNowhere - I use thoriated since I have a bunch and have no real complaints.I grind a blunt taper and let it ball as I weld.Sometimes a funny nodule grows on it for AC aluminum, but I just grab another and keep motoring I've experimented with pure tungsten with a balled end since Steve sent me some - no real complaints there either.They weld a little different but are fine too.Thoriated naturally holds up great for steel and stainless. Have fun and see what works for you Edit: Hey thanks Oscar I forgot - it's a 1963 model that is 900 lbs of awesome Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by Going nowhereOne thing to note on thoriated tungsten is that they are mild radioactive, only concern is when grinding them from the dust.
Reply:READ THIS!http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...iated-Tungsten...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThat's just another myth.I had a student PROVE IT with a geiger counter.Zero reading..Took same geiger counter to the filament in a Coleman gas lantern and all sorts of warning bells went off....zap!
Reply:Zap.  Thorium is also in lantern mantles...  Geiger counters measure certain radiation types, usually beta and gamma (xray) I believe.  I took a radiation class a few years back and learned a lot but forgot alot as well.  Thorium is mostly an alpha emitting radiation which is safe unless ingested.  Alpha particles can be blocked with a sheet of paper, our skin is actually a natural barrier against alpha.  But if inhaled or ingested the soft tissue is susceptible to it and it can mess you up.  Tritium is another alpha radiation source which is used in gun sights, safe to wear on your hip for years but don't eat it.  So when grinding it you should wear respiratory ppe.  There are specific alpha radiation detectors.  I use to walk around with several types of small detectors that are used for nuclear accidents or disasters and it was interesting to see what sets them off.   There are many sources of radiation that we are exposed to every day but I would prefer to minimize my exposure when possible.  That's my .02.Use your best judgment and weigh your risk.BenLast edited by Going nowhere; 06-26-2014 at 08:58 PM.
Reply:I had a Dialarc 250HF, a Diversion 180, and a Dynasty 280DX, I have a stack of tungsten. There are discernable differences at high amp densities, but on thinner metal they all work. Pure tends to shrivel into a too big ball sort of quickly. Thoriated is nice, Lanthanated is a good choice. I wouldn't use pure for anything if I had to go out and buy, but I will use it where amperage isn't high. Lanthanated Is what I buy. I probably have 50 ground with a long point. now I have reason to believe a stubby grind is better. Zap's work is much nicer than mine. He uses thoriated.
Reply:I appreciate all the info guys    when I grind  do I grind on side of wheel or in face.   I've seen both ways
Reply:I use the "face", not the side.  Just have to use different spots every now and then and slightly move L↔R so it wears evenly. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Remember to point the tip down when grinding (pointed up it can catch the wheel and shatter and/or go through your hand).Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I grind mine on belt sander with tungsten chucked into drill.  So far so good.  Low speed on drill.
Reply:2% lanthanated is cheap and the best all around, period.I've yet to see someone prove that these super mixes, like E3 and Quad, are actually superior. I'm not a pro, but I find redband to get a bunch of fingers growing on the tip with AC.  That is if I can actually run a long enough bead without dipping it in the Alooominum.
Reply:I bought a DeWalt $120 bench grinder at Tractor Supply. I have a product designed for woodworking, a non slip mat/cushion. I turn the grinder around and lay it down. This puts it in perfect position to grind away from me. I deliberately allow three grooves to form in the stones. The coarse stone is for removing aluminum from the shank of dipped tungsten, and shaping. The fine stone to clean up scratches. I use a cordless drill to hold it.
Reply:Lately I have been using the same red tung for everything that comes across the bench. Most of the time I haven't even put a different grind on it when going from steel to aluminum, just switch the welder to AC and keep right on a weldin.
Reply:Originally Posted by Going nowhereZap.  Thorium is also in lantern mantles...  Geiger counters measure certain radiation types, usually beta and gamma (xray) I believe.  I took a radiation class a few years back and learned a lot but forgot alot as well.  Thorium is mostly an alpha emitting radiation which is safe unless ingested.  Alpha particles can be blocked with a sheet of paper, our skin is actually a natural barrier against alpha.  But if inhaled or ingested the soft tissue is susceptible to it and it can mess you up.  Tritium is another alpha radiation source which is used in gun sights, safe to wear on your hip for years but don't eat it.  So when grinding it you should wear respiratory ppe.  There are specific alpha radiation detectors.  I use to walk around with several types of small detectors that are used for nuclear accidents or disasters and it was interesting to see what sets them off.   There are many sources of radiation that we are exposed to every day but I would prefer to minimize my exposure when possible.  That's my .02.Use your best judgment and weigh your risk.Ben
Reply:I've been experimenting with tungsten these past few weeks also... have a good amount of 2% Thor, but I picked up from 1.5% Lanth recently and it seems to weld good and hold a better tip on aluminum. With that said... I was looking for 2% Lanth, but (2) LWS only had 1.5% Lanth... is there that much of a difference? Should I keep looking for it.Oh, for grinding. I picked up a 4 inch diamond sharpening blade from Harbor Freight for afew bucks and use it on a hand grinder. Not sure if this is the best idea... but it works great!
Reply:Somewhere I have seen a post stating the 1.5% lanthanated holds shape and avoids splitting better than 2%.
Reply:Bananas are radioactive. I get stomach aches if I eat them  without ice cream or milk.On the topic of Tig tungsten, I worked at a place that kept tungsten locked up. When needed, it had to be weighed and logged before and after use. The reason was; we didnt want tungsten contamination in the titanium. Lights had to be double protected also as a broken light bulb has enough tungsten to contaminate a 10,000 pound Ti ingot. Well maybe not completely but it would be contamination and possibly cause a failure to an airplane engine or wherever it got used (golf clubs). BTW, I unfortunately never got to TIG there. We had several Tiggers for that and I was always busy anyhow.
Reply:'Taint don't bother me none........zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:In my opinion, the acetone used to prep the work for Tig is worse than grinding red tungsten. I just dont like acetone and the migrains tho.
Reply:Originally Posted by HT2-4956...they eventually  tracked it down to one of the berthing compartments where some one had dropped and broke a watch open that had a dial face painted with Radium.  It was very minute amounts of this Radium paint that had gotten tracked around the ship that caused the incident.
Reply:For all ferrous metals I prefer red thoriated. I feel it starts, welds and holds up best. For the little aluminum I've tig welded I've used strictly pure tungsten balled.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveRemember to point the tip down when grinding (pointed up it can catch the wheel and shatter and/or go through your hand).I point mine up too, in fact just to prove the point I went from the down position and ground while turning the tungsten to the up position and never once did it grab. Many many years now I have been grinding my tung pointing up and never ever once has it grabbed.
Reply:Originally Posted by kingneroI keep them pointed upwards (and I pay very close attention),pointing up, the tip won't overheat (otherwise you're grinding all your heat into the tip, and cause oxidation on the tungsten).
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonI am trying to envision grinding heat into the tungsten.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThat's just another myth.I had a student PROVE IT with a geiger counter.Zero reading..Took same geiger counter to the filament in a Coleman gas lantern and all sorts of warning bells went off....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterREAD THIS!http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...iated-Tungsten...zap!
Reply:If you grind heat into your Tungsten, you can weld at lower amps.  That was a joke.  Don't even know why I said it really, just popped into my head...-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:kid,I think I need to disagree with you on that.   For all practical purposes a "rad" and a "Rem" (Radiation Equivalent Man) are the same thing.  They both represent the same quantity of released ionizing radiation.    For occupational exposure situations you're almost always talking about millirems and millirems /hr.     Originally Posted by welding_kidyikes yet again, where do people get this info from, cereal box???i read the info on this link and its not accurate"1 rad = 1 rem" ???? nope, sure doesnt.rem dose = rad dose x QF x other modifying factorsand just to note, i went to school for Nuclear Engineering.
Reply:Originally Posted by HT2-4956kid,I think I need to disagree with you on that.   For all practical purposes a "rad" and a "Rem" (Radiation Equivalent Man) are the same thing.  They both represent the same quantity of released ionizing radiation.    For occupational exposure situations you're almost always talking about millirems and millirems /hr.
Reply:Originally Posted by handtpipelineIf you grind heat into your Tungsten, you can weld at lower amps.  That was a joke.  Don't even know why I said it really, just popped into my head...
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveThat's funny - and I'll laugh even more if I see someone quote it later on another website You've started a twenty year long urban myth - how's it feel to about to be famous?
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveThat's funny - and I'll laugh even more if I see someone quote it later on another website You've started a twenty year long urban myth - how's it feel to about to be famous?
Reply:Originally Posted by welding_kidsimply correct the man, no need to twist the slip-up into something other than what it is..........just as i have tried to correct the info provided via that link, which is wrong info. but funny, i will probably see "1 REM = 1 RAD" on other sites because someone saw that here..... how fast bs info spreads thanks to internet and people who just dont understand it.
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelderwell start laughing dave, it's already on mr tig's website
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveHe made a joke and so did I.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonI am trying to envision grinding heat into the tungsten.
Reply:Originally Posted by kingneroOK, being dutch, sometimes I don't express myself well enough. Pointing down: the tip gets red hot. heat cannot escape, and stays in the tip. Tip gets black (= oxidation).Pointing up: heat goes downwards, into the larger part of the tungsten. Tip does not get red hot.
Reply:Originally Posted by kingneroOK, being dutch, sometimes I don't express myself well enough. Pointing down: the tip gets red hot. heat cannot escape, and stays in the tip. Tip gets black (= oxidation).Pointing up: heat goes downwards, into the larger part of the tungsten. Tip does not get red hot.
Reply:the correct method for grinding tungsten (all welding books mention this, as well as numerous welding publications by vendors and universities) is to have direction of grind into the length of tungsten and not away from the tip.
Reply:Welding kid - I've seen a bunch of those diagrams, all look pretty much like the one you show - I just happen to do it the other way.  I won't try to prove my way is more correct, it's just how I do it.On a side note: I find it interesting that wheel direction is an often debated/discussed topic for sharpening wood working tools as well.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Without having seen any particular documentation I think of it this way:As the grinding material comes in contact with the tungsten it starts to increase its temperature until it is no longer in contact.So if you grind into the tip the surface of the grinding material has the lowest temperature as it contacts the tip gradually heating up due to friction and it reaches its highest temperature at the end of the cone where you have the more mass and thus greater ability to dissipate heat into the rest of the tungsten.If you do the grinding away from the tip then the opposite applies thus overheating the tip.
Reply:Originally Posted by welding_kidthe correct method for grinding tungsten (all welding books mention this, as well as numerous welding publications by vendors and universities) is to have direction of grind into the length of tungsten and not away from the tip.
Reply:I put mine in a cordless drill then do it as pictured.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawI put mine in a cordless drill then do it as pictured.
Reply:the pic shown is for diamond wheel, but obvious safety hazard if your are holding tungsten in bare hands. a big yikes if the wheel grabs the tip and flings the tungsten at you, or worse, pushes the other end through your hand.i guess the best way is via a real tungsten grinding machine and i believe they too grind the way the pic shows, i never saw one that pulls the work into the tool. Originally Posted by shovelonI do a lot of things backwards, including banning my crew from grinding per your sketch. The liability from allowing someone to injure them self is to great IMO. In fact I won't use anything other than a belt sander.
Reply:Originally Posted by welding_kidthe pic shown is for diamond wheel, but obvious safety hazard if your are holding tungsten in bare hands. a big yikes if the wheel grabs the tip and flings the tungsten at you, or worse, pushes the other end through your hand.i guess the best way is via a real tungsten grinding machine and i believe they too grind the way the pic shows, i never saw one that pulls the work into the tool.i think there's another safety issue as to why the pic shows the direction of wheel the way it is, possibly so that you dont have the wheel suck in the piece into the spinning wheel.... this is likely much more dangerous situation. so in retrospect, you might be causing more hazard than if they did it the "right" way ??